Modern lorries

Juddian:
I’ve worked at a couple of places where the damage was extensive and regular.
Invariably it’s caused by a handful of incompetents, ironically within days of them starting us drivers have spotted what they are, and we’re usually right the trail of destruction isn’t far off, maybe management are a bit slow.

We drivers have no input whatsoever on the recruitment process, the wreckers in almost every case were not recommended by other drivers, one who caused repeated negligent damage to the specialist equipment was in fact put up by one of the supervisors, talk about own goals :unamused: , drivers recommended by other drivers tend to be of the better quality cos drivers in good jobs usually want the job to last :bulb:
For some reason though these wreckers don’t have any more punishment than a chat with one of the managers, just how bad does it have to get before they get rid of them.

Back on the cars there was one clown who had been around all the local outfits, trail of destruction in his wake everywhere he went, he was simply an idiot end of, but they kept taking him on :unamused:
Small outfit, owner i know as well as two of his really good drivers who i’d worked with before, he’d already asked those two lads about the clown, don’t touch him with a barge pole was the answer, then he asked me when we met up at the rdc site we nearly all worked out of, i told him the same.
His reply, ‘well everyone deserves another chance’, so took the bod on, within three weeks he’d had two brand new decent sized cars written off on the wagon, well there’s at £30k even 20 years ago.
What is it with some gaffers, why the bloody hell ask the opinion of people you presumably respect and then bloody ignore it.

I refused to train one bod up where i worked because literally he could not drive a wagon, terrified the hell out of me on the one day we went out, my then boss got the arse with me and trained him up himself (to prove a point i s’pose), full artic semi trailer car transporter with full size peak (yes you know the sort where the peak car goes out 15ft when you turn a corner), what could possibly go wrong i hear you ask… 6 weeks later stuffing it under a 14’6" bridge at 50mph fully loaded good enough?

One bloke, an older one too who i’d worked with years previously and no better then did no end of damage at the supermarket rdc i worked out of, ie pulling out too tight too soon from the bank, the rear overhang of the fridge he pulled out knocking the fridge beside it over (legs collapsing, fully loaded of course, domino alley) and ripping the rear frame off the one he was pulling.
Another time (there were numerous events from this bloke) there were two lanes at the gatehouse as you drove in, where security lads would come out and check the return seals, one day he flew in smashing the offside front overhang straight into the nsr corner of one in the offside lane narrowly missing crushing the security bod who was checking the seal at the time :open_mouth:
This bod really had such a high opinion of himself though.
Nothing done about him, but then the people in charge are only spending some bugger else’s money, not their own.
I used to make no end of overtime out of these wreckers, got on well with the lads in the on site workshops and they’d get me to ferry damaged wagons to the bodyshop and collecting repaired ones to bring back after my normal run.

All these were in the days of manual boxes, just to prove idiots ain’t a new thing, they’ve always been around, and then just as now it’s almost always managements fault for A employing them and B for not getting rid pronto when they prove to be regular wreckers.

What really ■■■■■■ me off though, is that those same manager types today who are frightened of disciplining and getting rid of the regular wreckers then do the classic and imho cowardly ‘‘one size fits all’’ shuffle.
They either issue a memo about damage and costs casting the blame on everyone (when its a small minority of culprits) tarring the vast majority of decent staff with the same brush, or it’s spend £thousands on monitoring equipment, now tell me what difference 20 driver facing cameras or any technical wizardry you could imagine would have made to the supermarket wrecker above, i’m buggered if i know.

None of us are perfect, we can all have a bad day and an event that all goes ■■■■ up, but invariably it’s a small band of tools doing 90% of the damage, and wherever they go they take that attitude with them.

Taking on known idiots seems to be the thing where I work, and the complete lack of real world training.

Why give someone a job, everyone knows he’s a clown except for the management, no hang on they know he’s a clown oh well see how it goes.

We have a large fleet 200+ drivers plus agency, every truck with the odd exception has the back of the cab stoved in, yet drivers are still told to get out and check the 5th wheel height, as if anyone ever does, another one how can you hit the steps? you sit directly above one of them and the other has a sensor with an audible alarm and 4 F****** mirrors ?.

I had a unit a while back showing a low water alarm, having a look for leaks and club plant pot have knocked the header tank off with another missed pin effort, anything short of assault or theft and you keep youre job.

Why not have a 1 year fixed contract then full time after if you prove yourself, pay a bit more which would cost nothing because the damage would go down and manage the job properly, you can park a truck up at the end of a shift with damage or defects and nobody says a word.

I told them to employ the chuckle brothers at least their incompetence would be entertaining.

