Soooooooo, if I work on agency rates at say £7.50ph, and the company I have been working at pays thier workers £7.00ph, would I be expected to take a drop of 50p per hour after 12 weeks?
Darby Flyer:
Soooooooo, if I work on agency rates at say £7.50ph, and the company I have been working at pays thier workers £7.00ph, would I be expected to take a drop of 50p per hour after 12 weeks?
My sentiments exactly, I earn way more than the employed @ various places I go into, AND, I take more holidays aswell [when it suits], where do i stand ■■?
I have been offered a couple of jobs @ regular customers, as they are in a panic, and seem to be clueless about the situation.
It looks to me, as a way of getting the agency rates DOWN, just an observation 
On the brightside, It could go the way of the WTD, little or no interest from anybody, as long as you use POA correctly 
Stanley Mitchell:
It looks to me, as a way of getting the agency rates DOWN, just an observation
What a stupid comment! That’s not the point of the regulation at all…the point of it is to force companies to start employing full time staff and start paying pensions and so on so forth instead of saving millions by using staff they can get rid of in an instant…
Sainsbury’s drivers at Basingstoke are on almost £15…I’m only on £10 so my rates will be going up a lot!
And here’s the beauty of agency work…if you don’t like the work, move on! Why don’t half the people on here have the ability to think for themselves?..if your wages are going to go down, stay there for 11 weeks and then go somewhere else for at least 7 weeks, that way they can’t drop your rates. If every agency driver done this then agencies and companies would have no choice but to pay good rates for agency staff because otherwise, they wouldn’t have staff to put anywhere…but as always, I can guarantee it’ll be drivers that let themselves down by accepting crap!
Good in theory, but I know of at least one local agency that is going to start taking on drivers only on S.E basis, as the guy who runs it says, it’s a no-brainer - he isn’t saddled with the new rules and he saves on having to pay NI etc. As far as he’s concerned the government has no intention of looking at the bogus S.E side of agency work so why should he worry…
tallyman:
Good in theory, but I know of at least one local agency that is going to start taking on drivers only on S.E basis, as the guy who runs it says, it’s a no-brainer - he isn’t saddled with the new rules and he saves on having to pay NI etc. As far as he’s concerned the government has no intention of looking at the bogus S.E side of agency work so why should he worry…
Self employed drivers are actually covered by the regulations…so he’ll have a fun time with that one 
tallyman:
Good in theory, but I know of at least one local agency that is going to start taking on drivers only on S.E basis, as the guy who runs it says, it’s a no-brainer - he isn’t saddled with the new rules and he saves on having to pay NI etc. As far as he’s concerned the government has no intention of looking at the bogus S.E side of agency work so why should he worry…
Don’t sign with that agency then - or if you do, tell them what your rates are and make sure they are comparable…
Adam_Mc:
Stanley Mitchell:
It looks to me, as a way of getting the agency rates DOWN, just an observationWhat a stupid comment! That’s not the point of the regulation at all…the point of it is to force companies to start employing full time staff and start paying pensions and so on so forth instead of saving millions by using staff they can get rid of in an instant…
Sainsbury’s drivers at Basingstoke are on almost £15…I’m only on £10 so my rates will be going up a lot!
And here’s the beauty of agency work…if you don’t like the work, move on! Why don’t half the people on here have the ability to think for themselves?..if your wages are going to go down, stay there for 11 weeks and then go somewhere else for at least 7 weeks, that way they can’t drop your rates. If every agency driver done this then agencies and companies would have no choice but to pay good rates for agency staff because otherwise, they wouldn’t have staff to put anywhere…but as always, I can guarantee it’ll be drivers that let themselves down by accepting crap!
Why is it a stupid comment ■■?
As I added, “Just an observation”…as I am a bit older than you,and, as I have been involved in “logistics” @ both ends for over 34 years, AND, as I have to deal with decision makers on a daily basis, and not, ■■■■■■■■ driver ■■■■■■ my observation is just that.
Think / Listen / Watch, it works wonders in this game, I really do hope I am wrong, I really do 
Stanley Mitchell:
Adam_Mc:
Stanley Mitchell:
It looks to me, as a way of getting the agency rates DOWN, just an observationWhat a stupid comment! That’s not the point of the regulation at all…the point of it is to force companies to start employing full time staff and start paying pensions and so on so forth instead of saving millions by using staff they can get rid of in an instant…
Sainsbury’s drivers at Basingstoke are on almost £15…I’m only on £10 so my rates will be going up a lot!
