Gidders:
Is it only drivers this side of the channel who would nit pick over this kind of stuff? Is it only the UK authorities who would make it an issue worth prosecuting?
Yes, only in the UK.
My personal take on it is once im finished for the day then thats my break, what i do in between ref breaks, as long as the unit doesnt move i just get on with doing whatever needs to be done. I dont do long days (3x10hrs, 2x12hrs) just max my driving hours each week so if im due a break approaching Calais, its dump the tilt, bang onto the return load switch the tacho on break, checkover, pick up the paperwork, cup of tea and gone …no tacho break infringement, no harm done…
Right that’s decided it then, ■■■■ my breaks I’m working through them from now on, I mean it isn’t that they are designed for my own good and welfare or anything like that is it.?
And if I get nicked…well I’ll just pay up as my boss is so poor he won’t back me. But what the hell I’m a Brit Trucker me.
So now my boss will get an extra 45mins unpaid work out of me , and I’ll just get paid the same as if I was taking breaks, So here’s to his bank account at the end of the year.
Just another concession that was fought for in the name of workers rights that I’m personally going to ■■■■ up.
I love my job, and I love drivers.
Keep it up lads, the job will keep on getting better for us if we do, and crack on I say.
thetastytrucker:
Technically if vosa was to visit a site and your in your cab whilst being tipped and on a break would you be breaking the law ?
Why? Putting it on break and helping with the curtains, pallet truck or whatever is other work. Sat in your cab having a drink whilst others unload you is a break.
But whilst on ya break ya truck is loaded and you are asked to move off bay ? technically you are available for work
If you’re told or you know that a tip will take over 45 mins and you’re free to go to the canteen, or take a walk or whatever then your time is free to dispose of as you wish, equals legal break. If the unloader says “dont wander off, we need you to pull out as soon ss you’re tipped”, equals period of availability.
thetastytrucker:
Technically if vosa was to visit a site and your in your cab whilst being tipped and on a break would you be breaking the law ?
Why? Putting it on break and helping with the curtains, pallet truck or whatever is other work. Sat in your cab having a drink whilst others unload you is a break.
But whilst on ya break ya truck is loaded and you are asked to move off bay ? technically you are available for work
If you’re told or you know that a tip will take over 45 mins and you’re free to go to the canteen, or take a walk or whatever then your time is free to dispose of as you wish, equals legal break. If the unloader says “dont wander off, we need you to pull out as soon ss you’re tipped”, equals period of availability.
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The requirement that you be “free to dispose of your time” applies to daily/weekly REST periods. It plays no part in your 45 minute driving BREAK.
allways thought that was the norm amongst drivers,working through your break,everyone of us has done it over the years to save time,when I was in my twenties [a long long time ago,lol]I was on multi drop in a 12 tonner,when I had to take my break I hated it,i used to think to myself I could do another 4 to 6 drops in that time however my round was in my hometown so I could go home for my break which was a bonus ,but I have to say now that I appreciate it now i’m on the artics,nice to be able to sit in the cab,have a sandwich and a drink and relax,with possibly a kip as well,funny thing is I actually spoke to a tramper from maritime yesterday about working for them,he was delivering to us and on the next bay,he said leeds depot were the worst,some do talk down to you but you give as good as you get,facilities were top notch for drivers,with free pool tables, excellent showers,etc,he said there was good and bad at maritime,depends where you are based,but he seemed happy.
We’ll, I applied to work for the Leeds depot, and the manager that rang me wouldn’t even consider me, until I had more experience, so they must have some standards? Most places will at least look at your driving standard in person. Kinda made me want to work for them more!
thetastytrucker:
Technically if vosa was to visit a site and your in your cab whilst being tipped and on a break would you be breaking the law ?
If drivers seating and use POA that can be worse if VOSA see .
Can’t you use POA whilst being tipped then ■■?
If we press button POA that we ready must know how long it is POA will be.But really nobody know in advance.From another hand simply can talk to Vosa(if they come) that some body said 5 hours that will be legally if POA will just 50 minute.
thetastytrucker:
But whilst on ya break ya truck is loaded and you are asked to move off bay ? technically you are available for work
If you’re told or you know that a tip will take over 45 mins and you’re free to go to the canteen, or take a walk or whatever then your time is free to dispose of as you wish, equals legal break. If the unloader says “dont wander off, we need you to pull out as soon ss you’re tipped”, equals period of availability.
