Maybe someone needs to stop digging
Just the reply i expected from the real biffo!
All these HATO’s had to do was sit on the hard shoulder just behind the recovery truck with lights flashing until the recovery guy had finished doing his job, has a extra safety measure.
If not doing this type of work,what is your job ■■?
This would have been alot safer than just leaving the guy alone on the hard shoulder next to a ‘live’ lane.
HATO’s…I woundn’t pay them in peanuts.
I blame the Volvo driver for breaking down, if he hadn’t done so then none of this would have happened. seems obvious to me. 
Maybe someone needs to stop digging
Nope, I’ll keep digging thanks. They asked a COMPLETELY untrained person what they should do, then testified that she had not received risk assessment training? I think at the very least, the HATO staff should be trained in risk assessment so that they can make their own INFORMED decisions.
Coffeeholic:
I blame the Volvo driver for breaking down, if he hadn’t done so then none of this would have happened. seems obvious to me.
Hell yeah, it goes without saying that a Volvo driver is ALWAYS to blame 
TTX boy:
Just the reply i expected from the real biffo!All these HATO’s had to do was sit on the hard shoulder just behind the recovery truck with lights flashing until the recovery guy had finished doing his job, has a extra safety measure.
If not doing this type of work,what is your job ■■?
This would have been alot safer than just leaving the guy alone on the hard shoulder next to a ‘live’ lane.HATO’s…I woundn’t pay them in peanuts.
If it was to dangerous the recovery driver could of called for assistance.
He didn’t, he did what we all do countless times in our lives and decided to crack on get it done and that decision cost him dearly.
One minute you morons don’t want to be baysat and told what to do. You moan about how 'elf 'n safety rules and risk assessment nonsense prevents us from exercising our own judgement and common sense then when something goes wrong…
Suddenly it’s “I wasn’t trained”, he/she wasn’t qualified to make that decision" etc etc etc 
During the bad weather let alone the good, I saw many recovery guys working un childminded by the HATOs without incident. It happens all the time.
Personally I have no issue either way with the HATO guys, there’s good and bad as in every profession.
I do believe there should be many more fully qualified and equipped police traffic cars on the road though.
That said if any of you who are of an age closer to puberty than medicals think it was any better way back when, trust me it wasn’t. If you broke down in a tricky spot you were not guaranteed an aramada of HMs finest Rovers to babysit you. In fact you were lucky if you could get them to turn out after hiking to an emergency phone and contrary to the rose tinted memories there most certainly was not a copper on every corner 
The Sarge:
Coffeeholic:
I blame the Volvo driver for breaking down, if he hadn’t done so then none of this would have happened. seems obvious to me.Hell yeah, it goes without saying that a Volvo driver is ALWAYS to blame
I wasn’t blaming him for his car choice, I was blaming him for breaking down.
Both my sons are in the recovery business and have the numbers they can call for lane closures and something they call a ‘Fend Off’. Both have said in this situation they would not have seen the need to request any assistance from the HATO’s.
Sarge, “Trained” in what?
You’re still not getting all the facts. the hato’s attended, the car was on the H/S, recovery was arranged, safety advice and further assistance was given to the driver, the driver was behind the barrier, advice on how to contact them if required was given, recovery would be at least 60 mins (probably longer due to being busy) THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THE HATO TO STAY.
The hato doesn’t need any training in how to recover vehicles.
The recovery wasn’t any different to the 1000’s that recovery drivers do each day.
The hato’s did exactly as they were supposed to do.
So “Trained in what” ■■? I can’t understand why people have got hung up on this, it’s a complete red herring.
TTX boy; The hato’s job is not baby-sitting every broken-down car on the motorway. If they come across a broken down vehicle,then their job is to check that all occupants are given safety advice (remember, they can’t force you not to sit in your car) that hazards are on, and that recovery has been arranged. for those without recovery, they’ll offer facilitated recovery, if refused, they advise of the 2 hour rule, then leave, to return later to check that the vehicle has been cleared from the scene.
