kr79:
has anyone noticed how many of these accidents in london involve tipper. Be intresting to see how many compared to the percentage of these types trucks on the road in london.
Not tipper driver bashing as i am one
Maybe it’s because tippers and other building delivery type vehicles are a common type of vehicle found in London.The problem seems obvious to me.Elf and safety wouldn’t allow cycles to be ridden in a yard amongst loads of moving and turning trucks,at least if a few of them had got run over doing it,so why is the same thing considered to be safe on the roads when it’s obvious that cycles need to be seperated from such types of transport by putting them where they belong on the pavement.If the cyclists don’t like that idea because it’ll mean slower journey times tough.In just the same way that 20 mph speed limits in town are inconvenient but often a great safety improvement.
Talk about biased, that last vid is so poorly set up you couldn’t see a car next to you. How often do you sit at an angle like that? You should be seeing the cyclists as you drive up to them in a straight line surely. And where is the mirror on the top of the door? All trucks I’ve driven have one.
Look I’ve said before, it’s illegal to ride on the pavement, if the police could get off their doughnut filled arses they would charge cyclists, they have recently in the Cambridge area I believe. I don’t know why this topic comes up so often tbh, it’s the same thing time after time & nothing will happen until people realise all road users have responsibility to keep themselves, and other road users, safe.
Quite like all the hiviz stuff on the bloke on the bike in the photo. Maybe TfL could see their way to making the bikes painted a bit brighter, to at least give folks a fighting chance.
kr79:
has anyone noticed how many of these accidents in london involve tipper. Be intresting to see how many compared to the percentage of these types trucks on the road in london.
Not tipper driver bashing as i am one
As C/F has posted a lot the lorry traffic in central London is construction related,as there is a constant flow of demolition&reconstruction in the city, the thing that has changed is the rise of the aggressive cyclist &their pious “I’m better than you attitude” the sooner there is compulsory registration & insurance for cyclists the better, then they could be held accountable for their actions!btw I’ve got a bike, the last place I’d ride it is London!
best way too solve it is just ban all trucks over 10 tons from london and the problem is solved, build warehouses on the outskirts of the city where all the big wheelers drop there cargoes and it’s then takem on into london in the vans. all other indevisable loads that need speciliased haulage can be arranged for nighttime delivery being escorted.
Hey you are correct Seany, my bad, how odd that you can only see it when the camera is outside the vehicle, you cannot see it from inside the cab. not much good as a mirror then. A very poor set up as far as I’m concerned.
scotstrucker:
best way too solve it is just ban all trucks over 10 tons from london and the problem is solved, build warehouses on the outskirts of the city where all the big wheelers drop there cargoes and it’s then takem on into london in the vans. all other indevisable loads that need speciliased haulage can be arranged for nighttime delivery being escorted.
Ive got a better,cheaper and much simpler idea. How about banning cyclists from the roads and leaving the roads for motorized transport only
Or better still, just not do anything at all, keep it how it is and let them chance their lives everyday if they want to. Good cyclists live, bad cyclists die.
scotstrucker:
best way too solve it is just ban all trucks over 10 tons from london and the problem is solved, build warehouses on the outskirts of the city where all the big wheelers drop there cargoes and it’s then takem on into london in the vans. all other indevisable loads that need speciliased haulage can be arranged for nighttime delivery being escorted.
Ive got a better,cheaper and much simpler idea. How about banning cyclists from the roads and leaving the roads for motorized transport only
Or better still, just not do anything at all, keep it how it is and let them chance their lives everyday if they want to. Good cyclists live, bad cyclists die.
^ This.The choice is there let them take their pick.In general the argument against putting them on the pavement where they belong seems to be that cyclists don’t want to increase their journey times by the resulting speed reductions and don’t want to give pedestrians the same consideration as cyclists expect from motor vehicle drivers.
The more carp i read from drivers the more i give up, some of things said here i would expect from a young kids customised car forum infested by baseball hatted half wits.
Are these drivers who seem unable to take cyclists into account those same ones who claim to be professional lorry drivers, who complain at the poor pay thats on offer for their immaculate services?
Note the word thats banded about so often, indeed it forms part of the heading of the forum in question…Professional.
