Merc Axor handling question

The problem dear East Anglian Trucker is that many of the rest of the current lorries lull, as do modern cars, unskilled unfeeling modern pilots, into believing they are drivers.

There’s traction and stability controls now, so just sticking their clog down in their auto rubbish and overpowering out of roundabout on the most worn part of a slippery surface doesn’t have the destabilising effect it should, the electronics take over and re-establish traction by cutting the power to suit.

This is all very well, but we end up with a whole swathe of drivers that have no ‘feel’ for whats happening under their arses, and whilst that may be fine for the thousands that swan up and down our motorways and into RDCs for 99% of their time in good conditions, it doesn’t prepare them for the interventions they need to make when things get hairy and ice and snow come into the equation, or swift but controlled evasive actions may be called for…why one could wonder are so many bloody lorries falling over now?

See some of the other threads running, new drivers that haven’t got a clue about hill climbing, and why should they, they weren’t taught to drive a lorry they were taught to pass a test, brakes to slow gears to go being the current thing…and again thats fine for most transport requirements when all thats needed is a semi trained chimp to attend the wheel and press the throttle to go and the brake to stop, but it isn’t giving us future lorry drivers who know how to control the situation when conditions and terrain arn’t ideal.

Axor doesn’t do everything for the pilot, no its not an ideal steering wheel attendants lorry because if you boot it out of a corner, A it will either want to go straight on and then probably B seeing its actually got a lorry engine that responds well it will spin the rear wheels up and very soon it will be sideways because it doesn’t do what the others do and drive itself.

We see the standard of driving out there every day, we see how too many simply haven’t got a clue what to do when anything other than selecting D and sticking the boot hard down is called for.
Unfortunately the electronic stuff isn’t doing the modern driver any favours, lulled into a false sense of capability, when it does finally go wrong, when our modern driver finally reaches the point where sheer phsyics takes over, all the elctronics in the world aint going to save them and anyone else in the sweep zone.

Just switching onto cars for a moment, it can’t have failed to have been noticed just how quickly modern cars, especially RWD’s, can be driven these days, thats because the electronics are doing all the work, people ask on forums why their BMW rear brake shoes are wearing out faster than the fronts, its because the stability systems are braking the rear wheels far too often in order to keep the vehicle on the road, these driving gods haven’t got the nous to realise that it isn’t their driving prowess controlling the unltimate driving machine, its the electronics constnatly keeping them out of trouble.
Now whats wrong with that you may well ask, well as in the lorry situation they are going so fast when eventually even the elctronics can’t cope that the inevitable pile up is often tragic, they get into aquaplaning because that light steering feel and slight twitch from under their arse doesn’t compute .

See, i don’t think its so great that we have electronics keeping lorries in check, a lorry isn’t a car and electronics have no place controlling them, they should be controlled by a driver who has learned, how we did from day one, to feel whats happening at the business end.

There are lorry drivers and people who drive lorries there’s a world of difference.

shugg:
During what is a very busy period for the company / industry I work for my operator has hired some 3 axle Axor tractor units , despite some very negative reports on this site myself and most of the other drivers liked them very much , !!! ,the only problem I found was you had constantly to correct the steering , is this a common problem ? .

The OP was asking members of this forum if constantly corrcting the steering on an Axor was a common problem.
I and a couple of others have said yes it is indeed a problem.

Tell me Juddian, if one is a “real driver” and not a steering wheel attendant, does one not have to constantly correct the steering on these things?

And if not do they not end up in a field?

cheekymonkey:

shugg:
During what is a very busy period for the company / industry I work for my operator has hired some 3 axle Axor tractor units , despite some very negative reports on this site myself and most of the other drivers liked them very much , !!! ,the only problem I found was you had constantly to correct the steering , is this a common problem ? .

The OP was asking members of this forum if constantly corrcting the steering on an Axor was a common problem.
I and a couple of others have said yes it is indeed a problem.

Tell me Juddian, if one is a “real driver” and not a steering wheel attendant, does one not have to constantly correct the steering on these things?

And if not do they not end up in a field?

Dunno, i’ll never be a driver as long as i have a hole in me arse.

However, i’ve driven Scanis Volvos (especially FL and FM) Ivecos MANs Mercs Dafs and others i’ve forgotten no doubt in the last 10 years alone and some but not all models of each make have required constant corrective steering, Volvo FL and FM the worse offenders by a country mile, and with a new set of drive axle tyres sheesh, but i’ve had Scania car transporters that given the right motorway tram lines could throw you nearly into the next lane.

As a driver, you will know that the heavier the load on the steering axle and trailer axles leading to lighter drive axle exacerbates this problem.

As you are finding the Axor to be a repetitive problem, have you even once checked it on an axle weigher (preferably) or split weighed it to see if there’s a loading…or 5th wheel positioning…problem, have you checked the tyre pressures, is the trailer loaded sensibly to put some weight on the drive axle or typically RDC’d where no thought whatsoever is given to stability or axle balancing…i suspect most Axors being fleet stuff they are set up as one size fits all.

