Lack of younger drivers

[rjan]

CookieMonster:
I just can’t understand why there are so few younger people entering the profession, especially when there are so few other jobs where you can realistically expect to earn £30k a year at that age.

First thing, why would you expect many young people to be drawn in, when there are no vacancies and no additional demand for drivers?

Let’s not pretend secure, full-time jobs abound. The only firms recruiting, are those whose conditions are so poor that they must constantly backfill - those who do take a punt on this game in their 20s, go into these jobs, leave again, and tell all their friends how crap it is.

The only people asking this question about young drivers, are asking it from the perspective of “why can’t we get more young drivers whose expectations of wages and conditions are lower than the drivers we already have”!

Let’s face facts. There are very few young drivers because there is no demand for them, and thus employers do not offer the hourly rates and conditions necessary to draw young people in, just as they do not offer the wages and conditions to fully mobilise those who already have licences.

The idea that most new entrants will start on £30k is not representative - in fact it is almost mendacious. You’d only earn that in a common Class 1 job if you did every hour God sends. You’re unlikely to earn that at all on common Class 2 work.

And if you did every hour God sends, and have given up all aspiration in your 20s of having or keeping a girlfriend, spending any time with your children, or having any friends, then what do you need £30k a year for?

£30k a year is only a good wage when you’re getting it for 37 hours a week, securely every week, doing office hours. Not for 65 hours a week starting as early as 4am, which is more extreme even than the Victorian mills.

[franglais]

albion:

Harry Monk:

albion:
And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, there are some decent jobs out there (yes there is a lot of rubbish jobs out there, but then we’ve all met drivers that you wonder how they got out of the yard). I employed a 23 year old, that crewed up with his 24 year old mate, went round Europe and up to the arctic circle, was earning mid 40s when he started 8 years ago. Really good lad, but could only just about read and write. He got his license in the army. So he got lucky and yes, there are only a few places that offer the deal we did, but if you don’t try, then you won’t know.

I took my HGV1 lessons and test precisely because I knew that I would be driving all over Europe as soon as I’d got my licence. These days continental jobs are as rare as hen’s teeth and I really don’t think that I would make the effort if I was 26 again to do the type of work on offer nowadays. With a very few exceptions, such as your operation, there just is no adventure in the job any more.

I do agree with the adventure bit Harry. I used to think (somewhat romantically ), that it was not totally unlike the ships of old in so far as you set off and apart from the occasional phone call, you were pretty free and you had to use your brains at customs posts, you had to learn to deal with a huge amount of situations, probably had to have mechanical knowledge and you had to be trust worthy.

People say how hard the old days were and they were, fixing a truck in the snow instead of waiting for a tech with a laptop, heaters?, the first truck I remember you could see the road through the floor. I think the almost total removal of needing to rely and trust your drivers to make their own decisions because everything is now micro managed to the nth degree and a driver makes or has no chance of exerting any control over his job, is a prime reason for people’s disinterest in the job.

But it’s going like that with all jobs. My finance manager left his banking job because he could no longer make decisions, he was supposed to feed info into a computer and wait for the computer to say no.

You two are largely correct Id say. Distance and Euro driving needed more self reliance than today. There is less emotional reward for doing an easy job, than a difficult one. No need, or opportunity, for using ones initiative means no involvement in the job, and no satisfaction when (if!) you get it right.
There are some interesting jobs left, but no, not as many as before. We have a few younger guys at our place now, but they don`t seem as keen as I was to get to far flung places.
Maybe we started on the job for the good money, but some of us have stayed on, although the money has relatively shrunk, for the craic? I do enjoy a good ole moan, but still get a kick from the job.

[robroy]

truckerjimbo:
Plus ASLEF will NEVER agree to in cab cctv pointing at the DRIVER.

Not sure if that is true or not, but from our point of view are you actually saying that if we had a strong union membership amongst drivers, that we would get no bs and have better t.s and c.s ?
Don’t be ridiculous , have you not read the posts on here about Unions, they’re a waste of time and money apparentlly.

As taught in the schools since the late 70s to (successfully) divide the working class.

[juddian]

robroy:

truckerjimbo:
Plus ASLEF will NEVER agree to in cab cctv pointing at the DRIVER.

Not sure if that is true or not, but from our point of view are you actually saying that if we had a strong union membership amongst drivers, that we would get no bs and have better t.s and c.s ?
Don’t be ridiculous , have you not read the posts on here about Unions, they’re a waste of time and money apparentlly.

As taught in the schools since the late 70s to (successfully) divide the working class.

