Judge was spot on giving 14 years for the Pole,
I will never get where the 40 months for killing 8 people comes from.
Not even touched brakes…
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I think Mr Wagstaff has been very lucky indeed to get off with 40 months, but given that the jury let him off with causing death by careless driving he was always going to get a lighter sentence than the AIMs driver, you can turn it round any way you like but it has to be said that it was Mr Wagstaffs driving that resulted in the deaths of 8 people, in-spite of the reckless things done by the AIMs driver everyone was still alive until Mr Wagstaff arrived on the scene and never even noticed that a vehicle with hazard lights on was stationary in front of him and an artic with lights on was stationary in front of that.
I don’t doubt that he’s a decent bloke and all that but if I was a relative of one of the people killed in the accident I would not feel that justice had been done.
Driving God’s we all are judging the outcome. I can’t help but think that Wagstaff is no different to most of us ( well realistic ones anyway) we all do stupid things. I can’t imagine two years in prison, away from family and in a totally hostile scenario. ( He will only serve half). That day his luck and the luck of the occupants of the mini bus ran out. I’m similar age to Wagstaff and hope that should my luck run out someone would give me a chance. Nobody won here. Hopefully some of us learned a lesson.
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tachograph:
I think Mr Wagstaff has been very lucky indeed to get off with 40 months, but given that the jury let him off with causing death by careless driving he was always going to get a lighter sentence than the AIMs driver, you can turn it round any way you like but it has to be said that it was Mr Wagstaffs driving that resulted in the deaths of 8 people, in-spite of the reckless things done by the AIMs driver everyone was still alive until Mr Wagstaff arrived on the scene and never even noticed that a vehicle with hazard lights on was stationary in front of him and an artic with lights on was stationary in front of that.I don’t doubt that he’s a decent bloke and all that but if I was a relative of one of the people killed in the accident I would not feel that justice had been done.
By that logic he’s been a lot less lucky than the driver who was cleared of any offence in the case of the M62 minibus incident.
tachograph:
I think Mr Wagstaff has been very lucky indeed to get off with 40 months, but given that the jury let him off with causing death by careless driving he was always going to get a lighter sentence than the AIMs driver, you can turn it round any way you like but it has to be said that it was Mr Wagstaffs driving that resulted in the deaths of 8 people, in-spite of the reckless things done by the AIMs driver everyone was still alive until Mr Wagstaff arrived on the scene and never even noticed that a vehicle with hazard lights on was stationary in front of him and an artic with lights on was stationary in front of that.I don’t doubt that he’s a decent bloke and all that but if I was a relative of one of the people killed in the accident I would not feel that justice had been done.
According to the press conference after the sentences were announced, the family representatives are not happy with the verdict at all !!
(trying to find the link, but sure someone will beat me to it)
The maximum sentence for death by careless is 5 years so the judge has given the maximum sentence but has then had to apply the discount for pleading guilty early.
As has been said many times blame the system, not those following it
P Stoff:
Hopefully some of us learned a lesson.
Ironically the lesson is that the job takes more responsibility than that of a train driver regarding forward observation and planning often with more severe results and greater penalties for getting it wrong.No ifs no buts.
Correct: Maximum sentence awarded to both for the crimes they have been convicted of. Wagstaff is then entitled to a one third discount for his early guilty plea.
Sad set of events with many lives ruined, Wagstaffe will one day walk as a free man ( probably a broken spirit) but will taste the joys of freedom as will at some point the Pole.
The deceased never to walk this earth again it doesn’t matter what race, creed or gender may they RIP.
stokesentinel.co.uk/news/st … nt-1377658
Family statement on video embedded in the story.
They are questioning the technology on the motorway not alerting traffic to the obstruction & the law allowing hands-free mobile phone use as well as the Wagstaff verdict.
The judge earlier paid tribute to the dignity shown by the family, in allowing a fair trial and not playing the victim game while it was in progress.
What did Wagstaff do that was actually dangerous? Phone was legal but he wasn’t paying attention. How many of us haven’t done that before? Was just unlucky with the consequences that time. Clearly careless but can’t call it dangerous.
The pole stopped in a live lane for no reason, clearly dangerous. Add the aggravating factors of being drunk, banned and multiple recent offences and he is probably lucky they didn’t push for manslaughter.
