dieseldog999:
at what part was his driving dangerous apart from carelessly not being as alert as he should be?
thats why he aint getting a dangerous and only a careless ( as if that isnt enough for the poor sod)
never judge a man till you walk a mile in his shoes.
wrong place,wrong time and only doing what masses of truckied constantly do day and night.just bad luck for him.
I’m never going to claim that I’ve always had 100% concentration on the road, but when you’re in a queue of traffic, even if you haven’t got your mind anywhere near 100% on what you’re doing when the vehicles in front move out to lane 2 that should be enough to bring your concentration back to the road ahead, but instead of that he never even noticed that there was two vehicles in front and one of them with hazard lights on.
To lack concentration is one thing but to be completely oblivious to what’s going on around you, even when what’s going on around you is changing in an obvious way, is dangerous not just careless.
I wish the bloke luck but still think he was extremely lucky to get off with causing death by careless driving.
dieseldog999:
if the bus wasnt there,then there would be no mr fedex,he would be slaughtered.
there would also be no big trial or media hype looking for blood as 1 truckie creaming another one with a drunk driver isnt exactly big news compared to a bus load of indians getting wiped out.
the flipflop is getting locked up with a chocolate key…mr fedex will be on the receiving end of justice seeing to be done to appease the media,and for the same reason,i dont really see any incompetent careless blame going to the bus driver which is just the way itl be reported by all in court and in the media.
the guilty plea will have helped him tremendously and all the charges laid against him were so they could drop the biggies on a guilty plea for the lessers without any hard work for the prosecution.
You can never fool a Dog, and certainly not a dieseldog, well said
dieseldog999:
at what part was his driving dangerous apart from carelessly not being as alert as he should be?
thats why he aint getting a dangerous and only a careless ( as if that isnt enough for the poor sod)
never judge a man till you walk a mile in his shoes.
wrong place,wrong time and only doing what masses of truckied constantly do day and night.just bad luck for him.
I’m never going to claim that I’ve always had 100% concentration on the road, but when you’re in a queue of traffic, even if you haven’t got your mind anywhere near 100% on what you’re doing when the vehicles in front move out to lane 2 that should be enough to bring your concentration back to the road ahead, but instead of that he never even noticed that there was two vehicles in front and one of them with hazard lights on.
To lack concentration is one thing but to be completely oblivious to what’s going on around you, even when what’s going on around you is changing in an obvious way, is dangerous not just careless.
I wish the bloke luck but still think he was extremely lucky to get off with causing death by careless driving.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
were all right and all wrong for the same reasons in judging them.
just be thankful its someone else.
i had a mate worked on one of those motorway maintenance trucks with the mega huge flashing arrow to get out of the lane,and the big padded buffer massive marshmallow thing on the back and it wasnt uncommon for folk to just get hypnotised by the lights and run smack into the back of him…
dieseldog999:
at what part was his driving dangerous apart from carelessly not being as alert as he should be?
thats why he aint getting a dangerous and only a careless ( as if that isnt enough for the poor sod)
never judge a man till you walk a mile in his shoes.
wrong place,wrong time and only doing what masses of truckied constantly do day and night.just bad luck for him.
I’m never going to claim that I’ve always had 100% concentration on the road, but when you’re in a queue of traffic, even if you haven’t got your mind anywhere near 100% on what you’re doing when the vehicles in front move out to lane 2 that should be enough to bring your concentration back to the road ahead, but instead of that he never even noticed that there was two vehicles in front and one of them with hazard lights on.
To lack concentration is one thing but to be completely oblivious to what’s going on around you, even when what’s going on around you is changing in an obvious way, is dangerous not just careless.
I wish the bloke luck but still think he was extremely lucky to get off with causing death by careless driving.
I read your post and something sprung into my mind.
“Change blindness is a perceptual phenomenon that occurs when a change in a visual stimulus is introduced and the observer does not notice it. For example, observers often fail to notice major differences introduced into an image while it flickers off and on again.[1] People’s poor ability to detect changes has been argued to reflect fundamental limitations of human attention. Change blindness has become a highly researched topic and some have argued that it may have important practical implications in areas such as eyewitness testimony and distractions while driving.”
id guess Wags might be reading this thread i mean hes been off work waiting on the trial what dyou do with your days and months leading up to trial just prior youd been on the very humdrum treadmill of life- and suddenly now this ? and its not over yet-but he cant comment on here as be in a shedload more trouble if he did. i wouldnt think the Polish guys followin the thread and the Indian mob, and the truckers who passed it all/ and the ambo lot… wrecking crews -reading here?- but cant write about it on here- but then again who knows .
dieseldog999:
never judge a man till you walk a mile in his shoes.
