Need advice on overtime

[montana_man]

earlier tobytyke:
I’m kinda caught in about 10 minds how to proceed with my future

I would continue considering carefully

and then tobytyke:
Is there any particular sectors of the industry i should avoid ? eg tippers ? fridges ? etc…I suppose to start with i could do with a nice steady job to concentrate on driving, not loading etc…but i was also thinking it might be worth getting into a growing market ie recycling etc…

apparently all of the above

Although I suspect by your attitude you may have a good future in transport driving one of these…

[Lasurazes]

tobytyke:
Jonboy yer talking crap - yea if your on a job and it goes ■■■■ up thats life, but if his shifts over and jobs done its bye bye if hes got other plans. a decent boss will accept that im sure.

in pmacs post he didnt state that his shift was over. also did he inform his boss that he wanted a decent finsh in advance as he had plans. i take plenty of ■■■■ in my job. but if i infrom the gaffer i need a early (like tueday to take the wife for a scan to derby) they well acomadate this and try there best to get me finished.(scottish night out run in tuesday)

swings and roundabouts.

by the way i talk crap for england

jon

[Lucy]

Good luck Toby. Fortunately for you we’ll all still be here to pick up the pieces when you calm down and learn the hard way. Not that we’d have any idea about the industry, after all, we’re only in it.

[dieseldave]

tobytyke:
Diesel Dave & Lucy you can think what you like

It’s not a question of anybody “thinking” what they like. As I wrote in my last post on this topic, it is a question of what is written in the contract of employment. Below is a quote from the relevant STATUTE LAW on the subject. The quote is an extract from the list of items legally required to be included in an employment contract:

The Employment Rights Act 1996 s.1(4)(c) [ERA 1996]

(c) any terms and conditions relating to hours of work (including any terms and conditions relating to normal working hours),

tobytyke:
but this guy is thinking along the right lines,

I’ve quoted my source for saying that it’s a matter of contractual arrangement. What is your quote for your comment

tobytyke:
its all about fair & reasonable,

Yes, it’s all about fair and reasonable, PROVIDED that it’s in the contract in the first place. This industry has been around for decades, so most wise employers have defined “fair and reasonable” in the context of THIS industry. It is ALSO established law that “custom and practice” are taken into account when an Employment Tribunal considers the fairness of a dismissal under ERA 1996 s.98.

To sum that up, a driver refusing overtime renders him/herself liable to an employer’s disciplinary procedures, up to and including dismissal, for refusing overtime, if it’s in the contract. Those are the rules, so if you won’t abide by them, your hard earned cash spent on training would be wasted, because you’d have extreme difficulty holding down a job. It’s hard enough for newbies at the best of times, but a newbie with an attitude problem won’t last long- I guarantee it (BTW you need a year of service to gain protection against an unfair dismissal. Your present attitude would come to the attention of an employer in a lot less than a year, so whilst I too wish you luck, I have a feeling that you’ll need it.)

Can you now accept that the haulage industry’s take on overtime might be at variance to your experience in any other industry There is very good reason for this to be the case.

I’ve seen your posts in other forums sometimes asking for advice, which many people on here would gladly offer, but doesn’t it seem strange to you that somebody so new to the industry would offer such entrenched comments, without offering any factual or legal basis, on this topic

Same question again, by what qualification/knowledge/experience in the industry do you back up your views

I’m ALWAYS prepared to be wrong, are you
You mentioned “fair and reasonable” not a bad phrase to use, but it also applies to this discussion. Fair and reasonable people on here are speaking/writing from experience/legal basis/qualification and would be prepared to back up their comments somehow. It is for you to decide whether you wish to talk or listen or discuss, but please consider engaging the brain first…

[tobytyke]

Basically a few of you have hit the nail on the head - its a contract issue and no doubt your all on similiar but different contracts so thats his particular answer.

As i said earlier if a job goes ■■■■ up for whatever reason thats life, its out of your employers control, you deal with it, and no i know virtually nothing about the transport sector full stop, the thread poster doesn’t state end of shift but it was obvious he must have been near the end of it for him not too do the O/T as he had arrangements with his family, which suggests he had completed his basic hours more or less.

Finally Montana man, u can trawl through posts that are maybe 5 to 6 weeks or so old and use as many quotations as you like - what are you achieving ? I was new then, still am new, and for other newbys looking in it may well put them off typing what their thinking or really wanting to ask, as to most of us it’s the unknown, where as to the most of you it’s like tying a shoelace.

PS - Jonboy i like your style - no offence to you in your comment really just had enough of bully boy bosses.

[flying_fenman]

‘In this industry, you’re only finished when you close the cab door and are walking out to your car.’

This was the advice given to me by the guy who trained me up for my class 2 (that’s a C licence in today’s money )

Sound advice.

‘There’s only one constant in road transport - everything is always changing.’

More sound advice given to me from another old hand I know.

I had the advantage of this knowledge before entering the industry, so I had an idea (ish ) of what to expect.

Road transport is not a ‘normal’ job. You don’t get ‘normal’ working hours.

If you’ve arrived back after a ten hour shift, I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect to go home - far from it.

But I also don’t think that a driver doing two hours overtime without being asked previously is anything outrageous.

If I want to do anything on a specific date - I let our office know as soon as I can - even if it is only on the morning of the day I want to do it. And they always sort it out for me.

My contract states I am expected to do a ‘reasonable amount of overtime’. What this equates to differs from company to company, and from depot to depot within a company.

For me personally, I do two hours of overtime most days. I don’t have to, but this give a nice balance of home life and ching ching factor for me.

When I’m tramping, I have often done three 15s in a row ( - as will thousands of others across the country). I don’t mind this either because it allows a great amount of variation and freedom in my work - one huge part of the reason I like working in the industry.

I’m not having a go at anyone in particular, but I think all newbies should know that this is not, never was, and never will be a 9-5 job. People are attracted by the potential earnings - which are achievable with a bit of experience - but you have to put the hours in.

It has been said before that truck driving is more of a lifestyle than a job. Oh, how true this is.

[tobytyke]

No problem with that perception of the job fenman, i’m well used too 10 hrs plus O/T per week as it is for the last 10 years, like you say plan your life via your work, we dont know if Pmac knew too mention his plan or not, anyway topic exhausted lol i think.

[montana_man]

tobytyke:
Finally Montana man, u can trawl through posts that are maybe 5 to 6 weeks or so old and use as many quotations as you like - what are you achieving ?

Using your own words to save apparently wasting mine

tobytyke:
I was new then, still am new, and for other newbys looking in it may well put them off typing what their thinking or really wanting to ask, as to most of us it’s the unknown, where as to the most of you it’s like tying a shoelace

Of course given the huge amounts of time and encouragement we give to “newbees” ,because we have all been there,I would not be wishing to put anyone off. However to anyone “new then and still new” my advice would be to read, learn and ask. It would not be to then started spouting at other members with vastly more experience and then continue to show that in fact you had not researched the job properly.

I am all for new people in the industry as IMHO they may lack knowledge and experience but tend to, by way of compensation, carry a more professional attitude towards the job. I have lost count of the amount of posts I have made critising the persisting bad habits amongst the more experienced and bitter drivers on the road. IMHO the way forward for the industry is by positive encouragement and appropriate training of the up and coming “newbees” as it seems to be nigh on impossible to “teach old dogs new tricks” as it were. You will find that this industry is very unforgiving mostly Toby and I believe that to be again a problem of the “old boys” being protective of there positions and there ignorance.

It is a fact well known to anyone who knows me that I will spend all the time in the world with anyone who seeks advice or asks a question and should like you to feel this includes you. However as a glance of the forums will show we don’t tolerate fools gladly

and FYI best learn to understand sarcasm if your gonna last round here

[hammer]

Sorry was trying to be too clever for my own good, misread what you’d put. That bodes well for my CPC exam!!!

[montana_man]

hammer:
Sorry was trying to be too clever for my own good, misread what you’d put. That bodes well for my CPC exam!!!

Good luck by the way

[hammer]

montana man:

hammer:
Sorry was trying to be too clever for my own good, misread what you’d put. That bodes well for my CPC exam!!!

Good luck by the way

On present evidence - I’M GONNA NEED IT!

[dieseldave]

Montana man you beat me to it…. (only cos of intermittent internet connection and slow typing speed) but nevertheless true.

tobytyke:
Basically a few of you have hit the nail on the head - its a contract issue and no doubt your all on similiar but different contracts so thats his particular answer.