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The requirement that you be “free to dispose of your time” applies to daily/weekly REST periods. It plays no part in your 45 minute driving BREAK.
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Thank You. Here`s the quote.
“Break or rest
Covers breaks in work and daily or weekly rest periods. Drivers may not carry out any driving or any other work. Break periods are to be used exclusively for recuperation. During a rest period a driver must be able to dispose freely of their time.” gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … s-vehicles
EDIT. Since a break can be taken on a moving vehicle (double manning) my example of being able to take a walk wouldn`t work very well !
Encouraged by unscrupulous and cheapskate companies to work staff far longer than they should, if salaried to get anything up to 70 hours for 48 hours pay, if hourly paid to have drivers working up to 70 hours earning what they should be in 48, same difference.
About the only time its worth using is if the pay is piece work or bonus pay related, and only then if the standard pay before piece/bonus pay is about average driver’s pay, and utilising POA can up to double that average wage, jobs like these often pay the drivers for stand down time too to bring their hours back into line.
I don’t blame OD’s using it, makes sense cos you’re usually on a sort of piece work rate anyway, more the lorry earns etc.
Salaried staff are the group who should not use it at all, nor should others who have to work excess hours to get only average wages, the company are getting an extra 25/50% hours and work out of the driver so the only ones who should use it are those being paid that 25/50% more than the rest.
Juddian:
POA is the biggest POS there is for most.
Encouraged by unscrupulous and cheapskate companies to work staff far longer than they should, if salaried to get anything up to 70 hours for 48 hours pay, if hourly paid to have drivers working up to 70 hours earning what they should be in 48, same difference.
About the only time its worth using is if the pay is piece work or bonus pay related, and only then if the standard pay before piece/bonus pay is about average driver’s pay, and utilising POA can up to double that average wage, jobs like these often pay the drivers for stand down time too to bring their hours back into line.
I don’t blame OD’s using it, makes sense cos you’re usually on a sort of piece work rate anyway, more the lorry earns etc.
Salaried staff are the group who should not use it at all, nor should others who have to work excess hours to get only average wages, the company are getting an extra 25/50% hours and work out of the driver so the only ones who should use it are those being paid that 25/50% more than the rest.
I have never in my life booked poa for all the reasons you point out, and due to the fact that it is just a clever cop out so it can be said we are ‘‘only’’ working x no. of hours on paper when in fact we are working much more. In other words it aint real, it’s designed to give a false impression, and to appease those who keep us waiting (rdc.s ) rather than insisting they get their ■■■■ acts together, …so I just refuse to play their stupid games.
I’d like to ask those who do book it why do they for what reason?
Is it pressure from their bosses, so they just comply?
Do they actually believe in it and agree with it?
Also is there anybody stupid enough to be doing it and not actually getting paid for it. …(that’s the best one,.and I doubt if anyone will own up to it due to them being embarrassed…and so you should be if you accept those terms. )
steelgoon:
I am hourly paid, overtime after 8 hours on a daily basis.
I use POA when it is needed, and appropriate. I also use breaks instead of POA if it suits me more.
I wouldn’t use it if I didn’t get paid for it - who would to be honest.
Never used it when I was salaried - it was driving or other work.
I am happy with the options of using it in my line of work, but each to their own.
Thats exactly how you do use POA, to make hay while the OT sun shines , and a proper job too with OT calculated on a daily not weekly basis …chapeau that man.
steelgoon:
I am hourly paid, overtime after 8 hours on a daily basis.
I use POA when it is needed, and appropriate. I also use breaks instead of POA if it suits me more.
I wouldn’t use it if I didn’t get paid for it - who would to be honest.
Never used it when I was salaried - it was driving or other work.
I am happy with the options of using it in my line of work, but each to their own.
Thats exactly how you do use POA, to make hay while the OT sun shines , and a proper job too with OT calculated on a daily not weekly basis …chapeau that man.
Yeh a classic example of turning the tables… by using a scheme designed to look as if we are working neo sensible hours when we are in reality getting shafted, to turning it to your advantage.
steelgoon:
I am hourly paid, overtime after 8 hours on a daily basis.
