M5 Fatal smash

robroy:

jakethesnake:
If they are OD’s and trying to save fuel I can kind of get it,

REALLY■■? Why put peoples lives at risk just to save fuel■■? CRAZY

Just what I thought when reading that.
I certainly can’t ‘‘kind of get it’’ nor know anybody who does it tbh.

What I meant was that I can’t see any logical reason for any who doesn’t pay for fuel to do it. And I see it all the time.

I wasn’t saying that it’s okay if you are an OD doing it - it’s just one possible reason. However there are literally none if you are just an employee.

HGV drivers are probably the worst culprits for tailgating. And it boggles my mind. Smashing into the back of another truck is one of the few things that kill a truck driver. That an hitting reinforced concrete etc.

newmercman:
It doesn’t matter what caused the low loader and ■■■■■■ van to stop, the Merc was travelling too fast and too close, clearly proven by the resulting carnage.

With traffic volumes what they are, there just isn’t enough room on the roads anymore, maybe it’s time for M25 style variable speed limits on all busy roads. Much less chance of not being able to stop in time and if you don’t, the impact will be less severe and everyone goes home after.

That type of damage could have just as likely resulted from them not being stopped at all and the driver behind not reacting to something as simple as a 30 mph speed differential which drivers have to deal with as a matter of course everywhere such as in the case of cyclists on single carriage roads.In which case lower speeds won’t solve it if the real problem is drivers failing to react at all to slower/stopped traffic ahead of them and then just running into it.

There has to be a point where we say that we can’t fix that problem by continually dumbing down speeds when we’ve already tried that at 56 mph and which obviously isn’t working.As opposed to asking questions like why was the truck that ran into them in lane 1 at that point approaching the obviously slower moving,if not stopped,hazard ahead and the excuse of being blocked by overtaking traffic won’t cut it because at that point it’s time to make the call to slow down and maintain seperation distance to the slower moving obstruction ahead or even stop.

sammym:
HGV drivers are probably the worst culprits for tailgating. And it boggles my mind. Smashing into the back of another truck is one of the few things that kill a truck driver. That an hitting reinforced concrete etc.

There are also two types of tailgating.One is deliberate and the other just don’t know any better in not having a clue how to deal with speed differentials and maintaining seperation distances accordingly.

We’re also seeing an increasing amount of examples of ‘drivers’ just failing to react at all to obstructions ahead of them such as the recent mini bus example.Which is just as scary.

Carryfast:

SteveBarnsleytrucker:
This happened right on the junction between the exit and entry slip roads, I wonder if traffic were slowing down or had come to a stop due to the roadworks the next junction up for the M5/M42 split and the driver at the back wasn’t concentrating or you’ve had some idiot force their way on to the motorway off the entry slip to beat the truck with the abnormal load

It’s all a bit strange.Surely the ■■■■■■ van would have been expected to be in lane 2 covering the wide out size load ?.While surely the truck behind would be expected to be in lane 3 at that point.Nothing else makes any sense. :confused:

Complete with plenty of flashing light and hi viz markings.

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ROG:
Thoughts with all that knew the escorting van driver

I can think of a few ways this could have happened

I wish they would introduce 2 second gap cameras with pre 5 second video footage so many incidents could be avoided

+1

yt03:

jakethesnake:
If only all the people who jump inbetween trucks in traffic would see this

You have a strange logic :open_mouth:

Why is that a strange logic?? People need educating on what can happen… some people are lacking something upstairs, you being one of them I think :unamused:

Most drivers know what can happen but tend to ignore the fact that they could be involved in the next one.And as a now retired truck driver you know what gets me?

You are correct some drivers do cut in but a lot of truck drivers do not leave sufficient room from the vehicle in front sometimes leaving other drivers no choice.
Also what really gets me is when a vehicle does cut in the lorry driver does not do what he or she should do. Back off! Instead they sit right close behind being a big dik.
Some drivers are just ■■■■■■■ in reality.

I am reminded of one that happened back in the 90s on the Southbound M5 on the hill just North of Bristol.

A large mobile crane was traveling South in the early hours of the morning and a fully freighted artic just ran into the cast iron ballast at the back. From the look of it, he was probably still on the limiter when he hit, as the unit was pretty much squashed flat.

Santa:
I am reminded of one that happened back in the 90s on the Southbound M5 on the hill just North of Bristol.

