big boots:
it could be worse,if the minimum wage had not been brought out the scummy companies would be paying 3.50 an hour for some jobs.my first job when leaving school in the 80s was in a plastic moulding company lumping 40 kilo bags of plastic into machines and running em for 80 pence an hour
I don’t agree. In many areas the national minimum wage has become the national standard wage.
When they brought it in most earned much more than the NMW, But when they left the company the new employee would be taken on at the NMW.
It has moved the ecconomy backwards, So has mass immigration, Political correctness, Brussels, and bureaucracy. But it’s still a key factor.
Asda are paying more per hour to drive a little home delivery van than a local haulier on class one work. The Royal Mail are also advertising for a Postman paying around 40% more to drive a van
If the hours were more than 20 a week I would be applying for it !!!
…like I said, it’s a complete waste of money paying to acquire any type of HGV Licence these days. Like it or not it’s the cheap foreign labour that’s helped keep the pay rates low and the greedy bosses who employ them. I’ve had good jobs in the past with union membership (T&G) and been made redundant on both occasions, lazy useless reps in the pockets of management from what I’ve seen of them and I wouldn’t have any faith in them whatsoever
Just out of curiosity I wonder how the rates have changed on PSV work and how they compare to HGV work?
I can’t speak for anywhere else but around here if you go and work for one of the bigger bus companies (i.e. First) the money for driving is far in excess of class one wages unless you can find one of those good jobs that are never advertised. One driver on First I know told me recently that their pay rise had been agreed and will see them go onto £10.40/hr after a year’s service although it is flat rate with no overtime for weekends and so on, of which you would work a lot. Guaranteed 39hrs per week. £8.50-£9.00/hr is the going rate for bog standard artic jobs around here.
Of course the small bus companies pay in some cases considerably less than First but I believe there is more flexibility there. From what their driver told me at First you do exactly what you’re told, when you’re told and if you are rota’d for a late turn on your wedding anniversary then that’s just tough!! The state of the vehicles they have to drive hardly impresses either, I think their newest ones around here are 06-platers and they still have lots and lots of R- and S-registered buses. The kind of cargo you would be carrying also fails to appeal from what I have seen.
They do, however, take you off the road on full pay for your DCPC.
big boots:
it could be worse,if the minimum wage had not been brought out the scummy companies would be paying 3.50 an hour for some jobs.my first job when leaving school in the 80s was in a plastic moulding company lumping 40 kilo bags of plastic into machines and running em for 80 pence an hour
I don’t agree. In many areas the national minimum wage has become the national standard wage.
When they brought it in most earned much more than the NMW, But when they left the company the new employee would be taken on at the NMW.
It has moved the ecconomy backwards, So has mass immigration, Political correctness, Brussels, and bureaucracy. But it’s still a key factor.
You’ve got it limey, all an employer is required to ro is pay the minimum & with so many out of work & being pushed by the job centre to take anything its an employers market , they know that most can’t & won’t refuse a job offer of minimum wage for class 1 so have no reason to pay more & some poor bloke who’s been made redundant & ended up in the dole office will be told take it or your benefits stop if you refuse its a catch 22 that’s going backwards & we will all be on minimum before long …
koikeeper:
if its a case of pay the mortgage or lose your house you dont have any option, especially when work is thin on the ground…not ideal but everyone has bills to pay!
Sorry but I do not subscribe to this “excuse”.
I too have a family to feed and a very large mortgage but I still, even through the recession, never sold my arse even though it got very close to me losing my house. It is because drivers will cave in to desperation that we are taken advantage of to such a level. If more of us said no then rates would simply have to rise accordingly but employers know that drivers will bow to pressure and work for [zb] all.
We could all be on a decent wage but sadly the only people stopping us from being on fantastic wages our ourselves by taking the same attitude as you. Suppose that’s life but some of us don’t accept it and fortunately for me it paid off.
so if it came down to it, would you choose to lose the house?
koikeeper:
if its a case of pay the mortgage or lose your house you dont have any option, especially when work is thin on the ground…not ideal but everyone has bills to pay!
Sorry but I do not subscribe to this “excuse”.
