Carryfast:
Bearing in mind that the use of in house engines was a documented instruction by GM at the outset of the operation.
What documents? Post them, or links to them, if you are citing them.
Fair enough.I’ll re phrase ‘documented’ to first hand hearsay in the day confirmed by Saviem’s knowledgeable comments written here.I don’t think we both could have misunderstood what we heard/know wrong in that regard.
Whereas the question as to the TM getting,and/or ‘how’/‘wether’ it got a bad name,owing to the wrong in house engine choices,is obviously a matter of dis agreement.In which case the inconvenient questions as to ‘if’ those choices weren’t of Bedford’s doing and were supposedly dictated to Bedford,as part of a GM obsolete engine dumping exercise in Europe then why would GM have invested so much in a new truck range to do it.Bearing in mind GM’s investment in a new up to date more efficient engine range which certainly did comply with all known eco requirements in the day and ‘that’ engine range having actually found its way into the TM at the time in question but importantly ‘not’ on a standardised basis.
While the fact that a 32 tonner + was lumbered with a standard fit 8v71 let alone 6v71 in the day suggests that the TM’s bonkers in house engine spec choices,when it mattered,were anything but dictated by outside interference and more by people who didn’t seem to have a clue as to the difference between torque v peak power.That’s assuming even the 6v71’s peak power output could be considered as realistic in a heavy truck by the standards of the mid-late 1970’s ( also doubtful ).On that basis the use of the 6v71 in anything more than a 16 tonner seems to be the smoking gun that shows where the problems were and those ‘problems’ had nothing to do with GM trying to dump the wrong engines on Bedford.
Listen, the lack of success from the TM was, as I’ve said, nothing to do with how good it was, it was all down to its image.
It’s not unique in this either, many times an inferior product has outsold something far better purely on image.
If the TM was badged up as a GMC with a big chrome grille it may well have been more successful, especially during the Convoy and Smokey and the Bandit Era that was the 1970s.
However, they called it a bloody Bedford and that was something it would never overcome, no matter how good it was.
Behold! A lovely parable for this (and other) threads. A vicar warmed to his sermon one Sunday morning so much so that he forgot the time and ranted ever on. The children fidgeted in their pews while their mothers looked anxiously at their watches, wondering if the joint might be incinerated in the oven. The verger, growing impatient, fingered one of the hymn books in the pile he guarded at the rear of the chancel. Upon a whim, he picked one up and hurled it in the direction of the pulpit, intending it to fall on the floor before the vicar to break the spell. Unfortunately it fell short and struck a man in the front pew on the back of the head. As he slumped to the floor, the man was heard to utter the words, ‘Hit me again, I can still hear him!’
Here endeth the lesson. (I heard this on Radio 4 many years ago). Robert
robert1952:
Behold! A lovely parable for this (and other) threads. A vicar warmed to his sermon one Sunday morning so much so that he forgot the time and ranted ever on. The children fidgeted in their pews while their mothers looked anxiously at their watches, wondering if the joint might be incinerated in the oven. The verger, growing impatient, fingered one of the hymn books in the pile he guarded at the rear of the chancel. Upon a whim, he picked one up and hurled it in the direction of the pulpit, intending it to fall on the floor before the vicar to break the spell. Unfortunately it fell short and struck a man in the front pew on the back of the head. As he slumped to the floor, the man was heard to utter the words, ‘Hit me again, I can still hear him!’
Here endeth the lesson. (I heard this on Radio 4 many years ago). Robert
Would you by any chance be referring to our nocternal member from Leatherhead by any chance?,he is probably now safely restrained,sorry,tranquelised,and locked up in his secure accomodation,however,when the horse tranqeliser wears off about 1am Matron unlocks his straight jacket and allows him to use her PC in her office to argue with all and sundry on TNUK,but at about 3am or so she calls in the two duty Bouncers who remove him from her office and sling him back into his room,sorry,padded cell, and slam the door and lock it!! What a ■■■■■■■ row kicks off!! but it finally subsides and we hear nothing further from the “great man” until slop out at 11am and he gets an “egg and bacon” pizza slid under his door !!
robert1952:
Behold! A lovely parable for this (and other) threads. A vicar warmed to his sermon one Sunday morning so much so that he forgot the time and ranted ever on. The children fidgeted in their pews while their mothers looked anxiously at their watches, wondering if the joint might be incinerated in the oven. The verger, growing impatient, fingered one of the hymn books in the pile he guarded at the rear of the chancel. Upon a whim, he picked one up and hurled it in the direction of the pulpit, intending it to fall on the floor before the vicar to break the spell. Unfortunately it fell short and struck a man in the front pew on the back of the head. As he slumped to the floor, the man was heard to utter the words, ‘Hit me again, I can still hear him!’