Rip to all involved
The family representative made some very good points. Especially the bit about if the minibus hadn’t been there then Wagstaff would probably no longer be with us. I can see why they are annoyed with his sentence.
And many comments have been made on here, in the last however many pages, to do with this tragedy that it was Wagstaff that actually dealt the final blow.
kcrussell25:
What did Wagstaff do that was actually dangerous? Phone was legal but he wasn’t paying attention. How many of us haven’t done that before? Was just unlucky with the consequences that time. Clearly careless but can’t call it dangerous.The pole stopped in a live lane for no reason, clearly dangerous. Add the aggravating factors of being drunk, banned and multiple recent offences and he is probably lucky they didn’t push for manslaughter.
Rip to all involved
I’m no driving god, but FFS if ever it gets to the stage that I pile into a ■■■■■■■ stationary vehicle (with its hazard flashers on) without even registering the fact that it’s there, let alone making any attempt to hit the brakes or even slow down a bit then bloody use the humane killer on me then and there. The man’s a Grade One ■■■■ and deserves every last minute of the pathetic sentence he got. I hope he ■■■■■■■ suffers every moment of his time inside.
It should also be noted that Wagstaffe’s driving was found not to be dangerous - just careless.
Roymondo:
kcrussell25:
What did Wagstaff do that was actually dangerous? Phone was legal but he wasn’t paying attention. How many of us haven’t done that before? Was just unlucky with the consequences that time. Clearly careless but can’t call it dangerous.The pole stopped in a live lane for no reason, clearly dangerous. Add the aggravating factors of being drunk, banned and multiple recent offences and he is probably lucky they didn’t push for manslaughter.
Rip to all involved
I’m no driving god, but FFS if ever it gets to the stage that I pile into a [zb] stationary vehicle (with its hazard flashers on) without even registering the fact that it’s there, let alone making any attempt to hit the brakes or even slow down a bit then bloody use the humane killer on me then and there. The man’s a Grade One [zb] and deserves every last minute of the pathetic sentence he got. I hope he [zb] suffers every moment of his time inside.
It should also be noted that Wagstaffe’s driving was found not to be dangerous - just careless.
This was my point regards the verdict/sentence. I probably should have made that clearer.
For what its worth I think if it had been a “hand held” call rather than “hands-free” he would also have got dangerous rather than careless
Of course, what will never be addressed is the fact that human beings aren’t supposed to be awake at that time of night.
I wonder if Wagstaffes mate is on the phone to him as much now? I wonder has it sank in yet? I doubt it.
kcrussell25:
What did Wagstaff do that was actually dangerous? Phone was legal but he wasn’t paying attention. How many of us haven’t done that before? Was just unlucky with the consequences that time. Clearly careless but can’t call it dangerous.
I’ve done plenty of night driving on motorways and appreciate how mind numbing it can be, but he was driving in traffic, he had traffic in front at the side and behind him and apparently was still completely oblivious to what was going on around him.
That’s dangerous not just careless.
From memory the definition of dangerous driving is something like driving in a manner that’s likely to put other people at risk, if you’re completely oblivious to the other traffic around you I’d say it’s definitely dangerous.
Sent from my mobile.
mattecube:
I wonder if Wagstaffes mate is on the phone to him as much now? I wonder has it sank in yet? I doubt it.
hes had months to chew it over so itll have sunk in. i expect hes lying on one of her majestys bunks right now chatting in hushed tones to his cellmate
Harry Monk:
Of course, what will never be addressed is the fact that human beings aren’t supposed to be awake at that time of night.
By that logic the railways would be littered with crashed or stopped trains during night running and the seaways with anchored or sunken ships.There would be planes falling out of the sky and factories wouldn’t be able to handle the level of industrial accidents caused by night shifts.While loads of night trunkers over the years wouldn’t have managed to do the job for decades followed by a peaceful retirement.
Having said that switching between day and night work or driving tired for whatever reason is another matter.
P Stoff:
Driving God’s we all are judging the outcome. I can’t help but think that Wagstaff is no different to most of us ( well realistic ones anyway) we all do stupid things. I can’t imagine two years in prison, away from family and in a totally hostile scenario. ( He will only serve half). That day his luck and the luck of the occupants of the mini bus ran out. I’m similar age to Wagstaff and hope that should my luck run out someone would give me a chance. Nobody won here. Hopefully some of us learned a lesson.Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
Is the correct answer.