Don’t talk rubbish man , next you militants will be telling us unionised jobs have better terms and conditions, pah i say

[truckerjimbo]

robroy:

truckerjimbo:
Plus ASLEF will NEVER agree to in cab cctv pointing at the DRIVER.

Not sure if that is true or not, but from our point of view are you actually saying that if we had a strong union membership amongst drivers, that we would get no bs and have better t.s and c.s ?
Don’t be ridiculous , have you not read the posts on here about Unions, they’re a waste of time and money apparentlly.

A statement was issued by ASLEF that they would never a agree to this.

[truckerjimbo]

Juddian:

robroy:

truckerjimbo:
Plus ASLEF will NEVER agree to in cab cctv pointing at the DRIVER.

Not sure if that is true or not, but from our point of view are you actually saying that if we had a strong union membership amongst drivers, that we would get no bs and have better t.s and c.s ?
Don’t be ridiculous , have you not read the posts on here about Unions, they’re a waste of time and money apparentlly.

As taught in the schools since the late 70s to (successfully) divide the working class.

Don’t talk rubbish man , next you militants will be telling us unionised jobs have better terms and conditions, pah i say

.

Two jobs that are similar(a little bit) One pays good wage and one pays crap wage.

Dont know what your trying to say?

[toonsy]

I think theres a part of it with whoever said about kids going with parents and kind of not being allowed anymore.

It’s the reason I got into it and it was good grounding slowing me to go into the industry with my eyes wise open.

[kevmac47]

My grandson had two grandads plus his father and mother as lorry drivers, he wouldn’t dream of joining the industry! He has accepted an apprenticeship as a maintenance engineer, his starting wage is £8 ph, whilst he is at college for the next year!! Being paid to gain his qualification. Regards Kev.

[carryfast]

Ironically I’m getting fed up with seeing adverts for car driver jobs for the local garages calling for 8 am - 6 pm 5 days per week + Saturdays and when replying saying that the job is more suited to older workers job sharing it 3 days per week they say that they’d rather employ young people who ‘need the money’ and the hours.Also heard at least one 20 something,while doing the job on agency,moaning about earning minimum wage.

[rjan]

albion:
And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, there are some decent jobs out there (yes there is a lot of rubbish jobs out there, but then we’ve all met drivers that you wonder how they got out of the yard). I employed a 23 year old, that crewed up with his 24 year old mate, went round Europe and up to the arctic circle, was earning mid 40s when he started 8 years ago. Really good lad, but could only just about read and write. He got his license in the army. So he got lucky and yes, there are only a few places that offer the deal we did, but if you don’t try, then you won’t know.

I’m curious, why did you employ a 23 year old rather than say a 45 year old?

I suspect it’s because older fellas are more reluctant to do that sort of work when they have families and commitments, but then the question remains, where does the 23 year old go when he’s 45? Into another driving job that’s barely paying minimum wage? Or does he sail around the world on wheels forever more?

That’s aside from noting, as you do, that to even be offered that job at 23 is unusual and unrepresentative, and the lad was already an experienced soldier (and all that entails about his character, skills, and experience) who had been given the licence for absolutely nothing.

It’s all very well taking chances when someone else is paying for the training (and still paying you a soldier’s wage and providing your accomodation while you do it) with zero further obligation on your own part. I can find you the names of 10 civvy lads who will take that chance.

For the working class lad working in a sandwich shop, say, and with bills to pay, you don’t scrape together say £4k easily, and by god you don’t spend it on a licence just for a punt.

[rjan]

albion:
In all seriousness, if everyone hates it so much, go do something else. Human beings aren’t trees.

That, evidently, is what young people are doing, although the OP seemed to wonder why.

[maga]

anyone know how much DHL are paying on the JLR contract for driving class 1? I doubt its more than 30k yet the same company pay the drivers of these in the factory 30k+ for 40 hours p/w. Proper time 1/2 OT rate for anything after that too.

0 qualifications/licences required… its easy to see why us youngsters ain’t interested.

[alamcculloch]

When I was young 50 odd years ago I was saving up for driving lessons. Nowadays lots of younger people are not learning to drive because the insurance premiums makes it impossible .

[albion]

Rjan:

albion:
And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, there are some decent jobs out there (yes there is a lot of rubbish jobs out there, but then we’ve all met drivers that you wonder how they got out of the yard). I employed a 23 year old, that crewed up with his 24 year old mate, went round Europe and up to the arctic circle, was earning mid 40s when he started 8 years ago. Really good lad, but could only just about read and write. He got his license in the army. So he got lucky and yes, there are only a few places that offer the deal we did, but if you don’t try, then you won’t know.