Here endeth the lesson. (I heard this on Radio 4 many years ago). Robert
To be fair the Pope really can’t be blamed for upsetting a C of E audience because the sermon is in Latin.
robert1952:
Behold! A lovely parable for this (and other) threads. A vicar warmed to his sermon one Sunday morning so much so that he forgot the time and ranted ever on. The children fidgeted in their pews while their mothers looked anxiously at their watches, wondering if the joint might be incinerated in the oven. The verger, growing impatient, fingered one of the hymn books in the pile he guarded at the rear of the chancel. Upon a whim, he picked one up and hurled it in the direction of the pulpit, intending it to fall on the floor before the vicar to break the spell. Unfortunately it fell short and struck a man in the front pew on the back of the head. As he slumped to the floor, the man was heard to utter the words, ‘Hit me again, I can still hear him!’
Here endeth the lesson. (I heard this on Radio 4 many years ago). Robert
To be fair the Pope really can’t be blamed for upsetting a C of E audience because the sermon is in Latin.
My point entirely! The C of E sermon was never delivered in Latin! So try another language other than that indeciferable politico-speak that infested early '70s paperbacks.
As a humorous aside, it should be noted that many Turks receive khutba (Islamic sermon) in Arabic so they are in the same boat as latter-day Catholics with their unfathomable Latin sermons in that they haven’t a clue what about what is being pedalled.
And to maintain a human face in all this, I do rejoice that you are able to maintain a sense of humour! Robert
Blimey in the terminology of the best decade in living memory and probably future.Leave it out.The Pope would just say if they can’t understand what I’m talking about I’ll just write them off as heretics and stop wasting my time.
Given the “light truck” image and dealers more used to dealing with such vehicles, the TM did OK, IMO. It was far from a failure, being built over a 12 year span, similar to other contemporary heavies of the day. The whole vehicle, including the engine, was a novelty to GB and European operators. The engine choice cannot be blamed if the vehicle did not outsell the established makes. I bet the TM outsold the Transcon.
An interesting set-up: British plates, day cab, LHD, roof-mounted air-con… Makes you wonder who commissioned it! Or was it a demo only job? Robert
Probably the same Bedford managers who thought that a narrow day cabbed 6v71 engined unit and a box trailer would be just what those doing ME work were looking for.
In this case,at this time,it seems obvious that the 92T series Detroit was being over looked in favour of 290 ■■■■■■■ bearing in mind that the 6v92 was arguably a much better choice in the 24-32t sector and no real disadvantages in the case of the 8v92 at 38t +.The issue in this case being that customers like BRS obviously only had even the wrong 71N series engine to go by as a reference let alone the issue of 71N v 92T.
One thing that seems to be missing from all your “obvious” statements Geoffrey is the absolutely undeniable fact that the two stroke diesel engine was an oddball, yes the American market may have used it numbers, but they have a rather peculiar mindset, as well as cheap fuel, also trucking was highly regulated then and rates were set by the ICC to ensure that the carriers made a fortune, regardless of how inefficient their equipment was. Many companies in the USA would have spare engines ready to drop in when the old ones wore out and this was definitely the case in the fleets that ran the two stroke DD engines.
You have to take into account that noise and look at me is a huge part of the American persona, look at Harley Davidson as an example, they outsell the far superior Japanese bikes by a huge margin and they’re awful things, but they make a lot of noise and they’re shiny, us Brits with our stiff upper lips would never go for such things.
The TM was never going to be a success with a two stroke of any kind under the cab, you can come up with all the figures you want that make the DD engines better on paper than the competition, but the fact remind the important figures tell the truth and those are the sales figures and in that the DD engines were a disaster.
You must take care bma. as “CF” is conversant in many languages,Sami is probably one of them , and he will no doubt be a superior sketch drawer to yourself (In his own head !) unfortunately he is only able to use one of his languages on this site which is talking “rubbish” Excellent drawing of the TM but I doubt there were many running in Finland Cheers Dennis.
we worship decent well-built lorries with ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ drivelines! 