I use POA when it is needed, and appropriate. I also use breaks instead of POA if it suits me more.
I wouldn’t use it if I didn’t get paid for it - who would to be honest.
Never used it when I was salaried - it was driving or other work.
I am happy with the options of using it in my line of work, but each to their own.
Thats exactly how you do use POA, to make hay while the OT sun shines , and a proper job too with OT calculated on a daily not weekly basis …chapeau that man.
Yeh a classic example of turning the tables… by using a scheme designed to look as if we are working neo sensible hours when we are in reality getting shafted, to turning it to your advantage.
I find myself being obliged to record POA now, as the company are sending us out double-manned to “train up” some new (to us) drivers. It causes some amusement in the office as I hand in a printout at the end of the day correcting the POA recorded by the tachograph to Other Work. The reason I do this is that I am salaried and don’t relish the idea of being expected to cover longer runs in the future due to my “working hours” being lower than my colleagues…
robroy:
I’d like to ask those who do book it why do they for what reason?
I use it sometimes, when I want to manipulate my time to suit me.
For example, I might be given job 1, job 2, and job 3 to complete in a night. I know I’m in for 14-15 hours. I don’t want that many hours.
I arrive at job 1, and I know that I’ll be arriving at job 2 around 6 1/2 hours in to my shift. Instead of using 15 minutes of my break on a bay on job 1 to satisfy the 6 hour working rule, I use half hour of POA (which as we both know, pauses the clock) to manipulate my working time, so I can reach job 2 (at 6 1/2 hours) legally. Then I use more POA as they load me at job 2, and I’m usually in the waiting room or canteen drinking tea and reading. By now I’m on 7/12 hours as I leave to deliver the load. I ring my office “I’m leaving now, but need to have 45 minute break outaide the gate”. This causes an intentional delay and adds 45 minutes onto my night that wasn’t planned. When I’ve delivered job 2 I ring in and explain I haven’t got enough time to do job 3. After much umming and aaaring it’s agreed I just go back to the yard. finished in 12 1/2 hours, job’s a good 'un. Not only that, but I got a proper, restful break on my bunk, exactly as it should be.
So I use POA when necessary to manipulate my night, to suit me, to stretch it out, to enable me to get here or there and have a proper break, and to get work taken off me.
robroy:
I’d like to ask those who do book it why do they for what reason?
I use it sometimes, when I want to manipulate my time to suit me.
For example, I might be given job 1, job 2, and job 3 to complete in a night. I know I’m in for 14-15 hours. I don’t want that many hours.
I arrive at job 1, and I know that I’ll be arriving at job 2 around 6 1/2 hours in to my shift. Instead of using 15 minutes of my break on a bay on job 1 to satisfy the 6 hour working rule, I use half hour of POA (which as we both know, pauses the clock) to manipulate my working time, so I can reach job 2 (at 6 1/2 hours) legally. Then I use more POA as they load me at job 2, and I’m usually in the waiting room or canteen drinking tea and reading. By now I’m on 7/12 hours as I leave to deliver the load. I ring my office “I’m leaving now, but need to have 45 minute break outaide the gate”. This causes an intentional delay and adds 45 minutes onto my night that wasn’t planned. When I’ve delivered job 2 I ring in and explain I haven’t got enough time to do job 3. After much umming and aaaring it’s agreed I just go back to the yard. finished in 12 1/2 hours, job’s a good 'un. Not only that, but I got a proper, restful break on my bunk, exactly as it should be.
So I use POA when necessary to manipulate my night, to suit me, to stretch it out, to enable me to get here or there and have a proper break, and to get work taken off me.
One good thing about Amazon work is you know it’s all super time senstive. Normally when your planned tight, the planner will know it and have back up plans for your final job to ensure a driver gets their on time. Any driver with half a brain cell will use this knowledge to keep calm and not stress out all the time, it’s not rocket science.
POA works for me, as agency. I get paid POA, so as I get overtime after 8 hours, worked out daily, it makes sense to use it, as I am then free to work (and earn) more, later in the week.
) rather than insisting they get their ■■■■ acts together, …so I just refuse to play their stupid games.
…(that’s the best one,.and I doubt if anyone will own up to it due to them being embarrassed…and so you should be if you accept those terms. 
)