Part of being professional is being in charge of your vehicle, of knowing whats in its corner cutting route at any time, whats under your windscreen at any time, you are responsible.
In an area where cyclists dash around like London the pro should be on even higher alert than normal.
No they shouldn’t put themselves in silly places but they do, they do not have the knowledge or the nous to know what arc a lorry will make when it moves, if they did they be bloody professional lorry drivers and earning £50k a year as they’d have more idea than some here.
We drive killing machines they are not toys, its our responsibility to assume every other road user is an idiot, they usually are, and its part of our brief to make allowances and to think for other road users who are not professionals, if we bollox up or there is someone else’s bollox up we don’t usually get hurt but other people can get horribly injured and killed.
It might be entirely the cyclists fault in a serious accident but that doesn’t change the fact that a moving lorry went over some poor blighter.
If you are professional lorry drivers start acting, and sounding, like it.
scotstrucker:
best way too solve it is just ban all trucks over 10 tons from london and the problem is solved, build warehouses on the outskirts of the city where all the big wheelers drop there cargoes and it’s then takem on into london in the vans. all other indevisable loads that need speciliased haulage can be arranged for nighttime delivery being escorted.
Ive got a better,cheaper and much simpler idea. How about banning cyclists from the roads and leaving the roads for motorized transport only
Or better still, just not do anything at all, keep it how it is and let them chance their lives everyday if they want to. Good cyclists live, bad cyclists die.
^ This.The choice is there let them take their pick.In general the argument against putting them on the pavement where they belong seems to be that cyclists don’t want to increase their journey times by the resulting speed reductions and don’t want to give pedestrians the same consideration as cyclists expect from motor vehicle drivers.
Blimey! The first time I’ve ever agreed with something Carryfast has written…
Juddian:
The more carp i read from drivers the more i give up, some of things said here i would expect from a young kids customised car forum infested by baseball hatted half wits…snip
We drive killing machines they are not toys,
We don’t drive killing machines we drive machines that can kill. There is a very real difference and the use of such emotive language adds as little to the debate as some of the other extreme/stupid/unrealistic/provocative statements from others. It also detracts from some of the quite, IMHO, sensible observations that you made in the post from which the quote comes.
Juddian:
The more carp i read from drivers the more i give up, some of things said here i would expect from a young kids customised car forum infested by baseball hatted half wits…snip
We drive killing machines they are not toys,
We don’t drive killing machines we drive machines that can kill. There is a very real difference and the use of such emotive language adds as little to the debate as some of the other extreme/stupid/unrealistic/provocative statements from others. It also detracts from some of the quite, IMHO, sensible observations that you made in the post from which the quote comes.
Fair comment that, should have read it better before posting…consider my wrist well and truly slapped…
Juddian:
The more carp i read from drivers the more i give up, some of things said here i would expect from a young kids customised car forum infested by baseball hatted half wits.
Are these drivers who seem unable to take cyclists into account those same ones who claim to be professional lorry drivers, who complain at the poor pay thats on offer for their immaculate services?
Note the word thats banded about so often, indeed it forms part of the heading of the forum in question…Professional.
Part of being professional is being in charge of your vehicle, of knowing whats in its corner cutting route at any time, whats under your windscreen at any time, you are responsible.
In an area where cyclists dash around like London the pro should be on even higher alert than normal.
No they shouldn’t put themselves in silly places but they do, they do not have the knowledge or the nous to know what arc a lorry will make when it moves, if they did they be bloody professional lorry drivers and earning £50k a year as they’d have more idea than some here.
We drive killing machines they are not toys, its our responsibility to assume every other road user is an idiot, they usually are, and its part of our brief to make allowances and to think for other road users who are not professionals, if we bollox up or there is someone else’s bollox up we don’t usually get hurt but other people can get horribly injured and killed.
It might be entirely the cyclists fault in a serious accident but that doesn’t change the fact that a moving lorry went over some poor blighter.
If you are professional lorry drivers start acting, and sounding, like it.
So are you saying that you want to base blame on vulnerability of the road users involved in the accident or on who was actually responsible for the accident regardless of vulnerability .