And here’s the beauty of agency work…if you don’t like the work, move on! Why don’t half the people on here have the ability to think for themselves?..if your wages are going to go down, stay there for 11 weeks and then go somewhere else for at least 7 weeks, that way they can’t drop your rates. If every agency driver done this then agencies and companies would have no choice but to pay good rates for agency staff because otherwise, they wouldn’t have staff to put anywhere…but as always, I can guarantee it’ll be drivers that let themselves down by accepting crap!
Why is it a stupid comment ■■?
As I added, “Just an observation”…as I am a bit older than you,and, as I have been involved in “logistics” @ both ends for over 34 years, AND, as I have to deal with decision makers on a daily basis, and not, [zb] driver [zb], my observation is just that.
Think / Listen / Watch, it works wonders in this game, I really do hope I am wrong, I really do
lol Experience is not a replacement for actually being right…loads of people play this whole “I’ve been doing this for over 100 years and blah blah blah” but it doesn’t count for anything unless you are correct…I’ve seen loads of guys come and try to tell me the rules and regs and stuff and then pointed out the correct rules, some of which are the basic 4.5 hours and the sort. As I said…depending on where you work, this new agency law is brilliant. Why would the government bring in a law such as this to purposely bring down the rates?..if they done that then they’d get less tax from you…and they wouldn’t want that now would they?
Adam_Mc:
jesus christ guys…I’ll give you all the general low down shall I, since you’re all so useless yourselves (except colin)From October 1st, the new Agency Workers Directive comes into force and states that after 12 weeks work at a company doing the same job, you’re entitled to the same pay and conditions as an employed member of staff…this IS NOT retrospective…meaning that EVERYONES first week of their 12 weeks starts on Oct 1st regardless if you’ve already been working there 2 days or 10 years.
In order to qualify for a weeks work, you actually only need to do a ‘few hours’ of work in a week.
For those who keep saying “we’ll be sent somewhere else for a day and our time will be reset”…WRONG…in order for your time to be reset, you have to of been vacant from that company/position for at least 6 weeks. So this means that if for instance, you’re given an 11 week contract and then sent away for 5 weeks and return, you still retain your previous 11 weeks, and just one shift automatically qualifies you for the minimum “12 weeks” necessary to get the same pay.
“What if they give me 11 weeks of work, then send me somewhere else for 7 weeks, then back to the first place for 11 weeks and just keep repeating this?”…Well, the regulations are very clear that this is illegal. If a pattern emerges, then a temporary agency worker now has the right to take the company to an employment tribunal for non-compliance of the regulations.
To make sense of this “entitled to the same pay”, this merely means you’re entitled to the same hourly equivalent pay…Sainsbury’s drivers at Basingstoke are on 36k pa for a 48 hour week, which works out at roughly £14.50ph…so if I do 1 shift a week for them, that doesn’t mean I’m entitled to 36k pa for one days work a week…I’ll be entitled to £14.50ph.
Also, its worth noting that you can gain “multiple entitlements”…for instance, if from Monday to Friday, every week, you work for 5 different companies (1 company per day) you actually build up the 12 weeks with all 5 companies at the same time.I hope this has cleared some stuff up for you all…if you have any questions I’ll try my best to answer them. But this is where I think the problem with this law lies…DRIVERS themselves! This law is very well structured to our benefit…but I fear that drivers won’t stand up for themselves when companies try to flout it!
Very good post Adam. But i don’t agree that problems will lie with drivers. As with any regulations most of us take notice of the gaffers, and thats where the problems will lie.
Adam_Mc:
Stanley Mitchell:
Adam_Mc:
Stanley Mitchell:
It looks to me, as a way of getting the agency rates DOWN, just an observationWhat a stupid comment! That’s not the point of the regulation at all…the point of it is to force companies to start employing full time staff and start paying pensions and so on so forth instead of saving millions by using staff they can get rid of in an instant…
Sainsbury’s drivers at Basingstoke are on almost £15…I’m only on £10 so my rates will be going up a lot!
And here’s the beauty of agency work…if you don’t like the work, move on! Why don’t half the people on here have the ability to think for themselves?..if your wages are going to go down, stay there for 11 weeks and then go somewhere else for at least 7 weeks, that way they can’t drop your rates. If every agency driver done this then agencies and companies would have no choice but to pay good rates for agency staff because otherwise, they wouldn’t have staff to put anywhere…but as always, I can guarantee it’ll be drivers that let themselves down by accepting crap!
Why is it a stupid comment ■■?
As I added, “Just an observation”…as I am a bit older than you,and, as I have been involved in “logistics” @ both ends for over 34 years, AND, as I have to deal with decision makers on a daily basis, and not, [zb] driver [zb], my observation is just that.
Think / Listen / Watch, it works wonders in this game, I really do hope I am wrong, I really do
lol Experience is not a replacement for actually being right…loads of people play this whole “I’ve been doing this for over 100 years and blah blah blah” but it doesn’t count for anything unless you are correct…I’ve seen loads of guys come and try to tell me the rules and regs and stuff and then pointed out the correct rules, some of which are the basic 4.5 hours and the sort. As I said…depending on where you work, this new agency law is brilliant. Why would the government bring in a law such as this to purposely bring down the rates?..if they done that then they’d get less tax from you…and they wouldn’t want that now would they?
You still have`nt answered my question, why is my observation stupid ■■?
I havent at anytime mentioned the government wanting to quash agency rates, I certainly havent mentioned the tax take being a problem to anybody, MY observation is that a lot of the multi nationals “could / may” use this legilisation for their own ends, I.E. bringing agency rates down.
Read my lips, it is an observation, I have had a few things said to me “off the record”, by individuals who buy in hundreds of drivers per week, their HQ interpretation of this law, is looking a lot different to yours or mine.
And, you took my comment out of context, the rest of what I said agreed with you…
And,… I agree with you about 100 years of 80ll0x
Talking to a girl last night who is the area Manager for Industrial Temps agency here in NI and has been round the agency scene for a good few years.
She says that what will happen here in NI on 1st Dec when the AWD becomes law is that her agency at least are looking at offering full time employment contracts (part time if wanted) to its contracted drivers. 
I don’t know if this will allow them to circumvent the AWD but she did say that this would have to allow fully paid holidays AND some kind of redundancy package if worked slacked off say during the slow Jan/Feb/March months. 
Might be a good thing but I’m not so sure 
Last week I registered with an agency in Leicester and said I wanted to be PAYE.
But the wages are paid through a third party and this costs about £22 per wage which is a lot for one 8 hour shift, with the same cost for say 60 hours over 6 days.
The wages firm used is usually one that also deals with limited company drivers
This must be a new category of driver, so we have… /self employed - ltd comp/PAYE/and now semi-self employed.
So the driver agency cannot be paying any national insurance or pension contribution etc, not sure about holiday pay.
Stanley Mitchell:
Adam_Mc:
Stanley Mitchell:
It looks to me, as a way of getting the agency rates DOWN, just an observationWhat a stupid comment! That’s not the point of the regulation at all…the point of it is to force companies to start employing full time staff and start paying pensions and so on so forth instead of saving millions by using staff they can get rid of in an instant…
Sainsbury’s drivers at Basingstoke are on almost £15…I’m only on £10 so my rates will be going up a lot!
And here’s the beauty of agency work…if you don’t like the work, move on! Why don’t half the people on here have the ability to think for themselves?..if your wages are going to go down, stay there for 11 weeks and then go somewhere else for at least 7 weeks, that way they can’t drop your rates. If every agency driver done this then agencies and companies would have no choice but to pay good rates for agency staff because otherwise, they wouldn’t have staff to put anywhere…but as always, I can guarantee it’ll be drivers that let themselves down by accepting crap!
Why is it a stupid comment ■■?
As I added, “Just an observation”…as I am a bit older than you,and, as I have been involved in “logistics” @ both ends for over 34 years, AND, as I have to deal with decision makers on a daily basis, and not, [zb] driver [zb], my observation is just that.
Think / Listen / Watch, it works wonders in this game, I really do hope I am wrong, I really do
Actually I have to agree with Adam_MC - what a stupid comment !!!
Stanley Mitchell:
Adam_Mc:
Stanley Mitchell:
Adam_Mc:
Stanley Mitchell:
It looks to me, as a way of getting the agency rates DOWN, just an observationWhat a stupid comment! That’s not the point of the regulation at all…the point of it is to force companies to start employing full time staff and start paying pensions and so on so forth instead of saving millions by using staff they can get rid of in an instant…
Sainsbury’s drivers at Basingstoke are on almost £15…I’m only on £10 so my rates will be going up a lot!
And here’s the beauty of agency work…if you don’t like the work, move on! Why don’t half the people on here have the ability to think for themselves?..if your wages are going to go down, stay there for 11 weeks and then go somewhere else for at least 7 weeks, that way they can’t drop your rates. If every agency driver done this then agencies and companies would have no choice but to pay good rates for agency staff because otherwise, they wouldn’t have staff to put anywhere…but as always, I can guarantee it’ll be drivers that let themselves down by accepting crap!