A large mobile crane was traveling South in the early hours of the morning and a fully freighted artic just ran into the cast iron ballast at the back. From the look of it, he was probably still on the limiter when he hit, as the unit was pretty much squashed flat.

Ironically it all seems to contradict the point of having ‘escorts’.If they are going to drive into a slow moving oversized truck and load then they’re probably also going to take out an ■■■■■■ that’s in their way.Might as well just rely on plenty of yellow flashing lights on the back of the trailer and along the sides of the load and leave it at that. :bulb:

Following distance is the thing, or rather the lack of it. I was away from the UK for a few years and went driving for a couple of weeks upon my return, I ■■■■ my pants after the first lorry passed me as I joined the M25, he was back in so close I thought he’d take my wipers off, I jumped on the brakes as a windscreen full of back doors is not a pleasant view, the driver behind me had to swing out into the middle lane to avoid me as he was right up my arse and gave me a dirty look and the coffee bean sign as he passed me and then came back over before I could see his back lights!

During the next couple of weeks it became clear that this was normal behaviour, I’d took no notice of it before, but a few years away had really highlighted how dangerous it was. I’m no little old lady, in the pre limiter days I spent most of my time in the middle lane cruising at 65mph and letting her go off the clock on a long downhill stretch, because of this there was always someone in my way, but I managed to drive in this fashion without crashing into the back of anything, even though I was traveling considerably faster than traffic today and in a vehicle with significantly worse brakes, how? By leaving a safe distance between me and the vehicle in front, even if I was giving a middle lane merchant the lights and horns to get them to get out of my way.

I know that today’s traffic volumes and driver behaviour makes that difficult, as soon as you leave a gap someone will fill it, but that doesn’t mean that you need to risk your life and the lives of others, if you can’t see far enough ahead to be able to avoid crashing should traffic suddenly stop then you’re going too fast and you’re too close, if you do nothing to change that, the next thread like this could have the wreckage of your lorry plastered all over the internet.

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SteveBarnsleytrucker:
This happened right on the junction between the exit and entry slip roads, I wonder if traffic were slowing down or had come to a stop due to the roadworks the next junction up for the M5/M42 split and the driver at the back wasn’t concentrating or you’ve had some idiot force their way on to the motorway off the entry slip to beat the truck with the abnormal load causing him to slam on and the van then the truck at the back has gone stright in to the back of them at near enough full speed. Absolutely tragic for all involved including the emergency services and RIP to the person just out doing his job. It’s more than likely that pic has been took not long after it happened and the poor bloke is still actually inside the van in this pic, well what’s left of him :neutral_face:

The traffic had stopped due to a HGV being recovered.
The wide load and the ■■■■■■ stopped, the artic didn’t.

109LWB:
It’s not unusual for the vehicle to be removed to a safe and controlled site in order for the person to be extracted in horrific incidents like this.

Recall speaking to a customer in Bristol who’s company had to recover a car that had been flattened by a rolled over container truck. The fire service and police had to carefully chip away at what was left of the car in order to get to the body without further damaging it. Took several hours and wasn’t really suitable to be done at the scene.

Recovery drivers must be made of Stone, risking thier lives everyday and then having to deal with stuff like that.

I worked the crash unit for more than 5yrs straight, all I did was hang around the yard waiting for the call, I’m out of it now but still keep my hand in for weekends & holiday cover. It’s a lot busier than most folk realise, our area covers half a city then half the county so we have all types of roads covered. We also have the crime vehicles but that’s a totally different ball game.

It is VERY unusual for recovery to be on scene with the bodies still there. We are civillians & treated as such by all the services but it does happen & when it does you know beforehand & told what to expect. I’ve never met anyone who’s hardened to it & that includes the services. The best way to deal with it is to not make it personal. I quickly learned to stop reading news follow ups to the ones we recover, you do not want the names, the circumstances, the ‘back story’ in your head.

I have a particularly horrific story I tell to those who insist, not even hollywood could create a scenario so horrible, of the few I’ve told it too no one has ever wanted more. It made my dad wipe a tear when I sat with him shortly after.

It is difficult to be near a vehicle in the yard with the mobile ringing & it is difficult to not turn that phone off. Nobody touches them 'cos you soon learned to realise what’s happening. What did it for me was a baby seat covered in blood, I knew that 3 people were reported to have died & looking at the car that’s mum & dad in the front, they certainly died instantly, & baby in the back. It really hits you if you understand that dead bodies don’t bleed.