I too have a family to feed and a very large mortgage but I still, even through the recession, never sold my arse even though it got very close to me losing my house. It is because drivers will cave in to desperation that we are taken advantage of to such a level. If more of us said no then rates would simply have to rise accordingly but employers know that drivers will bow to pressure and work for [zb] all.
We could all be on a decent wage but sadly the only people stopping us from being on fantastic wages our ourselves by taking the same attitude as you. Suppose that’s life but some of us don’t accept it and fortunately for me it paid off.
so if it came down to it, would you choose to lose the house?
Well, given that I have now been a class 1 driver for nigh on 20 years the answer is yes I would lose the house rather than let some ■■■■■■■■ company shaft me blind. I know what the rates were 20 years ago and I know what they should be today. Agencies offering fixed rates for all hours and Sundays at £11 per hour are just total insults to us the drivers and those with a pair will not tolerate or help the unscrupulous operator get their way by trying to get us all on the national minimum wage.
The simple fact is that if I do lose my house then I can rent and live in the house of my choosing in a location of my choosing too, so not much to lose their apart from the equity in my home which I would receive should my house be sold for more than I bought it for. I see it far too often nowadays where drivers think they are lucky to have a job and will work for what they are told they are worth as opposed to what we are actually worth. I no longer get involved with other drivers, I simply let them work for peanuts and laugh quietly to myself but hey, some of us are made from harder stuff and have a pair of balls along with the ability to use the word “no” where appropriate.
koikeeper:
if its a case of pay the mortgage or lose your house you dont have any option, especially when work is thin on the ground…not ideal but everyone has bills to pay!
Sorry but I do not subscribe to this “excuse”.
I too have a family to feed and a very large mortgage but I still, even through the recession, never sold my arse even though it got very close to me losing my house. It is because drivers will cave in to desperation that we are taken advantage of to such a level. If more of us said no then rates would simply have to rise accordingly but employers know that drivers will bow to pressure and work for [zb] all.
We could all be on a decent wage but sadly the only people stopping us from being on fantastic wages our ourselves by taking the same attitude as you. Suppose that’s life but some of us don’t accept it and fortunately for me it paid off.
so if it came down to it, would you choose to lose the house?
Well, given that I have now been a class 1 driver for nigh on 20 years the answer is yes I would lose the house rather than let some [zb] company shaft me blind. I know what the rates were 20 years ago and I know what they should be today. Agencies offering fixed rates for all hours and Sundays at £11 per hour are just total insults to us the drivers and those with a pair will not tolerate or help the unscrupulous operator get their way by trying to get us all on the national minimum wage.
The simple fact is that if I do lose my house then I can rent and live in the house of my choosing in a location of my choosing too, so not much to lose their apart from the equity in my home which I would receive should my house be sold for more than I bought it for. I see it far too often nowadays where drivers think they are lucky to have a job and will work for what they are told they are worth as opposed to what we are actually worth. I no longer get involved with other drivers, I simply let them work for peanuts and laugh quietly to myself but hey, some of us are made from harder stuff and have a pair of balls along with the ability to use the word “no” where appropriate.
Blimey, lose your house because your to big a man to work for peanuts, rather than except a poorly paid job to tide over. I can understand your sentiment and to a certain extent agree, but if push came to shove you’ve got make those payments, and if youre in work you’ll always get work even if its poorly paid. On my 3rd job change since 2008, and only moved because bosses used the recession to drive earning down, but I bit my lip until I’d lined something else up, and last summer had 2 jobs lined up what recession.
And given that I too have been on artics over 20 yrs, I too can remember what wages were like, and it wasnt always pretty, or easy. Some of the general haulage houly paid jobs were as rubbish then as they are now, and some were on percentage or mileage(though some of them were better than hours) tipping/loading off card at the mild end off running bent, fuse out 18 hour days no tax over weight and on the down side . God I miss it . Could do some earning
Dont have rose tinted specs about a few blue chip jobs, Tesco Birds Eye Ford fleet, of the top my head a few of what were blue chip own account fleet jobs, this was one end of the Industry but there was and still is the other end, just without so much running bent
Why would anyone drive a lorry for minimum wage ? I’m in Zlonfon do obviously not affected , but still earning less than I ever have. But if I was up North I’d rather push trollies around a Tesco car park or sweep the streets than let someone take the ■■■■ put of me for driving a lorry for the same money. Lot less stress and fine risks in the other jobs as well. God how I miss the days when you could have a bit of a fiddle ( no not that kind) at work. The dust was very good for that, used to sometimes make an extra £150 pw plus beers , meat and veg etc. lovely.
