Trucks are far too easy to drive these days, ANYBODY who has a car licence can pass a test to drive one, but not everybody can drive one competently and safely by differentiating them from driving a car.
Thankyou Robroy, i’ve written and deleted about 4 bloody posts now , which typically waffled aimlessly over several paragraphs saying precisely what you have there in one sentence
It went wrong more than twenty years ago, the biggie (i can hear the groan already) was the loss of the gearstick and they’ve been chasing the deskilling of our job with more and more electronic safety crap and all it does is aids to the further deskilling of our industry because each new innovation allows the next worse layer of fools into the job.
One size fits all policies in our industry inevitably lead to everyone being tarred with the ‘useless’ tag, hence because the fools ‘they’ employed on the cheap can’t drive for toffee in ‘their’ eyes no one can, the driver facing camera is just the latest electronic toy being implemented as an industry must have bandaid in an attempt to stop the terminal blood loss from a self slashed artery.
Our industry lost its way a long time ago, but just as govts and such organisastions do when they’ve made a giant balls up (covid farce anyone) no one has the nous or balls to say ‘‘STOP summat’s gorn wrong so lets sit down and work out when it went wrong and do what’s needed to sort the issue out’’, no we double down and continue down that same road because no one wants to lose face or admit their mistake.
Until someone says STOP the usual suspects will continue to ram each other up the arse or turn the whole lot over on perfectly straight roads, and these companies will continue the race to the bottom eagerly awaiting the next technological wonder bandaid they can throw money at instead of sorting their acts out appreciating and encouraging and remunerating their good staff, training up the trainable and having the guts to get shut of the incompetent and useless drivers and managers.
Well I’m definitely leaving my current employer and the industry by April 2022 at the latest regardless of what happens. So by about Feb I’m going to start misbehaving to test if I’m really being watched. I’ll start with eating sandwiches and progress to yoghurts, then beer (withing legal limits, obvs). I’m curious about exactly how far we’re being watched. I shall report in with detailed ops nearer the time.
switchlogic:
Do you know where cameras are? If so I’d be covering them up on breaks and rests. And see how long before they noticed
This can lead to disciplinary. Also they can be viewed whenever they want as they have a 4g sim card
Why though? Why do they need to see you when not driving. This would be an interesting case to take to court if anyone was brave enough. I get why they want to see the when driving. But nope, not while at rest.
Trucks are far too easy to drive these days, ANYBODY who has a car licence can pass a test to drive one, but not everybody can drive one competently and safely by differentiating them from driving a car.
Thankyou Robroy, i’ve written and deleted about 4 bloody posts now , which typically waffled aimlessly over several paragraphs saying precisely what you have there in one sentence
It went wrong more than twenty years ago, the biggie (i can hear the groan already) was the loss of the gearstick and they’ve been chasing the deskilling of our job with more and more electronic safety crap and all it does is aids to the further deskilling of our industry because each new innovation allows the next worse layer of fools into the job.
One size fits all policies in our industry inevitably lead to everyone being tarred with the ‘useless’ tag, hence because the fools ‘they’ employed on the cheap can’t drive for toffee in ‘their’ eyes no one can, the driver facing camera is just the latest electronic toy being implemented as an industry must have bandaid in an attempt to stop the terminal blood loss from a self slashed artery.
Our industry lost its way a long time ago, but just as govts and such organisastions do when they’ve made a giant balls up (covid farce anyone) no one has the nous or balls to say ‘‘STOP summat’s gorn wrong so lets sit down and work out when it went wrong and do what’s needed to sort the issue out’’, no we double down and continue down that same road because no one wants to lose face or admit their mistake.
Until someone says STOP the usual suspects will continue to ram each other up the arse or turn the whole lot over on perfectly straight roads, and these companies will continue the race to the bottom eagerly awaiting the next technological wonder bandaid they can throw money at instead of sorting their acts out appreciating and encouraging and remunerating their good staff, training up the trainable and having the guts to get shut of the incompetent and useless drivers and managers.
robroy:
Tbf Luke in this particular instance and case…it actually WAS.
