The jury’s out
P Stoff:
Carryfast:
Blue Day:
While it’s an offence to be seen using a hand held phone, regardless of whether driving has been affected, this is not the case for hands-free phones. If you’re seen not to be in control of a vehicle while using a hands-free phone you can be prosecuted for that offence.It’s a can of worms because that could easily translate as if you’re involved in a collision while using a hands free device it can only affect any defence against resulting charges ?.
Ironically I agree with the premise that if you need to chat on the phone then you need to stop in a safe place to do it no ifs no buts.Also don’t think there’s any justification or place for use of cruise control in UK traffic and road conditions and would refuse to use it if any employer instructed me to.
However it seems unfair to then penalise drivers for possibly getting caught up in the contradictory application of the law in that regard.
XPO mark you down if you don’t use cruise control as much as possible on their weekly performance charts. It seems saving fuel more important
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I know I’m an old Luddite, but I really can’t see how any type of cruise control can be more economical than a good driver with his wits about him. We hired a bloody volvo (car) on one of our trips over there and every time something pulled out from a slip or side road or overtook and pulled back in, leaving plenty of room the throttle wound itself back, even though there was absolutely no need for it. It then had to accelerate again, using more fuel. I turned it off after going through the 3,000 page ■■■■■■■ manual!
Masierak guilty of death by dangerous driving. Jury still out on other driver.
Just heard this on 5 o’clock news. Looking like a long stretch for him.
Yeah just heard that. I think the other guy will get the same…can’t see it being anything other really.
Very sad set of circumstances but as somebody said earlier in this thread, all three drivers had a hand in this disaster, the mini bus driver if he’d been more switched on would have realised very quickly sitting there in a live lane was a very bad idea. God only knows what the polish chap was thinking/doing and as said the fed-ex guy was probably just tired, zoned out if you like, as anybody that’s done nights before will know all about.
‘they add so much to this country’
SuperMultiBlue:
‘they add so much to this country’
Who, fedex drivers■■?
Think the first verdict was a foregone conclusion and I don’t hold out much hope for Mr Wagstaff either.
fingers crossed the Pole gets a real shocker sentence. i dunno what the maximum hit is,but he needs it. the judge needs to hammer it home the consequences , 10 yrs jail + lifetime ban from driving anything motorized ?
theres a fair percentage of the EE mob heading into work half cut ,i see EE blokes in their 20s at quarter to 9am most days carrying beer from the shop heading in to work to drink as they work . [not truck drivers just port workers nontheless they as a region have no regards for our laws ]
corij:
fingers crossed the Pole gets a real shocker sentence. i dunno what the maximum hit is,but he needs it. the judge needs to hammer it home the consequences , 10 yrs jail + lifetime ban from driving anything motorized ?theres a fair percentage of the EE mob heading into work half cut ,i see EE blokes in their 20s at quarter to 9am most days carrying beer from the shop heading in to work to drink as they work . [not truck drivers just port workers nontheless they as a region have no regards for our laws ]
I trust your hoping the sentences are fair and consistent to both parties!
Considering he entered a plea of not guilty, I would imagine a sentence in double figures is a foregone conclusion, as for a lifetime driving ban I’m not sure if that’s enforced in Poland especially once we leave the EU
bigdave789:
Considering he entered a plea of not guilty, I would imagine a sentence in double figures is a foregone conclusion, as for a lifetime driving ban I’m not sure if that’s enforced in Poland especially once we leave the EU
The trucks maybe automanise by the time he is free
simcor:
Think the first verdict was a foregone conclusion and I don’t hold out much hope for Mr Wagstaff either.
I agree, I’m afraid I don’t see how the jury can come to any other conclusion.
Sent from my mobile.
mattecube:
corij:
fingers crossed the Pole gets a real shocker sentence. i dunno what the maximum hit is,but he needs it. the judge needs to hammer it home the consequences , 10 yrs jail + lifetime ban from driving anything motorized ?theres a fair percentage of the EE mob heading into work half cut ,i see EE blokes in their 20s at quarter to 9am most days carrying beer from the shop heading in to work to drink as they work . [not truck drivers just port workers nontheless they as a region have no regards for our laws ]
I trust your hoping the sentences are fair and consistent to both parties!
iv often said,over the years ,to friends id love to be a judge for a day. send someone who was up in front of me for parking fines to life imprisonment with no parole. to see their reaction - id keep a straight face as i order him to be “take him down” [later the same day is released ]
bleve itd be a good deterrent
Drink Driving for my age group (late 40’s) was always taboo. I wouldn’t dream of having a drink then driving off. Yet the culture of East Europeans seems to be of heavy drinking and they see it as normal to drive whilst unfit.
Maybe its time to start dishing out some very severe custodial sentences to stamp this problem out.
