rigsby:
i lost an old friend last year ( he was 96 ) ex bomber command , he did his 32 trip tour on wellingtons and lancasters , shot down twice over the channel and had his heel shot off by aa fire . his take was simple . " they go on about this battle and that battle but we fought a battle every time we flew " when he finished his tour he refused another tour ( as a volunteer he had that option ) he was quite convinced that he was pushing his luck too far . he finished the war in the far east , india , burma etc . after the war he sold his medals " useless bits of tin " as he put it , "they couldn’t give medals to the 55000 dead men " . would our generation have done it ? dave
I believe they would step up if needed, as Afghan and Iraq have shown. In the 1930s there was a lot of talk about the then young generation and how they would have been useless if the Great War had been fought then, and they did ok. Another question is whether the public At large would accept the slaughter unless they were really behind the war. With social media and everything people are a lot more aware about what is happening.
“Heroic” and humbling acts have in sure taken place in Afghan and Iraq, often we don’t get to hear about them.
People have stepped up to the plate and i’m sure will do again when the time comes.
R I P les munro,he and the others very brave men
As a nation we often refer to how our youngsters of today and those of just a few years ago have stepped up to the mark when the time came. We mention Afghanistan, Iraq and the Falklands, however almost nothing is ever said about Korea where so many National Servicemen(who would have been only 18 or 19) and WW2 reservists lost their lives in extremely bitter fighting. Likewise the Aden Emergency is also almost totally forgotten.
For those who like to read I can recommend the following:
The Berlin Raids. by Martin Middlebrook describes the relentless losses the RAF suffered attacking Berlin
Men of Air, The doomed youth of Bomber Command. by Kevin Wilson the appalling losses of1944
To the Last Round The epic British stand on the Imjin river, Korea 1951. by Andrew Salmon
I can remember watching the Dambusters film on tv as a kid in the early 1970’s and being totally enthralled with the whole story.
Over the past 20 years i had the privilege to meet Les Munro and 7 other members & ground crew who where on the raid.
He was very humble but proud to have taken part in the raid and was amazed by the amount of interest from people of all ages.
RIP Les Munro a real hero 
rigsby:
i lost an old friend last year ( he was 96 ) ex bomber command , he did his 32 trip tour on wellingtons and lancasters , shot down twice over the channel and had his heel shot off by aa fire . his take was simple . " they go on about this battle and that battle but we fought a battle every time we flew " when he finished his tour he refused another tour ( as a volunteer he had that option )
All RAF aircrew were volunteers,after a tour you became an instructor for a while ,then another tour.i don’t think they had the option of refusing,despite being volunteers
if anyone wants to read a superb book on piloting a Lancaster in ww2 have a look on ebay for “Lancaster target” by jack currie.one of the best books I have read on ww2-utterly compelling
and for the dambusters raid james Holland’s book on the subject takes some beating
andrew.s:
rigsby:
i lost an old friend last year ( he was 96 ) ex bomber command , he did his 32 trip tour on wellingtons and lancasters , shot down twice over the channel and had his heel shot off by aa fire . his take was simple . " they go on about this battle and that battle but we fought a battle every time we flew " when he finished his tour he refused another tour ( as a volunteer he had that option )
All RAF aircrew were volunteers,after a tour you became an instructor for a while ,then another tour.i don’t think they had the option of refusing,despite being volunteers
if anyone wants to read a superb book on piloting a Lancaster in ww2 have a look on ebay for “Lancaster target” by jack currie.one of the best books I have read on ww2-utterly compelling
and for the dambusters raid james Holland’s book on the subject takes some beating
my friend was perhaps lucky , he was in coastal command really , but many were seconded to bomber command as the need arose . when his tour ended he reverted to coastal command and as a volunteer he was able to refuse a return to bomber command , so they got their own back and sent him to the far east . at least he came home and enjoyed a long and happy life . dave
rigsby:
andrew.s:
rigsby:
i lost an old friend last year ( he was 96 ) ex bomber command , he did his 32 trip tour on wellingtons and lancasters , shot down twice over the channel and had his heel shot off by aa fire . his take was simple . " they go on about this battle and that battle but we fought a battle every time we flew " when he finished his tour he refused another tour ( as a volunteer he had that option )
All RAF aircrew were volunteers,after a tour you became an instructor for a while ,then another tour.i don’t think they had the option of refusing,despite being volunteers
if anyone wants to read a superb book on piloting a Lancaster in ww2 have a look on ebay for “Lancaster target” by jack currie.one of the best books I have read on ww2-utterly compelling
and for the dambusters raid james Holland’s book on the subject takes some beating
my friend was perhaps lucky , he was in coastal command really , but many were seconded to bomber command as the need arose . when his tour ended he reverted to coastal command and as a volunteer he was able to refuse a return to bomber command , so they got their own back and sent him to the far east . at least he came home and enjoyed a long and happy life . dave
sorry dave if I came across as being a smart arse,just re-read my post and it seems as if I was.not my intention at all.glad your friend got through it all,i bet the far east wasn’t exactly a cushy posting(wouldn’t want to be a pilot captured by those jap bastarts)
as for coastal command,bomber harris could have maybe saved the lives of a lot of merchant seamen if he let coastal command have a few more four engine long range bombers for anti submarine duty in the atlantic ,but he was reluctant to do so.