It’s all relative. You’ll find people saying same about your day vs their day as infinitum. Sorry, always found it tedious nonsense. Live in the now, the past has gone and won’t return no matter how much you want it to. Stop thinking in terms of better or worse about things you can’t change. It’s was just different.
ezydriver:
There’s been a bloke at our yard for a few weeks, every day, fitting something to our units. I struck up a conversation, and he’s retro fitting the direct vision gear so we can go into London. But he was also upgrading the inward facing cameras. I asked him why he was doing that, and he told me they’re no longer using SD cards, but linking them live to the office. I’ve not confirmed this with my manager, but another driver has. There’s been no word of this, we’ve not been told, God only knows what or where the official policy is.
That’s a definite line crossed for me. I just about tolerated the ‘incident cameras’ because the manager had to go to the trouble of taking the SD card out and downloading it, and would only do that if the Microlise threw up a harsh braking incident (one bloke got sacked for eating a yoghurt this way!). So in a way though we were being recorded, they turned out not to be too threatening or uncomfortable.
But now I spend 12-15 hours per night feeling very uncomfortable, as if at any moment somebody could be watching me. It’s really tapped into something deep in me that I can’t shake off. They got us semi comfortable with ‘incident cameras’, and are now introducing live cameras. I have no idea who can watch.
When I started driving artics in 2004 I had a waxy tachograph chart and a mobile phone surveying me, and that was it. Since then I’ve seen GPS trackers, remote digi tachos, live inward and outward facing cameras, extensive telematics, random drink and drug tests… I’m sure a Cat A prisoner on suicide watch in a supermax prison enjoys less surveillance.
What gets me, is that if say in 1975 all the UK’s drivers went into work Monday and their lorries had inexplicably been fitted with the surveillance tech we have today, whereas the week before all they had were paper log books, that leap would have led to pandemonium, and a lorry drivers’ strike called immediately, all for good reason. But I think of the boiling frog analogy, in that if you turn the heat up gradually, the frog in the water will gladly sit there and boil alive, seemingly oblivious to the heat.
It really is that bad.
Gonna start looking for a new job me thinks. Probably look for a shunting job somewhere, as at least I’ll have a definite finishing time and less surveillance. Either that or use my savings for a narrowboat and escape this mad society.
Just a rant. I know a couple of you will understand.
Actually, a prisoner would be on an acct assessment, was an orange folder where obs were carried out , by officers, some prisoners pretend to want to self harm … and in reality, they are checked every 15 mins and logs taken … if serious l then a nurse is on 24/7 obs… and at night roll call they are observed via the panel …l well were at pentonville prison.
I personally don’t give a toss about cameras, couldn’t care less. You’re sat in a cab with windows covering 270 degrees that everyone who is around you can see into. One of those sad neds is more likely to report you for wrongdoing whilst you’re bimbling down the road than the camera is because after an initial burst of interest lasting maybe a couple of days the bods in the office will get bored of seeing hours of Fred picking his nose, Ted scratching his nuts and Bob singing badly along with the radio and lose interest. It’s like our spot, there’s a chuffing great TV on the wall in the office which displays status and location info of all of the wagons in real time but they’ll still ring you to ask where you are when they want to know because everyone lost interest in it and forgot it’s there.
Truckulent:
If they need to watch you all day they shouldn’t have employed you. You need to trust your drivers.
The reason these cameras are installed is because they did that for years and ended up with drivers having collisions that shouldn’t have ever happened and damage to vehicles and loads.
Decades of first hand experience paying out for the costs of the crap amongst us has broken the trust in drivers from employers. Sadly the number of crap drivers seems to be on the increase. If you want anyone to rage at then rage at the blokes you work with who seem incapable of going a day without some drama occurring. They’re the real cause of inward facing cameras.
adam277:
I’d instantly leave.
I know some cant do this but I would.
I’d sooner work as a forklift driver or a shunter driver.
Oh the irony. You haven’t thought that through have you?
“I’m gonna leave because there’s a camera in the truck watching everything I do and go get a job where there’s CCTV all over the yard and in the warehouses watching everything I do.”
Trucks are far too easy to drive these days, ANYBODY who has a car licence can pass a test to drive one, but not everybody can drive one competently and safely by differentiating them from driving a car.