Edit…is there adequate grease on the 5th wheel, a dry 5th wheel can produce some uncomfortable sensations.

I can only speak as i find, i never found an Axor to be any worse than any other lorry if set up correctly, and once mastered to be a hugely capable working motor whilst as simple as can be found these days.

When i got a new motor it took me several loads via the axle weigher to get the 5th wheel in exactly the right place for weight distribution versus stability.

Juddian:
The problem dear East Anglian Trucker is that many of the rest of the current lorries lull, as do modern cars, unskilled unfeeling modern pilots, into believing they are drivers…

Well, generally speaking, I wholeheartedly agree with you Juddian. You are correct, no amount of electronic controls will save an imprudent and incompetent driver from their own inappropriate actions.

But that’s a somewhat different point, than the one about three axle Axor safety. That’s an industry training and recruitment problem.

The point I’ve been trying to make, and despite the short sighted view of Olog Hai, is that, given a correctly trained driver, whilst an Axor will do the job, it is not adequately engineered to provide the standards of safety, not just that the drivers should expect, but the general population who use the road system beside these vehicles - in the hands of experienced, or worse, in-experienced drivers.

Olog Hai:
East Anglian Trucker, you seem to vastly over-think the relatively simple act of driving a lorry from Warehouse A to Shop B. “Expect a vehicle… which meets the absolute pinnacle of current engineering practice…” WTF.

I despair of the haulage industry in general at times.

Why would you not want the best possible tools to do your job? Olog Hai you seem unable to appreciate the wider transport picture that “…the relatively simple act of driving a lorry…” is not just about going from “Warehouse A to Shop B”.

Whether you like it or not, there are now aspects of environmentally friendly and economical driving operations to be taken into consideration. Then there are the constantly changing legal parameters and regulations. There’s generally, well, for professional drivers at least, a need to drive with a high level of mechanical sympathy. There’s load and weight distribution aspects - which Juddian has well described in a separate post on this thread, not to mention legal obligations. On top of those, there’s road-worthiness requirements, and naturally an awareness of the safety aspects of driving your vehicle on an inadequate, crowded, badly maintained road system that is frankly, still functioning at a 1960’s level, in comparison with the efficient transport infrastructures of other similarly civilised societies.

Most professional drivers will be aware of, and almost certainly adjust their driving to meet those criteria, most of us pretty much subconsciously, and without thinking too hard about them, because that’s what professional truck drivers do. And we can see the potential hazards virtually automatically as well.

If you were able to see the broader picture Olog Hai, you wouldn’t dismiss your trade (if indeed you drive a truck for a living) so easily. You “despair of the haulage industry in general at times.” I despair at how quickly truck drivers are prepared to accept the current negative status quo in the industry, and then just as quickly whinge and whine about how low their pay is, and how bad their conditions. Why would you expect to get more pay, when you’re prepared to think your job is just about “… the relatively simple act of driving a lorry from Warehouse A to Shop B.” If you are prepared to give such little value to what you do, is it any wonder your boss, does the same? If you believe you’re a “steering wheel attendant”, you can’t really complain when you’re treated like one.

I’m afraid you’re one of the reasons drivers will always be seen that way, rather than people who bring judgement, ability, knowledge, awareness, and sheer hard work amongst other things, to moving hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of vehicle and load safely from A to B, wherever they may be.

To return to the OP’s original thread topic. I believe the Axor to be dangerous in certain conditions, in unfamiliar hands, (Which I would suggest is fairly often, given the wide range of vehicles and constantly changing drivers, that work in most fleets in this country.)

I believe it CAN be driven safely and securely, once fundamental changes to a drivers normal driving style have been adopted. I believe that for a driver to be forced to accommodate the handling deficiencies of the unit, by changing their style of driving may be beyond the capabilities of some, which encourages unnecessarily unsafe transport operations, in comparison with other, competitive vehicles. And worse, I believe Mercedes Benz have knowingly produced a tractor unit that falls short of the currently acceptable engineering standards, to take advantage of vast fleet sales, at the expense not just of driver safety, but public safety as well.

I’m not naive enough to believe anything is likely to change, and whilst Mercedes Benz and some drivers on here will excuse bad and unsafe road handling as “driver error” they will be able to continue doing so.

EAT, i agree with most of that post, where we differ is that whilst you believe the trend to newer more electronic (safer? maybe in a perfect world) vehicles is the way forward, i think slightly differently.

You rightly state about the realities of modern traffic and road problems, where we differ is that i think we should have swtiched on drivers in vehicles they actually have to drive in order to maintain control over it, not the move to the vehicle in control giving the driver a false sense of whats happening underneath.

I suspect your wish will be granted, mine won’t be.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on certain things…even if i am right… :wink: :smiling_imp:

Juddian:
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on certain things…even if i am right… :wink: :smiling_imp:

Ha, ha! I do appreciate and understand your point Juddian. I just don’t think it’s enough of an excuse to manufacture a tractor unit that has obvious handling deficiencies, to capitalise on high volume fleet sales. In fact, it’s verging on the dishonest and simply encourages other manufacturers to follow suit.