So are you saying that you want to base blame on vulnerability of the road users involved in the accident or on who was actually responsible for the accident regardless of vulnerability .
Neither, every accident is judged on its merits, its the attitudes displayed here i’m concerned about.
The Trucknet CSI defence committee jumped in with both size tens as usual as soon as the OP went up here.
As i tried to point out on my post, it doesn’t matter even if a cyclist is 100% to blame, it will still be that poor buggers blood on the ground, and another lorry hits the headlines for injuring or killing a vulnerable road user…who has every right to be there just like us.
We as a vocational group have to get away from this ‘‘keep out of my juggernauts way’’ mentality that seems to creep in, we need a change in attitude and to try as lorry drivers to make ourselves as safe for everyone else as possible.
We have to share the roads with all sorts of other traffic, we are still importing people at an unstustainable rate so if anything the overcrowding problems on the road are only going to get worse, so we better get used to it.
We might be safe in our cabs high above the action but we have a responsibility to others to take into account their lack of road knowledge, we are supposed to be professionals.
So are you saying that you want to base blame on vulnerability of the road users involved in the accident or on who was actually responsible for the accident regardless of vulnerability .
Neither, every accident is judged on its merits, its the attitudes displayed here i’m concerned about.
The Trucknet CSI defence committee jumped in with both size tens as usual as soon as the OP went up here.
As i tried to point out on my post, it doesn’t matter even if a cyclist is 100% to blame, it will still be that poor buggers blood on the ground, and another lorry hits the headlines for injuring or killing a vulnerable road user…who has every right to be there just like us.
We as a vocational group have to get away from this ‘‘keep out of my juggernauts way’’ mentality that seems to creep in, we need a change in attitude and to try as lorry drivers to make ourselves as safe for everyone else as possible.
We have to share the roads with all sorts of other traffic, we are still importing people at an unstustainable rate so if anything the overcrowding problems on the road are only going to get worse, so we better get used to it.
We might be safe in our cabs high above the action but we have a responsibility to others to take into account their lack of road knowledge, we are supposed to be professionals.
I think you’ve missed the point I was making.Reading that it does seem to me as though you’re allowing the issue of vulnerability to cloud your judgement.In the case such as I’ve described,of a cyclist overtaking a vehicle that’s indicating to turn left or right,or for that matter rides a cycle alongside a vehicle without sufficient room,that poor zb ( idiot ) on the cycle who gets wiped out actually has no right to be there at all.While it’s doing those idiots no favours at all to put them into the false sense of security that the truck driver ( or car driver ) will always see them assuming they choose to ignore the basic rules of survival on the roads,like the rule of not trying to overtake vehicles that are indicating to make a turn.
All that drivers can do in that situation is to do everything possible to check out what’s going on around the vehicle before and during the course of a turn.However ‘everything possible’ often won’t be enough in the case of road users like cyclists trying to overtake a turning vehicle especially in the case of artics.As I’ve said the problem doesn’t seem to be such an issue in the case of motorcyclists who are just as vulnerable v a truck or a car and just as difficult to keep a look out for in the mirrors.
Here’s a clue one of the biggest killers of motorcyclists used to be that typical case of a motorcyclist overtaking a vehicle that was indicating to turn right.I think the issue was sorted more by educating motorcyclists of the dangers of such stupid acts.As opposed to making sure that drivers checked their offside mirrors before and during the turn which obviously won’t always work in seeing the idiot in time and stopping the turn.
Here’s a clue one of the biggest killers of motorcyclists used to be that typical case of a motorcyclist overtaking a vehicle that was indicating to turn right.
Sorry to ■■■■ in but being a motorcyclist all my life I have issues with your statement.
The problem with a lot of the cases when a vehicle is signalling right and a motorcyclist overtakes is usually caused by poor position of the vehicle turning right and also the poor position of the vehicle behind it.
Have you ever noticed how a lot of drivers do not position themselves to the left of the white center line when turning right but tend to just adopt the normal road position or even sit to the left for some strange reason.
The motorcyclist because of the poor positioning can see no left signal and overtakes probably because he can see no reason for the vehicles slowing down.