Thankyou Robroy, i’ve written and deleted about 4 bloody posts now , which typically waffled aimlessly over several paragraphs saying precisely what you have there in one sentence
It went wrong more than twenty years ago, the biggie (i can hear the groan already) was the loss of the gearstick and they’ve been chasing the deskilling of our job with more and more electronic safety crap and all it does is aids to the further deskilling of our industry because each new innovation allows the next worse layer of fools into the job.
One size fits all policies in our industry inevitably lead to everyone being tarred with the ‘useless’ tag, hence because the fools ‘they’ employed on the cheap can’t drive for toffee in ‘their’ eyes no one can, the driver facing camera is just the latest electronic toy being implemented as an industry must have bandaid in an attempt to stop the terminal blood loss from a self slashed artery.
Our industry lost its way a long time ago, but just as govts and such organisastions do when they’ve made a giant balls up (covid farce anyone) no one has the nous or balls to say ‘‘STOP summat’s gorn wrong so lets sit down and work out when it went wrong and do what’s needed to sort the issue out’’, no we double down and continue down that same road because no one wants to lose face or admit their mistake.
Until someone says STOP the usual suspects will continue to ram each other up the arse or turn the whole lot over on perfectly straight roads, and these companies will continue the race to the bottom eagerly awaiting the next technological wonder bandaid they can throw money at instead of sorting their acts out appreciating and encouraging and remunerating their good staff, training up the trainable and having the guts to get shut of the incompetent and useless drivers and managers.
I knew this was happening back around 1970 but I didn’t believe it when a tv crew interviewed a lorry driver at the opening of a new stretch of motorway (I forget where). I think they thought the driver would be thrilled as now he could get somewhere quicker and easier but all the driver said was “the jobs gone”.
Having just started my lorry driving career I wasn’t sure what he meant but it’s too bad he was right.
Similar situation with me, did a 3 month stint for a local 3 rigid vehicle outfit. Found out that they had been recording conversations in the cab via their dashcams, confronted the owner and he didn’t bat an eyelid, he didn’t see the issue on snooping on drivers so I didn’t see the issue with reporting his outfit to what was VOSA at the time for multiple breaches, needless to say it wasn’t long after this that he sold up. Karma
robroy:
Tbf Luke in this particular instance and case…it actually WAS.
It’s all relative. You’ll find people saying same about your day vs their day as infinitum. Sorry, always found it tedious nonsense. Live in the now, the past has gone and won’t return no matter how much you want it to. Stop thinking in terms of better or worse about things YOU CAN’T CHANGE . It’s was just different.
Thing is though Luke in this particular subject,.which in my opinion, (as well as many other’s) is just a step too far, could be quite easily changed if drivers had the balls to just collectively say no.
I was about to say ‘Whatever next’ and give a worse example, but I really can not think of anything worse than being potentially constantly watched, whilst doing my day to day job, by some prick or another in an office. there is just no need however the servile amongst us try and justify it.
Way I see it is anybody who ranges from being content to happy with a camera facing them on constant feed has either just given up, or have no self respect.
I genuinely see it as an insult to me and my professionalism, if somebody thought I needed to be constantly watched…I don’t.
Some have said about equating cameras in warehouses etc, that is an entirely different situation, in a cab it’s a one to one scenario, and don’t get me started about being filmed and potentially snooped on whilst parked up at night in your own time.
You’re an experienced tramper, how would you personally feel about it?
robroy:
Tbf Luke in this particular instance and case…it actually WAS.
It’s all relative. You’ll find people saying same about your day vs their day as infinitum. Sorry, always found it tedious nonsense. Live in the now, the past has gone and won’t return no matter how much you want it to. Stop thinking in terms of better or worse about things YOU CAN’T CHANGE . It’s was just different.
Thing is though Luke in this particular subject,.which in my opinion, (as well as many other’s) is just a step too far, could be quite easily changed if drivers had the balls to just collectively say no.
I was about to say ‘Whatever next’ and give a worse example, but I really can not think of anything worse than being potentially constantly watched, whilst doing my day to day job, by some prick or another in an office. there is just no need however the servile amongst us try and justify it.
Way I see it is anybody who ranges from being content to happy with a camera facing them on constant feed has either just given up, or have no self respect.
I genuinely see it as an insult to me and my professionalism, if somebody thought I needed to be constantly watched…I don’t.
Some have said about equating cameras in warehouses etc, that is an entirely different situation, in a cab it’s a one to one scenario, and don’t get me started about being filmed and potentially snooped on whilst parked up at night in your own time.