Silver_Surfer:
I remember the days before the recession, influx of eastern euros & Digi cards when you could do a grand a week on the agency without breaking a sweat, well maybe a bit of sweat!
You still can do a grand a week. Maybe not every week perhaps but it can be done.
koikeeper:
if its a case of pay the mortgage or lose your house you dont have any option, especially when work is thin on the ground…not ideal but everyone has bills to pay!
Sorry but I do not subscribe to this “excuse”.
I too have a family to feed and a very large mortgage but I still, even through the recession, never sold my arse even though it got very close to me losing my house. It is because drivers will cave in to desperation that we are taken advantage of to such a level. If more of us said no then rates would simply have to rise accordingly but employers know that drivers will bow to pressure and work for [zb] all.
We could all be on a decent wage but sadly the only people stopping us from being on fantastic wages our ourselves by taking the same attitude as you. Suppose that’s life but some of us don’t accept it and fortunately for me it paid off.
so if it came down to it, would you choose to lose the house?
Well, given that I have now been a class 1 driver for nigh on 20 years the answer is yes I would lose the house rather than let some [zb] company shaft me blind. I know what the rates were 20 years ago and I know what they should be today. Agencies offering fixed rates for all hours and Sundays at £11 per hour are just total insults to us the drivers and those with a pair will not tolerate or help the unscrupulous operator get their way by trying to get us all on the national minimum wage.
The simple fact is that if I do lose my house then I can rent and live in the house of my choosing in a location of my choosing too, so not much to lose their apart from the equity in my home which I would receive should my house be sold for more than I bought it for. I see it far too often nowadays where drivers think they are lucky to have a job and will work for what they are told they are worth as opposed to what we are actually worth. I no longer get involved with other drivers, I simply let them work for peanuts and laugh quietly to myself but hey, some of us are made from harder stuff and have a pair of balls along with the ability to use the word “no” where appropriate.
Blimey, lose your house because your to big a man to work for peanuts, rather than except a poorly paid job to tide over. I can understand your sentiment and to a certain extent agree, but if push came to shove you’ve got make those payments, and if youre in work you’ll always get work even if its poorly paid. On my 3rd job change since 2008, and only moved because bosses used the recession to drive earning down, but I bit my lip until I’d lined something else up, and last summer had 2 jobs lined up what recession.
And given that I too have been on artics over 20 yrs, I too can remember what wages were like, and it wasnt always pretty, or easy. Some of the general haulage houly paid jobs were as rubbish then as they are now, and some were on percentage or mileage(though some of them were better than hours) tipping/loading off card at the mild end off running bent, fuse out 18 hour days no tax over weight and on the down side . God I miss it . Could do some earning
Dont have rose tinted specs about a few blue chip jobs, Tesco Birds Eye Ford fleet, of the top my head a few of what were blue chip own account fleet jobs, this was one end of the Industry but there was and still is the other end, just without so much running bent
exactly
it doesn’t make sense, chances are you’d lose thousands, because the house will be sold quickly and would probably be 75 / 85 % of the market value. that only comes off your equity, if there’s then not enough equity to cover the dept, then it’s hand in your pocket to make up the shortfall. then unless you’ve only recently bought or re-mortgaged, then chances are you couldn’t rent anything similar for the same money as your mortgage, so it would be something smaller or in a ■■■■■■■ area, that’s how it is around here anyway.
3 months in a ■■■■ NMW job until something better comes along, if you said you was a grand a month down, wouldn’t the 3k would be nowt to what you’d lose if you let the house go?
The debt conspiracy is that you go broke SLOWLY over a long period of time.