If one of the recovery services has called into the control room with details about a broken down vehicle, if there are no specific reasons to attend and it’s just waiting for a straight forward recovery, then the hato patrol will not be sent to it, they’ll be informed of it, there is no requirement for them to even stop with it as they pass unless they see something untoward.
Hear hear real Biffo agree with everything you’ve said… I’ve seen on quite a few occasions probably more than I care to remember vehicles with there occupants still around a stranded/broken down vehicle in the hard shoulder of a motorway only for a police patrol vehicle to drive straight past them. Now I’m not casting any aspersions but this flys right in the face of a lot of the posts made in relation to this tragic case. And further more I have personal experience of an incident sum 12 yrs ago where I ran out of fuel on the M74 about 2 miles north of Johnstonebridge services, I clearly remember a police patrol 4x4 stopping to see what the problem was after I had made the walk to the services and back with a gallon can of fuel, only to flatten the vehicle’s battery attempting to start it again!! I informed the officer of my predicament and that the AA had been called and were awaiting their arrival, I’m sure at that point he said that was fine and would continue on with his patrol but would return later to make sure I had been sorted out and duly left. At the time I didn’t think anything of it but in fairness I think the officer using his experience had assessed the situation, time of year, weather, traffic conditions, my vulnerability etc before deciding to continue on with his patrol. But regardless of all of this, the hard shoulder is a dangerous place regardless of who or what you’re driving that includes HATO, police or breakdown vehicles and are just as vulnerable to careless drivers as is plain to see in this tragic case.
Coffeeholic:
The Sarge:
Coffeeholic:
I blame the Volvo driver for breaking down, if he hadn’t done so then none of this would have happened. seems obvious to me.Hell yeah, it goes without saying that a Volvo driver is ALWAYS to blame
I wasn’t blaming him for his car choice, I was blaming him for breaking down.
Both my sons are in the recovery business and have the numbers they can call for lane closures and something they call a ‘Fend Off’. Both have said in this situation they would not have seen the need to request any assistance from the HATO’s.
I assume the is because Mr Volvo crashed not broke down,
I have heard various descriptions of this story but Coffee, could you ask your lads a couple of questions,
-
Why would you strap the offside on a motorway especially in poor conditions, many of the recovery people ( with brains ) only strap nearside and tootle to the next junction ASAP before taking a chance on the offside.
-
Why the **** would you send an untrained teenager on a M/way job, with a high vis tied round his waist who prickar**s about under a car trying to attatch a strap when all it had was a flat tyre, talk about brain dead, but i suppose it takes allsorts
speedy, if you read the story Denis wasnt a prickarse teenager as you say, he was 60
speedyguy:
Coffeeholic:
The Sarge:
Coffeeholic:
I blame the Volvo driver for breaking down, if he hadn’t done so then none of this would have happened. seems obvious to me.Hell yeah, it goes without saying that a Volvo driver is ALWAYS to blame
I wasn’t blaming him for his car choice, I was blaming him for breaking down.
Both my sons are in the recovery business and have the numbers they can call for lane closures and something they call a ‘Fend Off’. Both have said in this situation they would not have seen the need to request any assistance from the HATO’s.
I assume the
Indeed.
speedyguy:
I have heard various descriptions of this story but Coffee, could you ask your lads a couple of questions,
- Why would you strap the offside on a motorway especially in poor conditions, many of the recovery people ( with brains ) only strap nearside and tootle to the next junction ASAP before taking a chance on the offside.
I just phoned my 19 year old and asked him what he does. In a situation like that he would load the car and strap just the front nearside wheel and then he would take a steady drive to the next junction or service area, or layby if not on a motorway, where he would finish off strapping it down.
speedyguy:
2. Why the **** would you send an untrained teenager on a M/way job, with a high vis tied round his waist who prickar**s about under a car trying to attatch a strap when all it had was a flat tyre, talk about brain dead, but i suppose it takes allsorts
No idea.
gogzy:
speedy, if you read the story Denis wasnt a prickarse teenager as you say, he was 60
Gogzy don’t want to be rude, but read my post i wan’t refering to the M60 recovery incident. but i read your earlier posts and you did talk some bollox so i have decided not to reply to them, but in case you misread this “the question above does not refer to the M60/MEN article.”