You’re an experienced tramper, how would you personally feel about it?
Rob this is one of the reasons I’ve left my last job , as the new owners were turning it in to nanny state
I think it goes back further than the automated gearbox Juddain mentioned to the horsepower race, we now have 700hp seen as virtually something to stab one’s colleagues in the back to get hold of. We have lost the sense of what is going on between the right foot, the tyres and the road and the sheer effort required to get 30-40+ tonnes moving, keep it moving and to stop it. The instinct for reading the road - camber, bend, width and gradient, feeling and listening to the vehicle has virtually disappeared. It’s now recline in the armchair, with the wheel comfortably restrained between one little finger and belly, and drift off into semi consciousness while the stereo blasts our favourite tunes and the truck drives itself.
A brand new vehicle has recently arrived and I’m hearing criticism of the badge, and that it only has 420 bhp to move a normal 20-25t all up and how slow it is up a local hill in comparison to one bought 2nd hand and 3/4 years older that has an extra 40hp. The 15 year old 350 hp vehicle which went only a few years ago did the job perfectly adequately, especially considering that 95% of the time it doesn’t go outside a 40 mile radius for the two, or sometimes three, deliveries a day.
adam277:
I’d instantly leave.
I know some cant do this but I would.
I’d sooner work as a forklift driver or a shunter driver.
Oh the irony. You haven’t thought that through have you?
“I’m gonna leave because there’s a camera in the truck watching everything I do and go get a job where there’s CCTV all over the yard and in the warehouses watching everything I do.”
In the warehouse, for me I have no issue with it.
I do my 4 hours work, I then have my break with no cctv. Then I do my other 4 hours. Then go home.
The cameras are not in my face, there is I feel, more of a purpose to them as well. Like it catches thieves.
I included two comparison pics. There is obviously a big difference.
Also I know I am not a perfect driver. I know sometimes I may go over the speed limit. (By mistake).
Sometimes I may eat while driving or drink. I dont want to think to myself ‘Is it ok if I eat these jaffa cakes could they cost me my job’.
With warehouse cameras they are just not intrusive.
Im not against cameras. I think forward facing cameras are great. I just dont want to have a camera in my face, only recording me for 12-15 hours a day.
cav551:
I think it goes back further than the automated gearbox Juddain mentioned to the horsepower race, we now have 700hp seen as virtually something to stab one’s colleagues in the back to get hold of. We have lost the sense of what is going on between the right foot, the tyres and the road and the sheer effort required to get 30-40+ tonnes moving, keep it moving and to stop it. The instinct for reading the road - camber, bend, width and gradient, feeling and listening to the vehicle has virtually disappeared. It’s now recline in the armchair, with the wheel comfortably restrained between one little finger and belly, and drift off into semi consciousness while the stereo blasts our favourite tunes and the truck drives itself.
A brand new vehicle has recently arrived and I’m hearing criticism of the badge, and that it only has 420 bhp to move a normal 20-25t all up and how slow it is up a local hill in comparison to one bought 2nd hand and 3/4 years older that has an extra 40hp. The 15 year old 350 hp vehicle which went only a few years ago did the job perfectly adequately, especially considering that 95% of the time it doesn’t go outside a 40 mile radius for the two, or sometimes three, deliveries a day.
The 2nd para is a justified whinge imo. Modern trucks with all their anti-emissions gubbins and fuel efficiency ECU maps do not pull anything like the same power output from a truck 20 years ago. I drive a lot of 460 hp DAFs and I can 100% say that a 380 hp DAF ATI from 20 years ago would leave them all for dust. Similarly, a 8 speed manual Axor 430 from 20 years ago would be a speck on the horizon within seconds vs a current 450 Actros.
robroy:
Way I see it is anybody who ranges from being content to happy with a camera facing them on constant feed has either just given up, or have no self respect.
Not that at all, just that for me personally I’ve got other things more important to worry about than whether some bored bod in an office feels the need to want to watch me pick my nose. I literally couldn’t care less whether a lorry has a camera in it or not because I know I’m doing the job properly.
, which typically waffled aimlessly over several paragraphs saying precisely what you have there in one sentence 
there is just no need however the servile amongst us try and justify it.