Part of the reason for this deterioration should be ascribed to congestion: the rats in a box syndrome :open_mouth: . Even twenty years ago I used to notice the huge difference returning from the relatively quiet roads of France to the over-used roads here. Wherever you go in the world you see poor driving on congested roads. Which is why driving in Cairo is not for the faint-hearted (and also because you can bribe yourself through the test and there’s no motor insurance - mere details of course :laughing: ). Robert

TiredAndEmotional:

xichrisxi:
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Quick google of the latest hgv incidents where the driver was at fault and it resulted in a fatality,all the drivers are experienced drivers…maybe even ‘old school drivers’,Criticise new drivers all you want the facts show that most bad accidents are caused by those allegedly better more experienced drivers.

Well when you consider the average age of drivers is mid 50’s or so it could hardly be any other way. I see more than enough poor driving standards from professionals regardless of age.

How do you jump to the conclusion that ‘old’ driver means ‘old school’.There are plenty of new driver career changers out there who are no better than average at best car drivers and have no more background in driving trucks than later generation ones.

While even those of us who learn’t to drive trucks etc in the late 70’s/early 80’s would generally have been instructed in the same novice car driver style at least in regard to the approach to hazards,usually reliant on synchro boxes to compensate for the inability ( or lack of instruction ) to match road speed with conditions.

Which is arguably when the job started to be dumbed down regarding driving standards.It’s only after or,as in my case,even before that instruction whether we’d have learn’t better from the real ‘old school’ drivers most if not all of who are either long retired or long gone now.Together with the wish to ‘want’ to learn better which is what’s obviously missing from the new driver mindset regardless of ‘how’ ‘old’ they are.With comments like we wouldn’t want to drive something with a ‘crash’ box in it.Why when that will at least enforce a better more professional approach to hazards than novice style reliance on the brakes usually too late,then back on the accelerator usually too soon.

As Ive said it’s as likely that an old school driver will now be driving a car as a truck ‘should’ be driven as a bad car driver will be in charge of a truck.As Robert for once might agree.

Nobody is born with the innate ability to master the more difficult manual boxes/splitters etc you need to learn it. I’ve driven/crunched most of them back in the day before getting the hang of it. Actually a M A.N. 12 speed splitter on the column was the worst by far. Maybe I had a bad one. People who criticise newer drivers have short memories. Back in the day you did your learning and test on a tiny Ford D series or a Bedford TK with a 20’ trailer on. You had to be an idiot to fail. Test done in an hour and a half. Few of us would pass a modern test .
The main cause of problems these days is impatience. On another thread we’ve got regulars on here who see a red double Decker bus doing 35mph on an A road as a serious danger! What is dangerous about that? It doesn’t bode well for bikes, horses,tractors or indeed people who just aren’t comfortable about speed maybe due to some disability.

cheekymonkey:
On another thread we’ve got regulars on here who see a red double Decker bus doing 35mph on an A road as a serious danger! What is dangerous about that? It doesn’t bode well for bikes, horses,tractors or indeed people who just aren’t comfortable about speed maybe due to some disability.

It’s actually a 70 mph multi lane NSL dual carriageway ?.In which case the logic is the same as riding a bike,or a horse,or driving a tractor,or someone who isn’t ‘comfortable’ driving among 70 mph + traffic on a motorway.On that note I ‘could’ ‘legally’ ride my bike in lane 1 of the motorway class A3 but I’d be bleedin stupid to do it and I’d happily share some of the blame if something ran into me.Ironically the idea of refusing to drive an old bus that’s not capable of more than 35 mph on the motorway class A 47 or any other similar class road,as opposed to using the B1140 for example,let alone not riding a bike on the A3 to go to Guildford,is just common sense.

That has nothing to do with the fact that modern trucks definitely facilitate the most average of car drivers to drive 44 tonners when they are enough of a liability even behind the wheel of a car.

mike68:
I told them to employ the chuckle brothers at least their incompetence would be entertaining.

Too late mate, they’re on days for my lot,… along with Laurel and Hardy and Frank Spencer. :laughing:

cheekymonkey:
Back in the day you did your learning and test on a tiny Ford D series or a Bedford TK with a 20’ trailer on. You had to be an idiot to fail. Test done in an hour and a half. Few of us would pass a modern test .
.

That’s right, but then the day after the test, we had something like an ERF with a David Brown box, and no power steering loaded with 20 tons, and the keys chucked at us to just get on with it…chalk and cheese to the TK and D series.
Half of these sorry arsed tossers today can’t even drive (steer in comparison) a truck almost like a big bendy car with an automatic gearbox properly ffs :open_mouth: let alone something like that.