The fire brigade often practice in our yard, we supply them with lots of vehicles off to the scrap yard & it is a joy to watch their teamwork, their intensity of focus & how they solve problems on the spot. It was while watching them years ago that I asked the crew chief how they dealt with it, he scribbled down a number & said I could ring this 24/7.

Please don’t ever think anyone involved in this is made of stone, we’re not.

The one BIG thing I have learned & it’s something I tell everyone, “you can be the best driver in the world but it does not stop you being involved in someone else’s bad driving”. Have a think about that !

newmercman:
Following distance is the thing, or rather the lack of it. I was away from the UK for a few years and went driving for a couple of weeks upon my return, I [zb] my pants after the first lorry passed me as I joined the M25, he was back in so close I thought he’d take my wipers off, I jumped on the brakes as a windscreen full of back doors is not a pleasant view, the driver behind me had to swing out into the middle lane to avoid me as he was right up my arse and gave me a dirty look and the coffee bean sign as he passed me and then came back over before I could see his back lights!

During the next couple of weeks it became clear that this was normal behaviour, I’d took no notice of it before, but a few years away had really highlighted how dangerous it was. I’m no little old lady, in the pre limiter days I spent most of my time in the middle lane cruising at 65mph and letting her go off the clock on a long downhill stretch, because of this there was always someone in my way, but I managed to drive in this fashion without crashing into the back of anything, even though I was traveling considerably faster than traffic today and in a vehicle with significantly worse brakes, how? By leaving a safe distance between me and the vehicle in front, even if I was giving a middle lane merchant the lights and horns to get them to get out of my way.

I know that today’s traffic volumes and driver behaviour makes that difficult, as soon as you leave a gap someone will fill it, but that doesn’t mean that you need to risk your life and the lives of others, if you can’t see far enough ahead to be able to avoid crashing should traffic suddenly stop then you’re going too fast and you’re too close, if you do nothing to change that, the next thread like this could have the wreckage of your lorry plastered all over the internet.

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Absolutely spot on with that post newmercman. A lack of travelling distance in the UK seems to be the norm with some these days. It is called complacency in my book and it is frightening that some drivers do not understand the consequences. They just will not back off. All in such a hurry and no regard for human safety in a lot of cases. Makes my blood boil!

FWIW, I think sat navs are to blame for a lot of this behaviour. They give false confidence to people who probably shouldn’t be driving at all, and these same people take comfort from looking at the screen rather than the scary happenings in front of them.

My ex-wife got sent on a naughty course because she was caught racing a motorbike in her Fiat Coupe Turbo.

She was made to sit at a table with three other women, and everyone had to ‘confess’ as to why they were there.

The other women all said they had been caught speeding because they were unaware of the speed limit, didn’t see the camera warning signs and didn’t see the camera/police vehicle. They said they didn’t like driving, and their way of coping was to just concentrate on the sat nav and try not to worry about what was happening ‘outside’. They used the sat nav even on regular trips like the school run. Dealing with texts and phone calls was another occupation to help take their minds off all the nasty stuff going on on the roads.

My ex-wife said that although parts of the course were intended to shock attendees into behaving with more caution on the road, by far the most shocking part of it was the three other women.

as far as im aware,then volvo discovered that because the stuff how safe their cars are down your throat,then a lot of folk in volvos had accidents due to their logic if implied invincibility.
i had to take the useless course of boredom instead of points a while ago,and though a complete waste of everyones time,then the women actively taking part had no clue as to the different speed limits on dual carrigeways and A roads an such.
it made no odds anyway as the majority of drivers have no concern with limits,and drive to suit themselves,but none of the women were aware of passing cameras or vans,though the men that took part,could relate to where they got done.
speeding to some of the women was required to get rid of the brats in the morning,or to get home and make the tea in the evening before the bottle of wine came out.
their logic and excuses for speeding was amazing.
id imagine for the most part,the reason for most crashes like this,is having speed limiters in trucks,plus brain dead boredom on cruise control in crappy jobs.
if your flat out lit,then you tend to be looking as to where your going,and if theres a ballsup then its no worse that the one on here.

dieseldog999:
id imagine for the most part,the reason for most crashes like this,is having speed limiters in trucks,plus brain dead boredom on cruise control in crappy jobs.
if your flat out lit,then you tend to be looking as to where your going,and if theres a ballsup then its no worse that the one on here.