Copied from the Sentencing Council Guidelines
SENTENCING FOR CAUSING DEATH BY DRIVING THE OFFENCES
Causing death by driving is divided into four offences. These are:
causing death by dangerous driving;
causing death by careless driving when under the influence of drink or drugs;
causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving; and
causing death by driving: unlicensed, disqualified or uninsured drivers.
The main factor that varies between these offences is how much the offender is to blame.
For dangerous driving the standard of the offender’s driving will have been so bad as to have created an obvious
risk of danger.
In cases of careless driving the level of blame can vary enormously from being on the borderline of dangerous
driving to as little as misjudging the speed of another vehicle or momentary inattention while tuning a car radio.
Where the driver is under the influence of drink or drugs this further increases the level of blame. In cases of
driving while unlicensed, disqualified or uninsured the blame arises from driving when not being allowed to do so.
THE SENTENCE
An offender is sentenced either after pleading guilty to the offence or being found guilty following a trial. The
judge or magistrates may sentence immediately or may adjourn the case to obtain reports on the offender.
The harm caused by any offence that results in a person’s death is immeasurable. The sentence can never be a
measure of the value put on the life of the victim. In sentencing cases of causing death by driving, the court has
to weigh up the enormous harm of a loss of life with the seriousness of the act or omission of the offender who
caused it.
HOW ARE SENTENCES DECIDED?
The judge or magistrates will decide the appropriate sentence by taking into account the facts of the case and
applying the relevant sentencing guidelines.
The judge or magistrates will consider:
how responsible the offender was for what happened;
other offences committed at the same time such as driving a stolen vehicle or failing to stop;
the serious harm caused by the offence, including whether more than one person was killed or injured;
whether the offender was seriously injured or was a close friend or relative of the victim; and
the circumstances and history of the offender, such as previous convictions or previous good character,
giving assistance at the scene and remorse.
In any case resulting in a person’s death the impact of the offence will, of course, be assessed as very serious.
If the victim’s family has chosen to make a victim personal statement the court will use the information it contains
when assessing the impact of the crime. If no victim personal statement is made the court will assess the impact
of the crime from the evidence.
The maximum prison sentence the court can impose for causing death by dangerous driving or careless
driving under the influence of drink or drugs is 14 years; for causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving it
is five years; and for causing death by driving whilst unlicensed, disqualified or uninsured it is two years. The
maximum sentence is reserved for rare cases where blame is exceptionally high.
For some offences of causing death by careless or inconsiderate driving or causing death by driving whilst
unlicensed, disqualified or uninsured where the offender is not considered to pose a danger of re-offending and
the level of fault is low, a community sentence may be deemed a more effective form of punishment and
rehabilitation than imprisonment. In some cases where the level of fault is very low the offender may be fined.
If the offender pleads guilty the sentence will be reduced by up to one third depending on how early the
plea was made.
All sentences will include a minimum period of disqualification from driving followed by:
a compulsory extended re-test for causing death by dangerous driving or careless driving while under the influence of drink or drugs; or
a discretionary re-test for causing death by careless driving or while unlicensed, disqualified or uninsured.
The disqualification period runs from the sentencing, or enforcement if earlier (not from when an offender is
released from prison).
WHAT DOES THE SENTENCE ACTUALLY MEAN?
If the offender is sent to prison the law states that they will serve half their sentence in prison and half on licence
in the community. During the licence period they are subject to recall to prison if they commit any further offences
or breach any conditions that may be set.
If the offender is sentenced to a community sentence the exact details of the order will vary from case to case but
it is likely to include supervision and unpaid work.
Considering the standard of his driving, being twice over the limit, and the not guilty plea, it’s now up to the judge to decide what level of responsibility he has for what happened, the number of people killed or injured, any previous convictions or good character, wether he gave any assistance at the scene and has he shown any remorse.
It doesn’t matter which way you look at it, he has to be looking at a hefty sentence.
mattecube:
bigdave789:
Considering he entered a plea of not guilty, I would imagine a sentence in double figures is a foregone conclusion, as for a lifetime driving ban I’m not sure if that’s enforced in Poland especially once we leave the EUThe trucks maybe automanise by the time he is free
Yes I think the only driving he’s going to be involved with for the foreseeable future is when Big Errol drives his manhood into our Polish former colleague’s lower bowel while spending his days on E Wing
Thing is, though, Ryszard may apply to serve his inevitable incarceration back home in the 'ol mother country. And then released for “good behaviour” or some such after a shorter than intended bang up.
msgyorkie:
Drink Driving for my age group (late 40’s) was always taboo. I wouldn’t dream of having a drink then driving off. Yet the culture of East Europeans seems to be of heavy drinking and they see it as normal to drive whilst unfit.
Maybe its time to start dishing out some very severe custodial sentences to stamp this problem out.
I’m of the age where putting a seat belt on is automatic and drink driving is just not done. But I’ve been in a few country pubs where young lads have had a few pints then jumped into their car. Sometimes out in the countryside there seems to be a different culture.