Why is it a stupid comment ■■?
As I added, “Just an observation”…as I am a bit older than you,and, as I have been involved in “logistics” @ both ends for over 34 years, AND, as I have to deal with decision makers on a daily basis, and not, [zb] driver [zb], my observation is just that.
Think / Listen / Watch, it works wonders in this game, I really do hope I am wrong, I really do
lol Experience is not a replacement for actually being right…loads of people play this whole “I’ve been doing this for over 100 years and blah blah blah” but it doesn’t count for anything unless you are correct…I’ve seen loads of guys come and try to tell me the rules and regs and stuff and then pointed out the correct rules, some of which are the basic 4.5 hours and the sort. As I said…depending on where you work, this new agency law is brilliant. Why would the government bring in a law such as this to purposely bring down the rates?..if they done that then they’d get less tax from you…and they wouldn’t want that now would they?
You still have`nt answered my question, why is my observation stupid ■■?
I have
nt at anytime mentioned the government wanting to quash agency rates, I certainly havent mentioned the tax take being a problem to anybody, MY observation is that a lot of the multi nationals “could / may” use this legilisation for their own ends, I.E. bringing agency rates down.Read my lips, it is an observation, I have had a few things said to me “off the record”, by individuals who buy in hundreds of drivers per week, their HQ interpretation of this law, is looking a lot different to yours or mine.
And, you took my comment out of context, the rest of what I said agreed with you…
And,… I agree with you about 100 years of 80ll0x
Stupid comment number two !!!
driver2012:
Last week I registered with an agency in Leicester and said I wanted to be PAYE.
But the wages are paid through a third party and this costs about £22 per wage which is a lot for one 8 hour shift, with the same cost for say 60 hours over 6 days.
The wages firm used is usually one that also deals with limited company drivers
This must be a new category of driver, so we have… /self employed - ltd comp/PAYE/and now semi-self employed.
So the driver agency cannot be paying any national insurance or pension contribution etc, not sure about holiday pay.
Seems to be Umbrella sort of company
MisterStrood:
Stanley Mitchell:
Adam_Mc:
Stanley Mitchell:
It looks to me, as a way of getting the agency rates DOWN, just an observationWhat a stupid comment! That’s not the point of the regulation at all…the point of it is to force companies to start employing full time staff and start paying pensions and so on so forth instead of saving millions by using staff they can get rid of in an instant…
Sainsbury’s drivers at Basingstoke are on almost £15…I’m only on £10 so my rates will be going up a lot!
And here’s the beauty of agency work…if you don’t like the work, move on! Why don’t half the people on here have the ability to think for themselves?..if your wages are going to go down, stay there for 11 weeks and then go somewhere else for at least 7 weeks, that way they can’t drop your rates. If every agency driver done this then agencies and companies would have no choice but to pay good rates for agency staff because otherwise, they wouldn’t have staff to put anywhere…but as always, I can guarantee it’ll be drivers that let themselves down by accepting crap!
Why is it a stupid comment ■■?
As I added, “Just an observation”…as I am a bit older than you,and, as I have been involved in “logistics” @ both ends for over 34 years, AND, as I have to deal with decision makers on a daily basis, and not, [zb] driver [zb], my observation is just that.
Think / Listen / Watch, it works wonders in this game, I really do hope I am wrong, I really do
Actually I have to agree with Adam_MC - what a stupid comment !!!
Yawn…
I hope im wrong, but, as Ive said, those who make the “big” decisions are quite adapt at using the law to their own advantage, just an observation
MisterStrood:
Stanley Mitchell:
Adam_Mc:
Stanley Mitchell:
Adam_Mc:
Stanley Mitchell:
It looks to me, as a way of getting the agency rates DOWN, just an observationWhat a stupid comment! That’s not the point of the regulation at all…the point of it is to force companies to start employing full time staff and start paying pensions and so on so forth instead of saving millions by using staff they can get rid of in an instant…
Sainsbury’s drivers at Basingstoke are on almost £15…I’m only on £10 so my rates will be going up a lot!
And here’s the beauty of agency work…if you don’t like the work, move on! Why don’t half the people on here have the ability to think for themselves?..if your wages are going to go down, stay there for 11 weeks and then go somewhere else for at least 7 weeks, that way they can’t drop your rates. If every agency driver done this then agencies and companies would have no choice but to pay good rates for agency staff because otherwise, they wouldn’t have staff to put anywhere…but as always, I can guarantee it’ll be drivers that let themselves down by accepting crap!