Then you’ll be a mile away and safely away from Wagstaff ploughing into the back of you while he natters away on the phone about useless ■■■■ while not watching what he’s supposed to be doing… although you will also be wearing his shoes
He with no sin cast the first stone…
I seem to have an issue with these modern white lens indicators. A couple of times I have been trundling long to the beet factory on the A10 and a car has been stopped turning right. For some reason I have not registered it and realised a bit late. Luckily I have stopped but I could so easily be a subject of such a thread. I’m sure I’m not alone!
dieseldog999:
never judge a man till you walk a mile in his shoes.
Then you’ll be a mile away and safely away from Wagstaff ploughing into the back of you while he natters away on the phone about useless [zb] while not watching what he’s supposed to be doing… although you will also be wearing his shoes
Ok mate, it’s all well condemning this guy as public enemy no.1, but can I ask you …
Do you ever use a phone on hands free when driving?
If the answer is ‘No’, well you have made a choice, and well done for sticking to it.
Also…
Are you able to fully concentrate 100% for the entire 9 or 10 hours that you are driving in traffic?
No need to answer, as we both know that it is humanly impossible to do so…as this guy found out big style.
Now whether he should or he should not have been concentrating fully is another argument, in hindsight of course he should, as also found out, but a fact is a fact.
Not excusing this guy for making a mega epic balls up, but it could quite easily have been me, (or you ) because no matter how hard I try I can not concentrate a full 100% of my driving time.
I agree with those who are saying that the minibus driver would have faced the same charges had he survived. To drive a minibus professionally - which he was doing - requires at least a D1 licence. A PCV driver has it made quite clear to him that his primary concern at all times is the welfare and safety of his passengers. The minibus, which was being used for hire and reward over 50 km, clearly had more than eight seats so would also have been subject to tachograph and driver’s hours regulations, which would include a record of the rest period before commencing work.
I don’t know whether a transcript of the evidence before the jury has been published or not, but I would be most surprised if Wagstaff’s defence counsel had not brought this to the jury’s attention which may account for the verdict in relation to Dangerous Driving.
tachograph:
I’m never going to claim that I’ve always had 100% concentration on the road, but when you’re in a queue of traffic, even if you haven’t got your mind anywhere near 100% on what you’re doing when the vehicles in front move out to lane 2 that should be enough to bring your concentration back to the road ahead, but instead of that he never even noticed that there was two vehicles in front and one of them with hazard lights on.
To lack concentration is one thing but to be completely oblivious to what’s going on around you, even when what’s going on around you is changing in an obvious way, is dangerous not just careless.
I wish the bloke luck but still think he was extremely lucky to get off with causing death by careless driving.
I read your post and something sprung into my mind.
“Change blindness is a perceptual phenomenon that occurs when a change in a visual stimulus is introduced and the observer does not notice it. For example, observers often fail to notice major differences introduced into an image while it flickers off and on again.[1] People’s poor ability to detect changes has been argued to reflect fundamental limitations of human attention. Change blindness has become a highly researched topic and some have argued that it may have important practical implications in areas such as eyewitness testimony and distractions while driving.”
I have to admit that I’ve never even heard of Change Blindness before.
As interesting as it is I find it hard to believe that a change as big as a vehicle in front moving to another lane so that what’s seen in front is completely different would not be noticed because of change blindness.
The sight of the rear-end of a vehicle gradually being replaced by the sight of 2 stationary vehicles one with hazard lights on is a massive visual change and I struggle to see how it could be put down to change blindness.
We are Forgetting that in front of Mr fed ex was a Trailer & Drag unit.
He moved over But Mr Fed x Still didn’t see the danger.
This wouldn’t have happened If drivers weren’t Drink driving,Lack of sleep and most of all Selfish People who did nothing except beep the horn and drive past.God forbid if the Driver actually was having a heart attack etc
cav551:
I agree with those who are saying that the minibus driver would have faced the same charges had he survived. To drive a minibus professionally - which he was doing - requires at least a D1 licence. A PCV driver has it made quite clear to him that his primary concern at all times is the welfare and safety of his passengers. The minibus, which was being used for hire and reward over 50 km, clearly had more than eight seats so would also have been subject to tachograph and driver’s hours regulations, which would include a record of the rest period before commencing work.
I don’t know whether a transcript of the evidence before the jury has been published or not, but I would be most surprised if Wagstaff’s defence counsel had not brought this to the jury’s attention which may account for the verdict in relation to Dangerous Driving.
They might have done, but depending on the make up the jury, some would have seen this as blaming a dead man for his own death and that of his passengers, rather than stating the obvious, that this “professional” driver had acted un professionally, and must bare some of the blame, even posthumously.
The more I think about it, I believe the Wagstaff’s actions with regard to acceptance of his part in this whole sorry affair, might have led to the Jury believing that the weight of the burden he will carry for the rest of his life, did not need adding to.
cav551:
I agree with those who are saying that the minibus driver would have faced the same charges had he survived. To drive a minibus professionally - which he was doing - requires at least a D1 licence. A PCV driver has it made quite clear to him that his primary concern at all times is the welfare and safety of his passengers. The minibus, which was being used for hire and reward over 50 km, clearly had more than eight seats so would also have been subject to tachograph and driver’s hours regulations, which would include a record of the rest period before commencing work.