Like anything else parasitic, the establishment don’t want to kill too quickly, - ideally never-, the host they ■■■■ the blood from. That’s why it’s “never too late to resume payments oh polease don’t default and pay nothing!” when you decide, having lost your job outright, that you are going to walk away from all debt. … Suddenly there’s a job available that’ll meet the minimum payments again? - Why bother? Keep on walking away! Use the downward mobility to slap the inflationists where it hurts. After all, the cost of living went up, bills went up, but your wages didn’t because “Time’s are 'ard”. Money was loaned on the basis that your income would rise over time. That turned out to be a lie, so bugger working for some skinflint just to pay another skinflint’s dues. They can both go without!
Taking “Any job” to pay “debt interest” is like stealing from your friends to buy drugs. If you didn’t have an addiction, you’d just go without the drugs, and you wouldn’t be depriving your friends, either of rising wages or even the job itself.
I wonder what the real horrific statistics are of “exactly how many jobs that pay a repayment mortgage and put modest food on the table” have been created since 2008?
koikeeper:
if its a case of pay the mortgage or lose your house you dont have any option, especially when work is thin on the ground…not ideal but everyone has bills to pay!
Sorry but I do not subscribe to this “excuse”.
I too have a family to feed and a very large mortgage but I still, even through the recession, never sold my arse even though it got very close to me losing my house. It is because drivers will cave in to desperation that we are taken advantage of to such a level. If more of us said no then rates would simply have to rise accordingly but employers know that drivers will bow to pressure and work for [zb] all.
We could all be on a decent wage but sadly the only people stopping us from being on fantastic wages our ourselves by taking the same attitude as you. Suppose that’s life but some of us don’t accept it and fortunately for me it paid off.
so if it came down to it, would you choose to lose the house?
Well, given that I have now been a class 1 driver for nigh on 20 years the answer is yes I would lose the house rather than let some [zb] company shaft me blind. I know what the rates were 20 years ago and I know what they should be today. Agencies offering fixed rates for all hours and Sundays at £11 per hour are just total insults to us the drivers and those with a pair will not tolerate or help the unscrupulous operator get their way by trying to get us all on the national minimum wage.
The simple fact is that if I do lose my house then I can rent and live in the house of my choosing in a location of my choosing too, so not much to lose their apart from the equity in my home which I would receive should my house be sold for more than I bought it for. I see it far too often nowadays where drivers think they are lucky to have a job and will work for what they are told they are worth as opposed to what we are actually worth. I no longer get involved with other drivers, I simply let them work for peanuts and laugh quietly to myself but hey, some of us are made from harder stuff and have a pair of balls along with the ability to use the word “no” where appropriate.
Blimey, lose your house because your to big a man to work for peanuts, rather than except a poorly paid job to tide over. I can understand your sentiment and to a certain extent agree, but if push came to shove you’ve got make those payments, and if youre in work you’ll always get work even if its poorly paid. On my 3rd job change since 2008, and only moved because bosses used the recession to drive earning down, but I bit my lip until I’d lined something else up, and last summer had 2 jobs lined up what recession.
And given that I too have been on artics over 20 yrs, I too can remember what wages were like, and it wasnt always pretty, or easy. Some of the general haulage houly paid jobs were as rubbish then as they are now, and some were on percentage or mileage(though some of them were better than hours) tipping/loading off card at the mild end off running bent, fuse out 18 hour days no tax over weight and on the down side . God I miss it . Could do some earning
Dont have rose tinted specs about a few blue chip jobs, Tesco Birds Eye Ford fleet, of the top my head a few of what were blue chip own account fleet jobs, this was one end of the Industry but there was and still is the other end, just without so much running bent
exactly
it doesn’t make sense, chances are you’d lose thousands, because the house will be sold quickly and would probably be 75 / 85 % of the market value. that only comes off your equity, if there’s then not enough equity to cover the dept, then it’s hand in your pocket to make up the shortfall. then unless you’ve only recently bought or re-mortgaged, then chances are you couldn’t rent anything similar for the same money as your mortgage, so it would be something smaller or in a [zb] area, that’s how it is around here anyway.