And I don’t agree with your theory of half of us not passing a modern test either, when you see some excuses for drivers that have managed to blag it.
I followed one prick in M5 Strensham just tonight, after the twunt cut right in on me after partly overtaking me. :smiling_imp: …my pet hate.
I told him what I thought of him, and he just sat there with a gormless look on his face, sat there in his ■■■■ hi viz :unamused: , as if I was ■■■■ stupid. (Ok I know I should have rose above it as a pro :blush: , but it really ■■■■ ■■■■■■ me off does that :smiling_imp: )

The fact that he apologised kind of diffused the situation. :smiley:

Another thing I’ve noticed is some 6 & 8 wheeler hiabs weighing 18 & 20 odd tonnes empty and the drivers drive them just as if they’re a normal empty flat Just because they’re empty and have got Ebs braking with no thought to the actual weight ,no wonder some are having front discs & pads at 12 weeks and melting the rear valve stem extensions !

Punchy Dan:
Another thing I’ve noticed is some 6 & 8 wheeler hiabs weighing 18 & 20 odd tonnes empty and the drivers drive them just as if they’re a normal empty flat Just because they’re empty and have got Ebs braking with no thought to the actual weight ,no wonder some are having front discs & pads at 12 weeks and melting the rear valve stem extensions !

It’s just as likely that they’d also be hammering the brakes when loaded.IE modern driving methods and modern trucks to facilitate it have created a change in driving style.Away from bringing the road speed down from a long way back then drop a gear or maybe two then let the engine braking slow it down,then drop another gear or two and same again until it’s at a decent slow speed to enter the hazard having minimised the use of the brakes and in the right gear to accelerate again if no need to stop.

As opposed to a typically modern amateurish all brakes and then let a synchro or an auto box sort out the resulting mess caused by the mismatched road speed to accelerate again.All done to suit the simplest of car driving methods and thereby maximise the driver supply potential.

I am 64 years old and have been driving trucks since 1975, I love the advancements made to ease the drivers job, my truck brakes if some idiot stops or gets in my way, it is computer controlled and I love it. I do however thinks if you need a sat nav to do the job, you need another line of work.

Re damage, at our place (employed) drivers have to pay the insurance excess for any damage now at 600eur, obviously if the damage is less than that amount and other parties (if any) agree then they pay to have the work done in house. Imo this couldnt be fairer and how it should be. Drivers tend to look after their trucks like their own anyway and we rarely have anyone leave so the T&C’s of employment seem acceptable. On the upside theres a bonus of 100eur p/m for no damage and most go all out to keep that bonus intact.
With employment terms like this careless damage would be wiped out, its the dont care attitude of some drivers, its not their property so why bother :confused:

I drove a DAF this week whilst my usual steed was at the truck Doctors, it was the first time I’d really used the auto brake/cruise thingymabob and as an experiment I entered to 40mph limit on the A1 near Brampton hut with the cruise set at 52mph and my foot covering the brake, it was quite a pleasant surprise to find the lorry slowing gradually and then maintains a safe gap to the vehicle in front with no input (apart from steering of course :wink: ) from me. Obviously that only works in traffic!

the maoster:
I drove a DAF this week whilst my usual steed was at the truck Doctors, it was the first time I’d really used the auto brake/cruise thingymabob and as an experiment I entered to 40mph limit on the A1 near Brampton hut with the cruise set at 52mph and my foot covering the brake, it was quite a pleasant surprise to find the lorry slowing gradually and then maintains a safe gap to the vehicle in front with no input (apart from steering of course :wink: ) from me. Obviously that only works in traffic!

Is that a newer one?
The ACC on my 65 plate leaves a lot to be desired. It tends to get to close to preceding vehicle (unless I set distance to greater separation) and then use service brakes, rather than slow gradually on engine brake.
Could get an “unaware” driver in trouble on hills too: following a vehicle downhill, it`ll use service brakes all the way down, instead of using gears and engine brake. I can imagine someone taught to use these controls, as part of some ill thought out company policy, in serious trouble with over heated brakes!

It was a 65 plate Franglais so basically the same as yours I’d imagine. I thought that on the roadworks experiment it performed quite well tbh. Although I only did around 400 miles over two days in it, perhaps living with it permanently might prove tiresome.

I set the gap to minimum as I found it to be too intrusive if set any higher. It did give me one “false” harsh braking though when the car in front was leaving via a slip road after overtaking me; I’d done the usual mental calculations and deemed that I didn’t need to come off the gas, but oh no, the truck wasn’t having any of that! Apart from that one occasion I was quite impressed overall.