I don’t know whether a transcript of the evidence before the jury has been published or not, but I would be most surprised if Wagstaff’s defence counsel had not brought this to the jury’s attention which may account for the verdict in relation to Dangerous Driving.
They might have done, but depending on the make up the jury, some would have seen this as blaming a dead man for his own death and that of his passengers, rather than stating the obvious, that this “professional” driver had acted un professionally, and must bare some of the blame, even posthumously.
The more I think about it, I believe the Wagstaff’s actions with regard to acceptance of his part in this whole sorry affair, might have led to the Jury believing that the weight of the burden he will carry for the rest of his life, did not need adding to.
It’s only a guess, but I think you could be right. I’m still trying to work out why the AIM driver was in Lane 1 and I don’t think he’s ever answered that properly, unless I’ve missed something.
He was blind drunk…he’d been seen going the wrong way around a roundabout earlier.
He ‘forgot’ to tell his employer he’d had his licence revoked, turned up for work drunk and had a bit more to top-up while he was driving.
I’ve heard he’d got huge personal problems…his own haulage biz had gone under and his wife had left him. Whether this was the cause of his drinking or the effect of his drinking, we’ll never know.
As I get older, I’m seeing an increasing number of lives ruined by drink. A mate of mine, with a drink problem of his own, lost his 30-year-old daughter to a lethal mix of drink and anorexia … the year he was meant to walk her up the aisle he ended up carrying her coffin into church. And that is bloody hard.
I used to really enjoy a quiet drink, and sometimes even a noisy one (or six). I still drink a bit, but it’s really not hard to say no now.
Interesting stuff there GasGas, I’ve only looked at Clip1. Noticed at about 3.03 there are some hazards flashing on the other carriageway, is that someone pulled up to call it in?
My question, maybe BossHogg can reply, are there actually any people that monitor these CCTV’s, especially as this one was at junction exit?
One comment I have to say, lots of people there going both ways, wonder how many actually called it in, or was it just a case of “not my problem!!!” ? Especially those going up the off-slip !!!
buses:
We are Forgetting that in front of Mr fed ex was a Trailer & Drag unit.
He moved over But Mr Fed x Still didn’t see the danger.
This wouldn’t have happened If drivers weren’t Drink driving,Lack of sleep and most of all Selfish People who did nothing except beep the horn and drive past.God forbid if the Driver actually was having a heart attack etc
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
your forgetting its illegal to stop on the motorway except in an emergency and all you would need is one normal plobbing attitude problem traffic cop with the a similar amount of perspective as a traffic cone to also stop,then do you for stopping yourself .
its just the way the world is now.
years ago you wouldnt think twice about bunging in hitchikers and stopping for some wifey broken down.
nowadays its more likely to have you mugged by a junkie with her baps out looking for help,or some feminist vegietarian whale kissing wifey accusing you of all sorts because you stopped and approached her.
in that respect then they can ■■■■ up their equality.
buses:
We are Forgetting that in front of Mr fed ex was a Trailer & Drag unit.
He moved over But Mr Fed x Still didn’t see the danger.
This wouldn’t have happened If drivers weren’t Drink driving,Lack of sleep and most of all Selfish People who did nothing except beep the horn and drive past.God forbid if the Driver actually was having a heart attack etc
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
your forgetting its illegal to stop on the motorway except in an emergency and all you would need is one normal plobbing attitude problem traffic cop with the a similar amount of perspective as a traffic cone to also stop,then do you for stopping yourself .
its just the way the world is now.
years ago you wouldnt think twice about bunging in hitchikers and stopping for some wifey broken down.
nowadays its more likely to have you mugged by a junkie with her baps out looking for help,or some feminist vegietarian whale kissing wifey accusing you of all sorts because you stopped and approached her.
in that respect then they can ■■■■ up their equality.
I see what your saying as to helping random car drivers etc.
But this is a Fellow driver.If some cop wants to do me for checking on a driver that is parked in lane one,Then so be it.
If in doubt either stop or report it. I worked with a bloke years ago who one night about half midnight saw a woman pushing a pram and was holding the hand of a four year old. He thought it odd but ignored it. He found out the woman drowned them all including herself due to a row with her husband.
Right, here’s a question for all you drivers. Because of what I’ve just seen in that clip ( 12 minutes of passing traffic, not even 1 stopping to see what was happening) !!
You’re on a motorway and see a broken down car in a live lane, or an object in a live lane that could cause an accident.
Seriously, hand on heart, how many of you will…
Either stop at the next phone to contact HA
or…
Call it in straight away on your mobile to HA ( and please don’t give it large of you can’t drive and phone it’s illegal, this is an emergency)
) because no matter how hard I try I can not concentrate a full 100% of my driving time.