It seems you’ve changed your tune… That’s the exact opposite of your earlier comment. Now you’re telling us it’s a contract issue

tobytyke:
and no i know virtually nothing about the transport sector full stop

Well done, tobytyke that’s a very wise position to adopt. You’ve now given yourself an opportunity for learning.

tobytyke:
Finally Montana man, u can trawl through posts that are maybe 5 to 6 weeks or so old and use as many quotations as you like - what are you achieving ? I was new then, still am new

It’s good to see that you’re willing to concede that, but I feel that the comments that MM used are quotable, because they are your own words. We’re back to engaging the brain… If you honestly take your comments during that period as a whole, you might have come across as being confused/unsure. That’s fine if you’re new, but you might seem to others as totally unreasonable when in the next breath, you start telling us things like how our industry works Or even worse, your version of how you think it ought to work. Like I asked earlier, on what basis Please accept that there are reasons for everything.

tobytyke:
and for other newbees looking in it may well put them off typing what their thinking or really wanting to ask,

They tend to ask questions, whereas you tended to make statements. The way that some of them were written, you’d not left yourself a way out due to the language you’d used. That would also be the reason for the “U” turn above. Newbees need have no fear, I for one have all the time in the world for them. In fact, I teach them for most of my living these days.

On the question of language, my tip is to write something that ends with a question mark (?) that way you’re seeking advice, and you won’t appear to be spouting nonsense. You can easily say what you think, and your opinion is as valid as anybody’s, but if you use phrases like “is it” or “could it” or “I’d have thought that…” Then that would invite support and constructive comment, rather than people having to think of how to politely explain that you’re just plain wrong. I honestly feel that you have found a good place to learn, and that it will undoubtedly be to your benefit.

tobytyke:
to most of us it’s the unknown, where as to the most of you it’s like tying a shoelace.

As Lucy said “we’ll all still be here…” but now it seems that you might not have to learn the hard way after all. I am truly glad for you, because as the Borg said, “resistance is futile.” Our industry is the way it is, so the saying about the heat and the kitchen seems to apply here.

[reef]

dieseldave:
because as the Borg said, “resistance is futile.”

Well that figures…Your a bloody Trekkie (I wouldnt be at all surprised if you go trainspotting too)

beam me up snotty or what ever the irish fella’s name was.

here fishy fishy fishy

[dieseldave]

Reef:
Well that figures…Your a bloody Trekkie

Not quite. However, I will own up to having watched a couple of episodes.

Reef:
I wouldnt be at all surprised if you go trainspotting too)

That’s a fair observation, but I couldn’t help but see trains from my bedroom window as a small child.

I think you might agree with my point about resistance though- is there any point in any of us trying to change such things as the need for overtime and the way it can suddenly drop onto us?

BTW Reef, I think you spotted the same things as me in this topic, or was it the other one that tobytyke wrote,? Anyway, I feel that we both pointed him in the right direction

[reef]

And thats all we can hope to achieve in our cantankerous own way Dave, I reckon i’ve learnt more in the last two years of coming on here than i have in the last fifteen associated with transport, Thats got to say something hasn’t it

And if you can have a laugh whilst your learning all the better eh

[dieseldave]

Reef:
And thats all we can hope to achieve in our cantankerous own way Dave, I reckon i’ve learnt more in the last two years of coming on here than i have in the last fifteen associated with transport, Thats got to say something hasn’t it

And if you can have a laugh whilst your learning all the better eh

AGREED Reef, there’s some great minds on here, no question about it. In our own way, we all try our best, I’m sure.

The good thing about there being so many members (including us cantankerous types ) with such varying experiences, qualifications and geographic spread (buzzword = diversity) is that good advice/directions hints and tips are never far away.

I agree with your humour comment as well, but I’ve obviously spent far too much time studying, because I’ve noticed that I sometimes can’t switch off. Mind you, I do enjoy using my areas of expertise to help people. It’ll all come out in the wash though…

[pmac]

I was finnishing at 5pm on that very day he asked me to do o/t at about 4:50 and it wasnt driving o/t it was other little jobs but i had arranged to take my kids n wife swimming, i am not really gonna turn down o/t all the time i have done o/t since the matter, i think it was just a matter of 2 locking horns at the end of a hard day thx for all the info in this post anyway guys appreciate it.