Bad driving causes accidents and there is too much of it about.The only way forward is having qualified drivers assessed to eliminate their bad driving habits that they are not aware of.
albion1971: Here’s a clue one of the biggest killers of motorcyclists used to be that typical case of a motorcyclist overtaking a vehicle that was indicating to turn right.
Sorry to ■■■■ in but being a motorcyclist all my life I have issues with your statement.
The problem with a lot of the cases when a vehicle is signalling right and a motorcyclist overtakes is usually caused by poor position of the vehicle turning right and also the poor position of the vehicle behind it.
Have you ever noticed how a lot of drivers do not position themselves to the left of the white center line when overtaking but tend to just adopt the normal road position or even sit to the left for some strange reason.
The motorcyclist because of the poor positioning can see no left signal and overtakes probably because he can see no reason for the vehicles slowing down.
Bad driving causes accidents and there is too much of it about.The only way forward is having qualified drivers assessed to eliminate their bad driving habits that they are not aware of.
The case which I’m describing is/was in the case of a motorcyclist approaching a vehicle from behind which is/was showing a right hand indicator and then overtaking it on the offside just as it starts turning . Or overtaking a line of vehicles along the offside or the nearside that are waiting behind a vehicle that’s about to turn right or left followed by the inevitable.
I’ve never been a biker but in the car or truck world the last thing I’d want to do in the case of vehicles slowing down ahead and I don’t know why is to even think about overtaking them.
The issue of cyclists being collected by turning vehicles seems to be a case of sheer stupidity based on ignorance of basic common sense and survival instincts of never running alongside to overtake a vehicle that’s possibly about to turn at the side of you.Therefore it’s that stupidity that needs to be sorted not the doubtful issue of truck drivers arguably turning without sufficient use of mirrors before and during the turn in many cases.As I’ve said if the problem was one of such a basic lack of driving skills,on the part of truck drivers,it would logically result in many more different types of collisions, between trucks and many other types of vehicles,street furniture,and pesestrians not just cyclists.With motorcyclists obviously being involved in such collisions to a large degree not just cyclists.The problem is more one of bad overtaking on the part of cyclists not one of bad observation while turning on the part of truck drivers.
Carryfast:
snip…
I’ve never been a biker but in the car or truck world the last thing I’d want to do in the case of vehicles slowing down ahead and I don’t know why is to even think about overtaking them.
The issue of cyclists being collected by turning vehicles seems to be a case of sheer stupidity based on ignorance of basic common sense and survival instincts of never running alongside to overtake a vehicle that’s possibly about to turn at the side of you.Therefore it’s that stupidity that needs to be sorted not the doubtful issue of truck drivers arguably turning without sufficient use of mirrors before and during the turn in many cases.As I’ve said if the problem was one of such a basic lack of driving skills,on the part of truck drivers,it would logically result in many more different types of collisions, between trucks and many other types of vehicles,street furniture,and pesestrians not just cyclists.With motorcyclists obviously being involved in such collisions to a large degree not just cyclists.The problem is more one of bad overtaking on the part of cyclists not one of bad observation while turning on the part of truck drivers.
I have been a cyclist and, many years ago, a RoSPA instructor/examiner. I am aware that practice/advice has changed since my time but we never advised passing a vehicle on the side of an indicator that was active.
Albion makes some very valid points with road positioning and, when you see how often no indicator is used road position may be the ONLY clue as to a driver intent. A real scenario: On the road into my estate you turn off an arterial road and I, more often than not, turn right. I have lost count of the number of times, having left a roundabout 50m before the turning, people try and pass as I am slowing & indicating to make that turn. So much so that I will now position my off side wheels on the center white line closing the available overtaking space when there is no oncoming traffic. I should also state that this is a residential street with vehicles parked on the road side, driveways, a bus stop, a school and shops within a 1/2 mile radius so there are always going to be potential hazards to address.
Final comment on your suggestion about joint pedestrian/cycle paths. While cycles are entitled to use the road we really should expect to meet them and drive accordingly. The idea of [zb] them they have most to lose is as repulsive to me as the “i’m environmentally responsible get out of my way” some of the lycra warriors seem to have adopted.
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Or overtaking a line of vehicles along the offside or the nearside that are waiting behind a vehicle that’s about to turn right or left followed by the inevitable.