andrew.s:
my friend was perhaps lucky , he was in coastal command really , as for coastal command,bomber harris could have maybe saved the lives of a lot of merchant seamen if he let coastal command have a few more four engine long range bombers for anti submarine duty in the atlantic ,but he was reluctant to do so.
Harris was right.The Lancaster didn’t have the guns that the Liberator had to clear the decks and/or even sink U boats.Bearing in mind that later in the war the U boats were fitted with powerful anti aircraft guns which could shoot down aircraft on the low level depth charge bomb runs required. 
youtube.com/watch?v=49A5ToQZIls
What a good innings. 96! I enjoyed listening to Les’ accounts on the documentarys and in books. I too love the film.
What I picked up from recent accounts is a more honest opening of what it was like rather than the stiff upper lip stuff accounts from the 1960s. Take the romance of history away and it was a modern time for these guys. They were so terrified we’re talking vomiting with fear and loose bowels, mental and behavural disturbances. All behind closed doors. Just think how many times in your life have you known fear so strong that it can do that? I have just once for a brief moment. Man, I couldn’t imagine what it would be like to live with that day after day. Just a mess.
Speaking of haunted Lancs, even the blinking film has a ghost story. In one of the last scenes filmed at Scampton, Wallis is talking to Gibson. In the background you can make out a black lab running through the grass. This confounded the film crew as no dog was there at the time or on set. Believe what you will but can’t beat a good little fireside story either way 
Carryfast:
andrew.s:
my friend was perhaps lucky , he was in coastal command really , as for coastal command,bomber harris could have maybe saved the lives of a lot of merchant seamen if he let coastal command have a few more four engine long range bombers for anti submarine duty in the atlantic ,but he was reluctant to do so.
Harris was right.The Lancaster didn’t have the guns that the Liberator had to clear the decks and/or even sink U boats.Bearing in mind that later in the war the U boats were fitted with powerful anti aircraft guns which could shoot down aircraft on the low level depth charge bomb runs required.
youtube.com/watch?v=49A5ToQZIls
harris was most definitely wrong-the fire power wasn’t the issue,it was the range to act as spotters for the convoy.the Vickers wellington was hardly bristling with guns but was used in this role.and the liberator was used by the RAF in other operations-some of these clearly would have helped the atlantic convoys if they had been diverted to coastal command in greater numbers
andrew.s:
Carryfast:
andrew.s:
my friend was perhaps lucky , he was in coastal command really , as for coastal command,bomber harris could have maybe saved the lives of a lot of merchant seamen if he let coastal command have a few more four engine long range bombers for anti submarine duty in the atlantic ,but he was reluctant to do so.
Harris was right.The Lancaster didn’t have the guns that the Liberator had to clear the decks and/or even sink U boats.Bearing in mind that later in the war the U boats were fitted with powerful anti aircraft guns which could shoot down aircraft on the low level depth charge bomb runs required.
youtube.com/watch?v=49A5ToQZIls
harris was most definitely wrong-the fire power wasn’t the issue,it was the range to act as spotters for the convoy.the Vickers wellington was hardly bristling with guns but was used in this role.and the liberator was used by the RAF in other operations-some of these clearly would have helped the atlantic convoys if they had been diverted to coastal command in greater numbers
I work with a bunch of German lads. Very reluctant to mention “zee vor”. It’s funny and awkward at the same time. On the whole bar a few uptight ones, the guys I work with are a really decent bunch of lads. They have ■■■■ sense of humour if measured in the Brit way,and the funny thing is they know it and even make jokes about their perceived crap humour. I rib them like it being in the luftwaffe working with them. Got talking to one about U boats during a long night at work. He said that it was his understanding that the U boat deck guns were pretty small scale in reality and most hits were on shore targets and boats. I googled it and found this. Ratifies what he said anyway.