3 months in a [zb] NMW job until something better comes along, if you said you was a grand a month down, wouldn’t the 3k would be nowt to what you’d lose if you let the house go?
thats spot on, if you had to have a distress sale, such as being forced to close on the Mortgage by your lender, then you could say good bye to a hefty wegde of £10-£20 k, puts £3 k short on earnings into perspective. Plus your credit history would be shot to pieces which affects more than trying to get another mortgage, some landlords/letting agents do credit checks, that would leave you renting the rock bottom in the market, sure the Mrs would be dead chuffed with that.
Like you Stevieboy I would rather take a gamble on a NMW job first, just keeping my eyes and ears well open for something better.
Winseer:
The debt conspiracy is that you go broke SLOWLY over a long period of time.
Like anything else parasitic, the establishment don’t want to kill too quickly, - ideally never-, the host they ■■■■ the blood from. That’s why it’s “never too late to resume payments oh polease don’t default and pay nothing!” when you decide, having lost your job outright, that you are going to walk away from all debt. … Suddenly there’s a job available that’ll meet the minimum payments again? - Why bother? Keep on walking away! Use the downward mobility to slap the inflationists where it hurts. After all, the cost of living went up, bills went up, but your wages didn’t because “Time’s are 'ard”. Money was loaned on the basis that your income would rise over time. That turned out to be a lie, so bugger working for some skinflint just to pay another skinflint’s dues. They can both go without!
Taking “Any job” to pay “debt interest” is like stealing from your friends to buy drugs. If you didn’t have an addiction, you’d just go without the drugs, and you wouldn’t be depriving your friends, either of rising wages or even the job itself.
I wonder what the real horrific statistics are of “exactly how many jobs that pay a repayment mortgage and put modest food on the table” have been created since 2008?
Exactly!
String them along for long enough then go bankrupt. Kills them off and after a short period of time you’re discharged and can get on with your, much better, existence free - from parasitic hangers on - you kill of their life lines.
It’s because NMW jobs are taken short term that they become the Normal Minimum Wage!
Capitalism is dead!
Do you know anyone sent to jail for non payment of personal debt? No!
Winseer:
The debt conspiracy is that you go broke SLOWLY over a long period of time.
Like anything else parasitic, the establishment don’t want to kill too quickly, - ideally never-, the host they ■■■■ the blood from. That’s why it’s “never too late to resume payments oh polease don’t default and pay nothing!” when you decide, having lost your job outright, that you are going to walk away from all debt. … Suddenly there’s a job available that’ll meet the minimum payments again? - Why bother? Keep on walking away! Use the downward mobility to slap the inflationists where it hurts. After all, the cost of living went up, bills went up, but your wages didn’t because “Time’s are 'ard”. Money was loaned on the basis that your income would rise over time. That turned out to be a lie, so bugger working for some skinflint just to pay another skinflint’s dues. They can both go without!
Taking “Any job” to pay “debt interest” is like stealing from your friends to buy drugs. If you didn’t have an addiction, you’d just go without the drugs, and you wouldn’t be depriving your friends, either of rising wages or even the job itself.
I wonder what the real horrific statistics are of “exactly how many jobs that pay a repayment mortgage and put modest food on the table” have been created since 2008?
Exactly!
String them along for long enough then go bankrupt. Kills them off and after a short period of time you’re discharged and can get on with your, much better, existence free - from parasitic hangers on - you kill of their life lines.
It’s because NMW jobs are taken short term that they become the Normal Minimum Wage!
Capitalism is dead!
Do you know anyone sent to jail for non payment of personal debt? No!
You see this is where they get most of you by the balls, they know you will work for nothing just to pay the interest on your mortgage and other loans so that is all they offer you. Working for peanuts is just delaying the inevitable. If you are going to go under then you are going to go under, why suffer the misery of living that period of time for longer when you can face facts, get it over with and move on rather than turning up for work every day and having to look your boss in the eye knowing that he is paying the bare minimum that the government says that he has to and yet he expect a good days work from you? ■■■■ that!
I worked my way out of my ■■■■ and didn’t go down the bankruptcy road or IVA ■■■■■■■■, I rang my creditors, told them the situation and too kit from there. Santander were the least helpful of them all regardless of the fact I had paid my mortgage on time for over 14 years so it was a pleasure to watch them look stupid in court when they presented incorrect figures and the judge threw the case out.