While agreeing that boredom and dumbing down speeds isn’t helping nor the solution I also don’t think that any amount of boredom,nor the difference between running 65 mph v 56 mph,can possibly explain why the truck that ran into the STGO load in this case wasn’t in lane 3 even if the traffic ahead was stopping/stopped and why the one involved in the recent similar minibus collision wasn’t at least in lane 2 and preferably 3.These muppets are unsafe at any speed and if they can’t drive at 56 mph they certainly ain’t going to get any better at 65 mph.

Alfa1M:

Tj916:
I was involved with the resurfacing after this.
The van was the ■■■■■■ vehicle for the wide load.
The driver of the wide load obviously in bits as he knew the deceased.
The sixty year old driver of the artic escaped with cuts and bruises even though the boom of the excavator came through the windscreen.
RIP and thoughts with family and friends.

[zb] horrendous.

Out of interest, what was the chemicals spilt? I assumed diesel at first but then I don’t think it would of required resurfacing work?

Diesel and Paraffin are great for removing bitumen

jakethesnake:

yt03:

jakethesnake:
If only all the people who jump inbetween trucks in traffic would see this

You have a strange logic :open_mouth:

Why is that a strange logic?? People need educating on what can happen… some people are lacking something upstairs, you being one of them I think :unamused:

Most drivers know what can happen but tend to ignore the fact that they could be involved in the next one.And as a now retired truck driver you know what gets me?

You are correct some drivers do cut in but a lot of truck drivers do not leave sufficient room from the vehicle in front sometimes leaving other drivers no choice.
Also what really gets me is when a vehicle does cut in the lorry driver does not do what he or she should do. Back off! Instead they sit right close behind being a big dik.
Some drivers are just [zb] in reality.

I never once said truck drivers are saints, they are just as bad… we should know better when to back out of it I totally agree, car drivers also need to learn about putting themselves in danger. You pretty much have to think for half of them these days.

Carryfast:

Santa:
I am reminded of one that happened back in the 90s on the Southbound M5 on the hill just North of Bristol.

A large mobile crane was traveling South in the early hours of the morning and a fully freighted artic just ran into the cast iron ballast at the back. From the look of it, he was probably still on the limiter when he hit, as the unit was pretty much squashed flat.

Ironically it all seems to contradict the point of having ‘escorts’.If they are going to drive into a slow moving oversized truck and load then they’re probably also going to take out an ■■■■■■ that’s in their way.Might as well just rely on plenty of yellow flashing lights on the back of the trailer and along the sides of the load and leave it at that. :bulb:

The mobile crane did not have an ■■■■■■, but have you ever seen one on the road that wasn’t lit up like Blackpool illuminations? Escorts are usually found with wide or extra-long loads.

yt03:

jakethesnake:

yt03:

jakethesnake:
If only all the people who jump inbetween trucks in traffic would see this

You have a strange logic :open_mouth:

Why is that a strange logic?? People need educating on what can happen… some people are lacking something upstairs, you being one of them I think :unamused:

Most drivers know what can happen but tend to ignore the fact that they could be involved in the next one.And as a now retired truck driver you know what gets me?

You are correct some drivers do cut in but a lot of truck drivers do not leave sufficient room from the vehicle in front sometimes leaving other drivers no choice.
Also what really gets me is when a vehicle does cut in the lorry driver does not do what he or she should do. Back off! Instead they sit right close behind being a big dik.
Some drivers are just [zb] in reality.

I never once said truck drivers are saints, they are just as bad… we should know better when to back out of it I totally agree, car drivers also need to learn about putting themselves in danger. You pretty much have to think for half of them these days.

There’s a flaw in that statement, you have to think for all of them, not just half of them, it’s the way it has always been, expect the unexpected and believe that every other road user is a complete idiot and will do something stupid and you’ll be a lot safer.

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Accidents like this are why truck drivers aren’t treated as professionals. It only takes a minority of truck drivers to ruin it for all the others. Whenever a truck hits stationary traffic it always ends badly. Everyone moans about technology but the sooner automatic braking or forward alerts are mandatory the better for everyone .