Roadworks and “No Overtaking” sections on flattish roads, I do sometimes use the ACC.
Get a few trucks close together and what is a gentle slow down by the leader can be strong braking by the last one, if theyre all on ACC. Never be as a good as a good driver* reading the road well ahead, aware of upcoming junctions etc. Better than a muppet who cant keep a reasonable separation though.

  • Im sure thats all of us here!

Had an Actros the other night with it in. It somehow picked out an obstruction ahead on an empty motorway and braked for me… ACC turned off now

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Punchy Dan:

Olog Hai:
It’s painfully obvious that the standard of many lorry drivers is now no better than the average clown in a car. The reason for that is simple: They are car drivers, and they have somehow fluked their way into passing a couple of extra tests. No more, no less.

Them and their aggressive tailgating, their use of their vehicle as a weapon to intimidate others and their failure to grasp that a lorry should not be driven in the same manner as a car makes them serious accidents waiting to happen. The only reason we don’t see even more multi-hour motorway closures as a result of collisions involving trucks is thanks to those drivers out there who do have the ability to look further than five yards ahead of them and are able to think on behalf of the ever-growing bell-end element.

Then again, it’s hardly a surprise. Combine wages that are generally dreadful with an expectation of 60+ hours per week, a lack of any kind of entrance barrier, and trucks that as good as drive themselves, and it’s hardly a surprise that the job is now infested with bottom-of-the-barrel half-wits who would struggle to drive a greasy stick up a dog’s arse. I’m not against making the job easier by using automated gearboxes, high-power engines, steering that you can turn with one finger and all the anti-collision stuff that has appeared recently, but when it’s combined with all of the above, the results aren’t difficult to work out. That’s what we are seeing now.

gingerfold:
I was in the middle lane slowly overtaking an Italian registered artic when…

Slowly overtaking an LHD artic on a motorway in a car is crazy behaviour. Either get past him quickly and out of his way, or hang back for the same reason until you can scoot past. Doing anything else is asking for trouble.

Being as Gf was in a 50 mph section he couldn’t do much else.

Yes he could. As rightly said-get past him with a quick press of the throttle.

AVERAGE speed limit of 50 mph. 5 seconds of 55-60 mph won’t be a problem (assuming sufficient space in front to do so).

stuwozere1:
Had an Actros the other night with it in. It somehow picked out an obstruction ahead on an empty motorway and braked for me… ACC turned off now

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Might have been the AEBS (Advanced Emergency Braking System) rather than the ACC?
They are so advanced, they see hazards invisible to the naked eye!
Over bridges, and roadside furniture (on curves or straight roads) can set it off. The book says it may not react to pedestrians, bicycles etc though. It`ll be good, when it actually works properly!

Franglais:

stuwozere1:
Had an Actros the other night with it in. It somehow picked out an obstruction ahead on an empty motorway and braked for me… ACC turned off now

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Might have been the AEBS (Advanced Emergency Braking System) rather than the ACC?
They are so advanced, they see hazards invisible to the naked eye!
Over bridges, and roadside furniture (on curves or straight roads) can set it off. The book says it may not react to pedestrians, bicycles etc though. It`ll be good, when it actually works properly!

Yeah, it could’ve been that. I suspect a moth or something smacked into the radar on the front. Lorry braked a little too late for that poor little fella [emoji16]

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I’m a fairly young driver compared to the average at 38. I’ve only ever driven auto boxes and the odd DAF with a 12 speed manual. Not really my fault, I can only drive what I’m given the keys to. I’m sure I could turn my hand to whatever I was given though. I think it’s unfair to suggest no younger driver could drive what you old timers drove back in the day.

But I do agree with the general sentiment of the post. The standard of driving is shocking and the ease of which trucks can be driven these days has to be connected to that. Trucks can be driven like cars and far too many drivers these days do just that. I find islands to show the best example of this. I will always navigate an island keeping as far left as I can. I’m not interested in how fast I can get round it or how many places I can jump, I just want to get round in one piece with no drama.

Yet every day I see clowns in artics racing round them. 3 of us came off the M42 at J10 yesterday bound for the A5 towards the A38. There are 2 lanes going round the island. On the inside was a fridge wagon and the outside a fully loaded car transporter. The lights on the island caught us out and when they went green off these 2 went. The transporter knew he was fully loaded and the best he could hope for was the fridge wagon to be fully loaded too coz if it’s empty he’s going to get blown away. Well it was fully loaded and they spent the next mile or so trying to get infront of one another while a queue of cars built up behind them waiting for their willy waving competition to end.

Car transporters have to be one of the most dangerous trucks to throw round an island. Yet this is not an unusual thing to see. I have double deckers fly past me on islands all the time. No wonder we’re seeing so many roll overs :unamused: