phil the book:
Just one question lads will the driver get any more money for all this i seem to remember 28 to 32 to 38 to 44 ton was always a promise of more dosh but it never quite appeared its all getting bigger except the money .
I also remember my first foray into chemical tanker work. I used to load regularly at Eaglescliffe and it was a quick loading point, you did it yourself with an alarm clock, exactly 1 tonne per minute, so with my F10 and tandem axle trailer I set the clock for 19 minutes. It weighed out perfectly on the bridge at 32500kg
Roll the clock forward 30 years and the 6 axle 44 tonne outfits will struggle to carry 26 minutes worth of chrome liquor.
30 years later and an increase of 7 tonne payload, yet the vehicles are 11500kg apart in their Gross Weights.
Carryfast and ■■■■ Denby are probably on day release from the same care home!
phil the book:
Just one question lads will the driver get any more money for all this i seem to remember 28 to 32 to 38 to 44 ton was always a promise of more dosh but it never quite appeared its all getting bigger except the money .
I also remember my first foray into chemical tanker work. I used to load regularly at Eaglescliffe and it was a quick loading point, you did it yourself with an alarm clock, exactly 1 tonne per minute, so with my F10 and tandem axle trailer I set the clock for 19 minutes. It weighed out perfectly on the bridge at 32500kg
Roll the clock forward 30 years and the 6 axle 44 tonne outfits will struggle to carry 26 minutes worth of chrome liquor.
30 years later and an increase of 7 tonne payload, yet the vehicles are 11500kg apart in their Gross Weights.
Carryfast and ■■■■ Denby are probably on day release from the same care home!
Which just shows that the ineffiencies of the tractor unit semi trailer idea increase proportionally as you increase the gross weights.How much of that 11.5 T difference in gross weights is made up by differences in the tractor unit weight and would it be as bad with a 40 tonner gross two axle unit outfit.But your timer comparison would probably look a ‘bit different’ with an eight wheeler rigid coupled to a five axle drawbar trailer (being that we’re British) more like 18 minutes for the rigid’s load and then around thirty minutes for the trailer so plenty of time to get the tele on. But the rail freight lot would probably sabotage the trailer while I’m having my break .But having said that it’s probably a local uk running job anyway so I’ll give it a miss and use the six wheeler prime mover instead on something better.But if you read my posts I can’t understand why you think that I’ve got any agreement with the Denby bog roll carrier b train.
bobthedog:
I wonder if you just came up with this insistance that the drawbars used in Scandinavia would work in the uk just to be difficult.
No it’s just based on common sense which any one who can’t understand why a fully freighted doubles A train (if they’d allow it) would be more efficient running across Canada than a 62 tonner gross b train would obviously have a problem with and I could certainly find a decent six wheeler drawbar prime mover or heavy haulage tractor unit for a lot less than £100,000.
It would be no more efficient. It would be more ■■■■■■■■■■■ it would be more hazardous for other idiots on the road… Still a bad idea.
Personally, if you can’t fit it on a 45’ trailer then just send 2 trucks. It takes all day to tip a 45’er in an RDC, you would be there all week if you had two of the sods…
bobthedog:
It would be no more efficient. It would be more ■■■■■■■■■■■ it would be more hazardous for other idiots on the road… Still a bad idea.
Personally, if you can’t fit it on a 45’ trailer then just send 2 trucks. It takes all day to tip a 45’er in an RDC, you would be there all week if you had two of the sods…
Finally you’ve come to your senses
I’m with you on the super B concept though, GB is too small for the Scandinavian style drawbars Carryfast is so fond of, they’re too big, anyway there’s a recession on, people are losing jobs as there’s not enough freight to haul on the current sized lorries, bigger ones would be a complete waste of time
I’m with you on the super B concept though, GB is too small for the Scandinavian style drawbars Carryfast is so fond of, they’re too big, anyway there’s a recession on, people are losing jobs as there’s not enough freight to haul on the current sized lorries, bigger ones would be a complete waste of time
so a 25.25m B train is smaller than a 25.25m drawbar combination by exactly how much? we have both at the firm I work for, nobody likes the B- train, as it cuts in way more than the drawbar and it takes ages to uncouple, slide the fifth wheel under the first trailer and vice versa when loading-unloading from the rear. much more work under bad road conditions as well.
bobthedog:
It would be no more efficient. It would be more ■■■■■■■■■■■ it would be more hazardous for other idiots on the road… Still a bad idea.
Personally, if you can’t fit it on a 45’ trailer then just send 2 trucks. It takes all day to tip a 45’er in an RDC, you would be there all week if you had two of the sods…
Finally you’ve come to your senses
I’m with you on the super B concept though, GB is too small for the Scandinavian style drawbars Carryfast is so fond of, they’re too big, anyway there’s a recession on, people are losing jobs as there’s not enough freight to haul on the current sized lorries, bigger ones would be a complete waste of time
If it’s traction work on general haulage hopefully I would’nt be sitting around in RDC 's with the trailer anyway I’d be off with a different loaded one and someone else who’s got the same sense as I have will take the full one after it’s been tipped and reloaded.So it’s just the 25 tonner that I’ve got to wait to get tipped assuming that the whole system does’nt standardise on using just demounts for the prime movers if they ever do allow their use throughout Europe.But if there’s not enough freight to haul with the current sized trucks then what the zb are all those freight trains hauling through the tunnel and around Europe in those containers and what the zb are all those east european artics and drawbars hauling through Dover every day .Even the zb Poles or the rail freight firms can’t make a living from hauling fresh air. .
I’m with you on the super B concept though, GB is too small for the Scandinavian style drawbars Carryfast is so fond of, they’re too big, anyway there’s a recession on, people are losing jobs as there’s not enough freight to haul on the current sized lorries, bigger ones would be a complete waste of time
so a 25.25m B train is smaller than a 25.25m drawbar combination by exactly how much? we have both at the firm I work for, nobody likes the B- train, as it cuts in way more than the drawbar and it takes ages to uncouple, slide the fifth wheel under the first trailer and vice versa when loading-unloading from the rear. much more work under bad road conditions as well.
If ever the yanks,Canadians and the British ever do come to their senses on how an efficient road transport system should work we’ll leave the B trains for the drivers who like them and we’ll keep the drawbar outfits for all of us who know better. .But I’m surprised that you did’nt add weight distribution issues to the list against b trains as well
How many times have you turned up at a drop to be told rigid only or you wont get that in here fancy turning up with a B train they are fine when used on a motorway and the delivery piont is close to one but England is not realy big enough for that type of vehicle people moan about the size of lorries now think how they would whinge about a B.
phil the book:
How many times have you turned up at a drop to be told rigid only or you wont get that in here fancy turning up with a B train they are fine when used on a motorway and the delivery piont is close to one but England is not realy big enough for that type of vehicle people moan about the size of lorries now think how they would whinge about a B.
They whinged just the same in the 1970’s even when we used 40 footers at 32 t and later when they increased the weights to 38 t by calling them ‘Juggernauts’ but no one said that about the eight wheeler drawbar outfits in the 1950’s .It’s all a big unfounded hysteria whipped up by the rail freight interests everytime they see the possibilities of extra weights and therefore efficiency in the road transport industry.But there’s no more real issues in the real world between the current artic outfits or scandinavian type wagon and drags.
Carryfast:
But I’m surprised that you did’nt add weight distribution issues to the list against b trains as well
don’t really know of any, but have heard of cracked frames on the b trains used here, more of an engineering and/or overloading failure though. reversing takes ages as well.
Carryfast:
But I’m surprised that you did’nt add weight distribution issues to the list against b trains as well
don’t really know of any, but have heard of cracked frames on the b trains used here, more of an engineering and/or overloading failure though. reversing takes ages as well.
I was referring to the type of scenario which I was discussing with bobthedog in which the weight put on the second trailer has to be balanced against the loadings which that imposes on the lead trailer through the fifth wheel coupling whereas the drawbar combination is just a simple calculation of the gross and axle weights of two entirely seperate vehicles.In addition to that is the loadings which transfer back and forwards between the lead and second trailers as the outfit undulates as it’s travelling in which every time that the second semi trailer dives at the front,such as under braking,it’s imposing those loads through the pin and fifth wheel coupling onto the lead trailer which you don’t get with an A frame outfit because that’s all accounted for by the front bogie/dolly and the A frame pivots instead.The fact is that a semi trailer was never designed to pull another semi trailer.Which is probably why the Ozzies still use ‘proper’ road trains in many places except that I would still pull them with a rigid prime mover not a tractor unit and get the benefit of even more payload just like they did in the old days. .The cut in advantage of A frames is a result of the inherent turning differences provided by the two points of articulation of an A Frame relative to a direct fifth wheel connection,in that a tractor unit and the lead trailer,in the case of a b train,steers the front of the semi trailer/second semi trailer directly and at a sharper angle whereas the two points of articulation of an A frame connection causes the front bogie of the drawbar trailer to start turning later and at a less sharp angle,relative to the prime mover,than would be the case with a direct fifth wheel type tractor unit/b train/semi trailer type fifth wheel connection/s.Which is why the cut in of a trailer is less when it’s coupled with an A frame dolly than it would be if it was coupled directly with a fifth wheel and it’s surprising how much that inherent advantage remains,or even increases relative to overall outfit lengths where more than one dollies/turntables have to be used,which is how that ozzy triples roadtrain could turn into that truck stop using not much more room for three trailers than he’d have needed for just one.
we want a slight increase in overall length but the same size trailers that we currently have. stick with 45s as a max length and give us a couple more foot in the cab
It’s got to be more interesting than the recent tv series about the great 100 mile British cream cake spedition (which is about the only sector of the industry left which the Poles have’nt taken) (probably because they don’t want it ) and the massive challenge which that presented to the drivers.Now we know why. But it’s ironic to read about complaints by Brits,concerning Scandinavian drawbar outfits,who are working in a country where they use 3 axled tractor units as long,if not longer,than those six wheeler rigids to pull 53 foot semi trailers with a gross weight of less than 50 tonnes. .But it’s just as ironic how a place which usually has the idea of ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ could have come up with the B train idea instead of drawbar outfits and A trains.
Rob, you need to have a word, this is an ex council employee who wants world ■■■■■■■■■■ using overweight and over length lorries and also wants to cut the rates of the eastern europeans
All the best ideas from a bloke who has never driven outside of the UK in a lorry
scanny77:
we want a slight increase in overall length but the same size trailers that we currently have. stick with 45s as a max length and give us a couple more foot in the cab
Like this you mean That’s around 30 + years ago probably and you probably would have got away with using the outfit here then too but a 45 foot 5 axle trailer on the back instead of a short 2 or 3 axle one would make no difference at all to how it drives but would add a lot more to the payload.
Rob, you need to have a word, this is an ex council employee who wants world ■■■■■■■■■■ using overweight and over length lorries and also wants to cut the rates of the eastern europeans
All the best ideas from a bloke who has never driven outside of the UK in a lorry
Be fair I only worked on the council for 5 years not the 15 I did on artics and drawbars.But it all depends on your definition of over weight and over length if you’d have driven an artic outfit in the UK,when I was a council employee,which is legal max length and weight here now,you’d have been overweight and overlength then.
allowing us to have extended cabs wouldnt make a huge difference. a lot of trucks have their sliders forward to save fuel. push them right back, do away with deep pins and you are nearly there. no loss of freight capacity, no huge impact on manoeuvrability, we get a bit more space to live and/or work in.
adding an extra pallet length behind the rear axle is just not practical in the uk. maybe for deckers on the overnight trunks but not for general use
Rob, you need to have a word, this is an ex council employee who wants world ■■■■■■■■■■ using overweight and over length lorries and also wants to cut the rates of the eastern europeans
All the best ideas from a bloke who has never driven outside of the UK in a lorry
I’m afraid I got bored after my small contribution in reply to Rikki on page 1. Longer/heavier trucks will never happen here so the entire discussion is moot. Move along please.
But the rail freight lot would probably sabotage the trailer while I’m having my break 
.But having said that it’s probably a local uk running job anyway so I’ll give it a miss and use the six wheeler prime mover instead on something better.But if you read my posts I can’t understand why you think that I’ve got any agreement with the Denby bog roll carrier b train. 