uboat.net/technical/guns.htm
Freight Dog:
andrew.s:
Carryfast:
Harris was right.The Lancaster didn’t have the guns that the Liberator had to clear the decks and/or even sink U boats.Bearing in mind that later in the war the U boats were fitted with powerful anti aircraft guns which could shoot down aircraft on the low level depth charge bomb runs required.
youtube.com/watch?v=49A5ToQZIls
harris was most definitely wrong-the fire power wasn’t the issue,it was the range to act as spotters for the convoy.the Vickers wellington was hardly bristling with guns but was used in this role.and the liberator was used by the RAF in other operations-some of these clearly would have helped the atlantic convoys if they had been diverted to coastal command in greater numbers
I work with a bunch of German lads. Very reluctant to mention “zee vor”. It’s funny and awkward at the same time. On the whole bar a few uptight ones, the guys I work with are a really decent bunch of lads. They have [zb] sense of humour if measured in the Brit way,and the funny thing is they know it and even make jokes about their perceived crap humour. I rib them like it being in the luftwaffe working with them. Got talking to one about U boats during a long night at work. He said that it was his understanding that the U boat deck guns were pretty small scale in reality and most hits were on shore targets and boats. I googled it and found this. Ratifies what he said anyway.
uboat.net/technical/guns.htm
That isn’t the same thing as the ongoing development in their anti aircraft armament.Which ended up with the quadruple ( vierling ) 20mm and 37 mm set ups which could do some real damage to low flying big heavy bombers on depth charge runs as you’ll see here out to 12-15 kms range.In which case it’s well known that the usual tactic to over come that was to use the most effective guns available to clear the decks of gun crews and make the thing dive and then depth charge it.IE not something that a Lancaster was able to do.
uboataces.com/weapon-antiaircraft.shtml
uboat.net/technical/flak.htm
uboat.net/history/aircraft_losses.htm
As for coastal command Liberators.Their aircraft were specifically modified for very long range use and ( hopefully ) with the specialist gun packs required ( forward firing 20 mm cannons ) being all about specialist submarine attack not spotting.Therefore not a type which could easily be transferred from transport or bomber operations.
Alright. I’ve identified it early. I think we can nip this one in the bud before it starts
I don’t have the first clue about deck guns, other than what’s on google, as I said, I googled it after chatting with my work colleague. I like U boat films like Das Boot and find them interesting in a very passing way. But I wouldn’t pretend to know about the in depth detail of their bits and bobs or arms (I prefer girls myself). That’s what started the conversation with my colleague, talking about films.
You don’t know loads about deck guns and U boats either. Come on, be honest . You’re just about to pull a load of stuff from google. I’ll take what you say and agree google throws more light and seems as we’d all expect it’s “a complicated subject”
Anyway, back to Les Munro…
Freight Dog:
Alright. I’ve identified it early. I think we can nip this one in the bud before it starts
I don’t have the first clue about deck guns, other than what’s on google, as I said, I googled it after chatting with my work colleague. I like U boat films like Das Boot and find them interesting in a very passing way. But I wouldn’t pretend to know about the in depth detail of their bits and bobs or arms (I prefer girls myself). That’s what started the conversation with my colleague, talking about films.
You don’t know loads about deck guns and U boats either. Come on, be honest . You’re just about to pull a load of stuff from google. I’ll take what you say and agree google throws more light and seems as we’d all expect it’s “a complicated subject”
Anyway, back to Les Munro…
To be fair I might have got some info from the site you posted from.But the difference is I knew what I was looking for to back my case in defence of Harris. 
While ironically having found another interesting example of the contribution of another one of Les Munro’s compatriots within it. 
uboat.net/boats/u468.htm
nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic … d=10436019
Carryfast:
To be fair I might have got some info from the site you posted from.But the difference is I knew what I was looking for to back my case in defence of Harris.
No the only difference is you could be bothered to go googling 
.
A sad loss of a brave and inspirational man. Sometimes we moan a lot in our job.
Perhaps we should remind ourselves once in a while that we have had a narrow escape, and to reflect periodically on the sacrifice made on our behalf. Two generations of working men back, it could have been us.
RIP AND THANKYOU.
Its like getting a history lesson on here some times… pity that some ppl don’t really know what they are talking about and are full of BS 
I put a fiver on it being 10 pages by the end of the coming week… Last of the big spenders me