Why is it a stupid comment ■■?
As I added, “Just an observation”…as I am a bit older than you,and, as I have been involved in “logistics” @ both ends for over 34 years, AND, as I have to deal with decision makers on a daily basis, and not, [zb] driver [zb], my observation is just that.
Think / Listen / Watch, it works wonders in this game, I really do hope I am wrong, I really do
lol Experience is not a replacement for actually being right…loads of people play this whole “I’ve been doing this for over 100 years and blah blah blah” but it doesn’t count for anything unless you are correct…I’ve seen loads of guys come and try to tell me the rules and regs and stuff and then pointed out the correct rules, some of which are the basic 4.5 hours and the sort. As I said…depending on where you work, this new agency law is brilliant. Why would the government bring in a law such as this to purposely bring down the rates?..if they done that then they’d get less tax from you…and they wouldn’t want that now would they?
You still have`nt answered my question, why is my observation stupid ■■?
I have
nt at anytime mentioned the government wanting to quash agency rates, I certainly havent mentioned the tax take being a problem to anybody, MY observation is that a lot of the multi nationals “could / may” use this legilisation for their own ends, I.E. bringing agency rates down.Read my lips, it is an observation, I have had a few things said to me “off the record”, by individuals who buy in hundreds of drivers per week, their HQ interpretation of this law, is looking a lot different to yours or mine.
And, you took my comment out of context, the rest of what I said agreed with you…
And,… I agree with you about 100 years of 80ll0x
Stupid comment number two !!!
Yawn # 2
Adam_Mc:
jesus christ guys…I’ll give you all the general low down shall I, since you’re all so useless yourselves (except colin)From October 1st, the new Agency Workers Directive comes into force and states that after 12 weeks work at a company doing the same job, you’re entitled to the same pay and conditions as an employed member of staff…this IS NOT retrospective…meaning that EVERYONES first week of their 12 weeks starts on Oct 1st regardless if you’ve already been working there 2 days or 10 years.
In order to qualify for a weeks work, you actually only need to do a ‘few hours’ of work in a week.
For those who keep saying “we’ll be sent somewhere else for a day and our time will be reset”…WRONG…in order for your time to be reset, you have to of been vacant from that company/position for at least 6 weeks. So this means that if for instance, you’re given an 11 week contract and then sent away for 5 weeks and return, you still retain your previous 11 weeks, and just one shift automatically qualifies you for the minimum “12 weeks” necessary to get the same pay.
“What if they give me 11 weeks of work, then send me somewhere else for 7 weeks, then back to the first place for 11 weeks and just keep repeating this?”…Well, the regulations are very clear that this is illegal. If a pattern emerges, then a temporary agency worker now has the right to take the company to an employment tribunal for non-compliance of the regulations.
To make sense of this “entitled to the same pay”, this merely means you’re entitled to the same hourly equivalent pay…Sainsbury’s drivers at Basingstoke are on 36k pa for a 48 hour week, which works out at roughly £14.50ph…so if I do 1 shift a week for them, that doesn’t mean I’m entitled to 36k pa for one days work a week…I’ll be entitled to £14.50ph.
Also, its worth noting that you can gain “multiple entitlements”…for instance, if from Monday to Friday, every week, you work for 5 different companies (1 company per day) you actually build up the 12 weeks with all 5 companies at the same time.I hope this has cleared some stuff up for you all…if you have any questions I’ll try my best to answer them. But this is where I think the problem with this law lies…DRIVERS themselves! This law is very well structured to our benefit…but I fear that drivers won’t stand up for themselves when companies try to flout it!
Got a query,
Can a ‘few hours’ be defined?
I am contracted to attend 40 hours a week + O/T, start at 8 and finish at 5 (minus hours lunch), so on your ‘few hours’ an agency can come in do 2 days then after 12 weeks gets on the same pay and bonus as me?
as i see it
you do a shift be it wether its 2-4-6 or 8 hrs for company a once a wk for 12 weeks, you are then entitled to nearly the same entitlement as the regular employees.
i would assume that for those that only cover a shift every couple of weeks or so would eventually accumulate the “12 weeks”. but that is just an assumption and we all know they dont make prizes 
loopyjuice:
as i see it
you do a shift be it wether its 2-4-6 or 8 hrs for company a once a wk for 12 weeks, you are then entitled to nearly the same entitlement as the regular employees.
i would assume that for those that only cover a shift every couple of weeks or so would eventually accumulate the “12 weeks”. but that is just an assumption and we all know they dont make prizes
Cant see that going down too well with the perms.