It was a question to/for coffee’s lad’s as i still cannot understand after watching the antics of aforementioned type of recovery person as to why they would pull that stunt when it was a ■■■■ sight safer/quicker to drive it onto the flatbed like i have seen ‘safer’ recovery guys doing hundreds of times before, of course there are many on here who will why ask ‘Why didn’t the Hato’s just change the wheel for someone ?’.
The answer Coffee’s lad came back with is the point i was refering to, better to be safe and shift as quick as possible because you never know when the next ‘white line drifter’ or sliding car will came at you, so it’s best to be gone ASAP.
I could go into answering all the questions put forward as to why things are done but you wouldn’t agree with them so why bother, off record i don’t agree with many of the ‘procedures’ we are supposed to follow as i feel that they put the public and staff at extra or unnecessary risk. And things should be shifted from the H/S as quick as pos but PROCEDURALLY the H/S is relatively safe compared to a live lane (as pointed out along with lots of other stuff by Biffo earlier).
The real Biffo:
So lets blame the HATO.
First of all the damaged vehicle was now on the H/S, not in a live lane, the driver was safely stood behind the barrier.
There are thousands of vehicles recovered from the H/S every day without lane closures or a jeep with flashing lights sat behind them. The recovery trucks themselves have full width beacons fitted, if not more!
So the road was slippery, that particular day, the whole of England was slippery! the gritters were working 24 hours none stop.
The recovery operator wasn’t repairing anything on the offside of the car, but was just putting the tie down straps over vehicles wheels to secure it to the recovery truck, this takes just a couple of minutes. The same that every recovery truck driver does at every breakdown he attends.
The car driver that hit the recovery operator hadn’t adjusted for the road conditions, lots of others that passed that spot had! Sorry, but it’s the car drivers fault, not the recovery driver, and certainly not the HATO’s.
The HATO followed correct procedures, they don’t have to know recovery procedures (neither do police) that’s the recovery drivers speciallity, the recovery driver followed correct procedures, If he’s thought that there was a additional risk over and above the normal risk of the job (and yes, it is a risky job) then he had the phone number to call for a HATO to re-attend to implement a lane closure if needed.
Do you honestly think that having a jeep with flashing lights sat behind the vehicle would have protected this recovery driver? ( It can make it worse, like moths to a light-bulb.)
I can tell you that on one day along during that cold spell, 2 police cars, two HATO cars and an ISU were struck on the H/S in our region alone. there is a large percentage of the great British driver that cannot adjust to driving in poor conditions
You guys drive the motorways all day, how many times do you see vehicles being recovered from the H/S 100’s, 1000’s? do you really want a lane closure putting on for every single one of them? if you do, then you’d need to expand the HATO service 10 fold!For wheel nut, when roads are closed for hours, it’s because someone has spread themselves or some else across the tarmac, and the POLICE are in charge of when and how long it stays closed whilst they carry out a full investigation, the HATO’s are there to stop the nutters that would move the cones out of the way and drive through it all.
And for “The Sarge” don’t talk crap! the procedure that HATO’s work to are copied from the police ones. The police would leave once the vehicle was on the H/S and they’d confirmed that recovery had been arranged.
^ +1
The Sarge:
A police officer would NEVER have left the vehicle there, unless they were called away to another job.
She left to “continue her normal patrol”■■ Translates as “this is cold, I’m off for a sit in my warm car and look important”
For the record that is bollox as well i have seen on numerous occasions for reasons only known to themselves for the police to put people with a flat tyre in the back of their own car when parked behind, that’s really handy moving them a lot more into the danger zone, leaving women and kids with bust wipers in atrocious weather conditions on H/S of M6 100ms from a sliproad with a petrol stations and with facilities, the list is endless but you just don’t know it as it isn’t ‘reported’ and yes some police do change wheels as do some hato’s both working outside procedures and both under threat of disciplinary if caught or reported by a passing recovery truck, colleague, supervisor or office manager.