As I said, some of us have a point beyond which we will not be pushed and be it foolish or not I will not be forced into working for the national minimum wage when I have spent all these years and all this money to get where I am now.
I don’t have to drive for a living so if I was faced with driving for minimum wage or doing something else then the something else would win.
Truckbling:
You see this is where they get most of you by the balls, they know you will work for nothing just to pay the interest on your mortgage and other loans so that is all they offer you. Working for peanuts is just delaying the inevitable. If you are going to go under then you are going to go under, why suffer the misery of living that period of time for longer when you can face facts, get it over with and move on rather than turning up for work every day and having to look your boss in the eye knowing that he is paying the bare minimum that the government says that he has to and yet he expect a good days work from you? [zb] that!
I worked my way out of my [zb] and didn’t go down the bankruptcy road or IVA ■■■■■■■■, I rang my creditors, told them the situation and too kit from there. Santander were the least helpful of them all regardless of the fact I had paid my mortgage on time for over 14 years so it was a pleasure to watch them look stupid in court when they presented incorrect figures and the judge threw the case out.
As I said, some of us have a point beyond which we will not be pushed and be it foolish or not I will not be forced into working for the national minimum wage when I have spent all these years and all this money to get where I am now.
I don’t have to drive for a living so if I was faced with driving for minimum wage or doing something else then the something else would win.
Not all off us have got into that position, for whatever reason. At the start off 2009 I took a hefty pay cut, but after 9 montha of reduced wages and 5 years with that employer I’d lined up a better job and moved on. When that Employer lost a contract and reduced hours/earnings, again I took a few months to see how it might pan out, then lined up a new job and moved on. I still maintain that because I was in a job I got another job. That applies wether that is minimum wage or better. Sometimes working for peanuts isnt always delaying the inevitable, it can be a case of keeping things ticking over til something better comes along.
If nobody took these minimum wage jobs would the bosses close the firms down or start to pay more. Drivers may have bills to pay but so do bosses and one week with no drivers may just change things.
mac12:
If nobody took these minimum wage jobs would the bosses close the firms down or start to pay more. Drivers may have bills to pay but so do bosses and one week with no drivers may just change things.
And exactly in percentage terms more do you think these bosses should be paying, because what I see is an industry that is working on wafer thin margins, and if these bosses have priced to get work, and then had to pay 5% 10% 20% more in wages, then yes they would probably shut the doors. But dont worry because your freindly Bulgarian will deliver your morning cornflakes at half the cost
Before you get the idea that I think its sensible to have driven rates down to the floor, then no it obviuosly isnt, but thats were we are, and as an employee, all you can do is to aim high but understand that sometimes you have to expect low.
Its allways been the same, well aslong as I’ve been doing this job. You get good jobs that pay, then you get good jobs were you enjoy your work but dont pay aswell, and you get bad paying jobs that are used as a stop gap
Don’t no about percentage terms but until 4 months ago I wouldn’t work for less than £10 per hour, 4 months ago I was offered a job 2 minutes from home at £9.50 per hour so about the same without travel costs. Is there really all these Bulgarian drivers waiting to work here and if there is it maybe time to find yourself another job now because your employer will not be keeping any English driver.
mac12:
Don’t no about percentage terms but until 4 months ago I wouldn’t work for less than £10 per hour, 4 months ago I was offered a job 2 minutes from home at £9.50 per hour so about the same without travel costs. .
But that means that you’ve cut your own throat, and taken a 5% pay cut how could you, quite easily because you’ve weighed up the options and actually you’ll be better off, I can see that. Though you’re not talking NMW, the principle is still no diferent its about weighing up the options. I commute 80 mile at either end off the week, but for the out lay £30 in petrol, (and unless I could walk to work I’m always going to need fuel at some cost or other to get to work) I’m earning well in excess of £100 a week more than anything local to me is paying, No brainer to me, the same as what you’ve now done
mac12:
Is there really all these Bulgarian drivers waiting to work here and if there is it maybe time to find yourself another job now because your employer will not be keeping any English driver.
I dont know wether that is the case or not, I was just kinda saying that there is allways some one who’ll do the job or need the work.
. God I miss it 
. Could do some earning 