I’m curious, why did you employ a 23 year old rather than say a 45 year old?

I suspect it’s because older fellas are more reluctant to do that sort of work when they have families and commitments, but then the question remains, where does the 23 year old go when he’s 45? Into another driving job that’s barely paying minimum wage? Or does he sail around the world on wheels forever more?

That’s aside from noting, as you do, that to even be offered that job at 23 is unusual and unrepresentative, and the lad was already an experienced soldier (and all that entails about his character, skills, and experience) who had been given the licence for absolutely nothing.

.

Nothing to do with older fellows being less likely, they may be but I also employed someone who was 62 and ages in between.

As I’ve said before, we employed on recommendation because it suited us, he was recommended, came for an interview, driving assessment was good. Taking anyone on is always a leap into the unknown but he stayed until just before I retired.

I dont get hung up on age. There are arguments for taking on young and old drivers. I dont over think, just take a chance, watch them, if it doesn’t work then we go our seperate ways, but that only happened once with a van driver.

What he does when he is 45…who knows. Frankly I wasnt too sure what I was going to be doing at 45.

[albion]

Rjan:

albion:
In all seriousness, if everyone hates it so much, go do something else. Human beings aren’t trees.

That, evidently, is what young people are doing, although the OP seemed to wonder why.

Indeed, but I was talking to the moaners that are shall we say over 30!

[adam277]

I get zero satisfaction from the job.
Is why I want to stop.

Long Hours, no Life, no job satisfaction.
Good job for someone who already has kids, A mortgage etc though.

[rjan]

albion:
What he does when he is 45…who knows. Frankly I wasnt too sure what I was going to be doing at 45.

Indeed! But I think many young people do manage to evaluate the future somewhat.

For those that don’t, the short-sightedness cuts the other way too. If you’re not thinking about the future much, then you’re not really going to engage on your own initiative in hard-saving and unpaid training necessary to get a licence, on the faint promise of good pay many months or years later. You’re probably thinking most about Friday and Saturday night this week, which haulage might well require you to give up.

Some of this thinking also occurs across the generations. It’s the people who are 45 - fathers, uncles, family friends - or even 30 such as older brothers and older friends - who are in a position to examine the long-term prospects, because they have arrived at that later stage in life, and provide (or withhold) encouragement to those who would not think ahead for themselves.

[albion]

Rjan:

albion:
What he does when he is 45…who knows. Frankly I wasnt too sure what I was going to be doing at 45.

Indeed! But I think many young people do manage to evaluate the future somewhat.

For those that don’t, the short-sightedness cuts the other way too. If you’re not thinking about the future much, then you’re not really going to engage on your own initiative in hard-saving and unpaid training necessary to get a licence, on the faint promise of good pay many months or years later. You’re probably thinking most about Friday and Saturday night this week, which haulage might well require you to give up.

Some of this thinking also occurs across the generations. It’s the people who are 45 - fathers, uncles, family friends - or even 30 such as older brothers and older friends - who are in a position to examine the long-term prospects, because they have arrived at that later stage in life, and provide (or withhold) encouragement to those who would not think ahead for themselves.

I wouldn’t disagree with that mostly beyond saying it is partly down to temperament. The 23 year old from before, he may have his ups and downs in employment, but basically he is the type of person who is going to land on his feet. Other people will always struggle and partly because they won’t take a chance on something new, often coupled with a sour, limited personality that limits their chances, though they never recognise it.

And secondly, now that I’m 55, I realise more than ever, you can plan till you are blue in the face but that will get you only so far because you can only control so much. You cant control the multiple chances that occur every day that affect you to a greater or lesser degree. Throughout my business life I had a quote from Sir John Harvey Jones on my wall that started, ‘Planning is an unnatural process, far better to just do something…’, and I endorse that lack of overthinking. You want to drive a truck then just do it, give it a whirl and it’s got two chances.

[corij]

plus never take heed to advice from others , although it might appear well meaning on the surface in fact its often the opposite . Actually most of my life iv listened carefully and then gone and done the exact opposite to any friend or family members advice and rarely regretted it .

[albion]

corij:
plus never take heed to advice from others , although it might appear well meaning on the surface in fact its often the opposite . Actually most of my life iv listened carefully and then gone and done the exact opposite to any friend or family members advice and rarely regretted it .

I’d go with that corij! Even in the 90s, starting a business with a couple of ratty old vans was considered lunatic (with no business plan), but it worked out fine.