Anyway i really don’t want to get too involved in this thread as it will just turn into a pointless slanging match
The real Biffo:
just a couple of minutes. The same that every recovery truck driver does at every breakdown he attends.
The car driver that hit the recovery operator hadn’t adjusted for the road conditions, lots of others that passed that spot had! Sorry, but it’s the car drivers fault, not the recovery driver, and certainly not the HATO’s.
I can tell you that on one day along during that cold spell, 2 police cars, two HATO cars and an ISU were struck on the H/S in our region alone. there is a large percentage of the great British driver that cannot adjust to driving in poor conditions
No one has asked yet why the inquest has been halted and refered back to the cps for a third time with regards to driver behaviour ?
speedyguy:
The Sarge:
A police officer would NEVER have left the vehicle there, unless they were called away to another job.
She left to “continue her normal patrol”■■ Translates as “this is cold, I’m off for a sit in my warm car and look important”For the record that is bollox as well i have seen on numerous occasions for reasons only known to themselves for the police to put people with a flat tyre in the back of their own car when parked behind, that’s really handy moving them a lot more into the danger zone, leaving women and kids with bust wipers in atrocious weather conditions on H/S of M6 100ms from a sliproad with a petrol stations and with facilities, the list is endless but you just don’t know it as it isn’t ‘reported’ and yes some police do change wheels as do some hato’s both working outside procedures and both under threat of disciplinary if caught or reported by a passing recovery truck, colleague, supervisor or office manager.
Anyway i really don’t want to get too involved in this thread as it will just turn into a pointless slanging match
Already has, which is why I’ve got an ever increasing ignore list thanks to insulting ■■■■■■■■ on here.
The Sarge:
speedyguy:
The Sarge:
A police officer would NEVER have left the vehicle there, unless they were called away to another job.
She left to “continue her normal patrol”■■ Translates as “this is cold, I’m off for a sit in my warm car and look important”For the record that is bollox as well i have seen on numerous occasions for reasons only known to themselves for the police to put people with a flat tyre in the back of their own car when parked behind, that’s really handy moving them a lot more into the danger zone, leaving women and kids with bust wipers in atrocious weather conditions on H/S of M6 100ms from a sliproad with a petrol stations and with facilities, the list is endless but you just don’t know it as it isn’t ‘reported’ and yes some police do change wheels as do some hato’s both working outside procedures and both under threat of disciplinary if caught or reported by a passing recovery truck, colleague, supervisor or office manager.
Anyway i really don’t want to get too involved in this thread as it will just turn into a pointless slanging match
Already has, which is why I’ve got an ever increasing ignore list thanks to insulting [zb] on here.
But you also never answered that question about moving over into lane 2 ‘just in case’ and there was’nt anything insulting about that.
If I am reading some posts correctly, HATO are being criticsied for leaving the recovery truck to load the vehicle without a fend-off. As far as I am aware, and I do not know many of the facts of this incident, HATO left scene long before recovery arrived. Was the recovery driver hit whilst on the offside of the truck? If so, this shows either complacency or inexperience and please do not take that has being disrespectful towards the recovery driver, but I have seen very few operatives strap down on the offside.Perhaps we should all wait until the coronor’s verdict and his recommendations??
TBH, HATO’s are dammed if they do, dammed if they don’t.
If the HATO had of stayed until recovery was complete, it’s possible that the car would have smashed into the HATO vehcile and killed her instead.
If HATO had of closed the inside lane to help with recovery, how many on here would be moaning about a lane closure just to recover a broken down vehcile?
How many videos have we all seen where people smash into vehciles on the hard shoulder EVEN with a police presence.
I blame the car driver.
Overall a tragic incident.