Your well made point is about training and/or experience. Neither of those is cheap to acquire, and in the current business environment, it just ain’t going to happen. We’re stuck with relatively inexperienced drivers who have “purchased” their ticket, and with the connivance of the authorities. In fact, the drivers who think transport is a relatively simple process of driving from warehouse A to shop B!

The next stage isn’t too difficult to see. And Mercedes Benz will be right there still earning their crust. It’s the fully automatic goods transport system. Then I’m afraid the only drivers being used will effectively just be shunters of modules from the loading bay to a stack, where they’ll be computer picked and attached to “trains” of computerised transport modules, automatically travelling along computer controlled networks implanted in our roads to computer organised terminals - (the distant spawn of what Foulgers are setting up outside Norwich right now.) where they’ll once more computer picked for delivery by the “human shunters” at the other end of their journey.

I expect the supermarkets will get their fingers into financing and creating this robot system, so it can be better adapted to their own specific transport requirements.

It won’t happen in my lifetime, and I suspect not in yours either Juddian, but the romance of manhandling a truck with wooden door frames, gaps in the floor, and a Fuller gearbox, up and down single carriageway roads the length and breadth of the country, will have been long lost in the history of our culture… along with the knowledge and experience required to do it safely. If people have time for history! Or culture.

As the Axor uses the very same chassis and axles as the old Actros, this must put the problem elsewhere other than the truck design.

If I sit the fifth wheel on the arse end of my Actros it will want to go straight on at greasy round-a-bouts. I would imagine most Axors that are being complained about are used with multi trailer swop operations, and fifth wheels are set further back to assist the more ‘‘portly’’ drivers in squeezing between cab and trailer to connect suzies.

Another problem causer is tyre pressure on the mid lift, ideal pressure in my experience is 105 psi. This allows the tyrewalls to flex more and give way to the steering axle, whose tyres should be at 125 psi.

Lack of fifth wheel grease and tyre quality can be another issue. Hard compound low energy tyres arn’t the best at providing steering grip, and cheap budget tyres will always be looking for the nearest ditch.

Lets face it the Axor is a budget truck designed for a job, the fixed non steer midlift keeps weight down and maintanence to a minimum, and maybe another 20cm in the wheelbase may have helped. I was loaned a quite high miler for two weeks whilst waiting for my current Actros ride. I never experienced any traction or steering problems, and was impressed with the engines guts and torque and the trucks general capabilities, but was glad to leave the slap over gearbox and basic cab behind and move into an autobox Mega Space :grimacing:

Big Joe.

I think your post has some merit. A lot of problems can come for how the motor is set up as you say.

However if a driver on supermarket type work started changing things to better suit the conditions he is faced with he’s likely be thrown off site for tampering with a vehicle which you can bet pounds to peanuts is set up totally for fuel economy with next to no thought given to safety and drivability.

How many f the current crop of steering wheel attendants know how to alter the fifth wheel. How many if those that know actually do it?

By the same token how many know how to check tyre pressures? Again how many of those that know how actually do it?

Equally how many would know where to find a grease gun or bucket to grease a fifth wheel and yet again how many of those that can would?

In an age if maximum profit for least effort from supermarket down to driver have we become victims of our own laziness? I know I personally do at least 20% more in a day than some of my colleagues because I know it benefits me in the long run.

How many steering wheel attendants would even consider greasing a fifth wheel as the drivers job and not leave it to the fitter inspecting the vehicle (who likely as not wouldn’t do it because there pushed all to hell anyway)

@big joe - Tesco units have sliding fifth wheels…, :wink:

Like any tractor, it depends on the trailer and load you put on it. Too much weight at the back-end of the trailer means light steering at the front for instance, from too little weight on the traction axle.
In the wet with a light load, you really want the 6 wheeler tractor for better grip. That’ll mean of course you won’t be able to do 44t on it - big deal.

I am one of those who actually likes driving axors, (unlike Runaults and Scumias), so I’ll be happy to drive what might well be someone else’s cast-off.
If any tractor handles, the radio works, and the night heater works - that’s pretty much all I need. Oh, and it mustn’t be a day cab of course. :smiley:

With the snow soon coming, you’ll live and die by just how well your tractor grips. Try and get some decent loads instead of driving around with mostly empty boxes, like so many of us do on the run-up to Christmas… :sunglasses: A ten-wheeler with an empty box on the back will slip and slide all over the place on the silghtest amount of moisture on the road surface - if you forget (or can’t!) put that extra tractor axle into the “up” position…

DAF95XF:
@big joe - Tesco units have sliding fifth wheels…, :wink:

I said in my earlier post therein may lie part of the problem. I’ll wager most have been pushed to the rear of the chassis to give space to assist suzie connecting, as I believe split coupling is frowned upon in many organisations where they take H&S to the enth degree.
Maybe these onganisations should spec a slightly longer chassis with fixed fifth wheels? or maybe they don’t really give a toss as long as the cause of their trucks ploughing straight on at round-a-bouts can be blamed on the drivers :neutral_face: