muckles:
No doubt there are some courses that are worse than others, I’ve been to course run by 2 different companies and the way one was delivered was far better than the other
But I also wonder how many times this misinformation is more the driver not understanding or only hearing what they want to hear, although in that case the instructor might be at fault for not clarifying things.
I saw this today on a DCPC course. People clearly didn’t get something, the trainer asked if there were any questions and was met by silence. He moved on.
Later at break people were questioning each other rather than having questioned the trainer.
On the other hand - I did query the trainer on a few points and realised I was actually embarrasing the guy in front of 15 other people so stopped doing it.
I don’t make too many comments on here, read a lot though. Quite a few of my comments have been on regs related matters. I’m a “noob” - only had cat c for 3 years and the luvverly people who got me through the test dished out 4 x 7hr cpc certificates for the initial training course, which although dubious IMO I was not going to turn down. So I’ve only done one ‘proper’ cpc which was in house with a company I no longer work for sounding very much like Bobby Distribution
Farcical on basic matters like 6 hour rule (“It’s 30 mins every 6 hours because I set the parameters on the tachomaster software, so if you tried to take 15 you’d get an infringement” after I tried to point out he was wrong and, as quoted, appeared to upset and embarrass him in front of others which put him on the defensive), yet educational in others (to a noob) like load restraint and vosa’s GFP regime. Couldn’t make head nor tail of the last 10 minutes which consisted of a quite graphic road safety video of the aftermath of a crash involving young people (no, not the children - a bit older) coupled with our instructors admission that he had recently lost a relative in such circumstances. Genuine sympathies but I regard as common sense that any large vehicle be it an 18 ton rigid or a 44 ton artic when driven recklessly is a killing machine. It seemed like a time filler and the instructor had already pointed out that JAUPT were highly unlikely to turn up this late in the day.
The dcpc certainly has it’s place but I think quite rigorous exams for instructors, as mentioned, are a necessity and perhaps less of a reliance on ex drivers who are no longer on the road for whatever reason (no disrespect if that’s you but that’s my opinion based on this experience).
DearBoy:
The dcpc certainly has it’s place but I think quite rigorous exams for instructors, as mentioned, are a necessity and perhaps less of a reliance on ex drivers who are no longer on the road for whatever reason (no disrespect if that’s you but that’s my opinion based on this experience).
What exams would you like me to take? I’ve already got my managers CPC which wasn’t particularly simple to get. How many more hoops must I jump through And what exams do you get in other subject matters than just drivers hours?
I have already suggested to JAUPT and DSA that that they need an OCRS type system to ‘score’ and ‘rate’ the current DCPC providers so the customers (You lot) can choose which ones to go to. As it is on the JAUPT website you can’t see the difference between a training provider with glowing audit reports and one with a final warning on their record.
This would of course mean they need auditors and inspectors who know what they are talking about and so far, all the ones I have met have no subject knowledge at all.
Just my observation, mate. As mentioned no disrespect was intended to anyone. I left my course feeling that after my small amount of experience on the road and a little research I knew more about regs and hours in particular than the course instructor, who for sure had a vast amount of practical road experience. From what I’ve read, mostly on this forum, this is a common state of affairs. Perhaps an exam/refresher akin to the one LGV instructors are required to take is needed. I’m not offering answers only an opinion.
Edit…
OCRS type system to ‘score’ and ‘rate’ the current DCPC providers so the customers (You lot) can choose which ones to go to
That’s a great system for ‘us lot’ who are paying and can therefore choose but in house sessions mean you are reliant on your company providing a good trainer.
The dcpc is a waste of time and money I’ve done it y? Because the law says I have to to continue in earning a crust
The law also says I must take breaks from driving at certain intervals so I take these breaks as to stop havin my hgv licence withdrawn
The rules are set by the governing powers not me its just a shame that there’s not more Thought and attention to detail gone into the dcpc because it could have been a good way of continuous training and improving people’s driving standards
The craziest thing I think is how you can sit the same module ( course syllabus every time ) all the dcpc is is a big fat white elephant
Chances are that you won’t have to wait long until the DCPC courses improve. I’ve been told by a reliable source that the courses for the five years preceeding the 2014 deadline were on a ‘grandfather rights’ basis in that a driver just had too turn up.
I can’t wait until a test is introduced. Can you imagine the hoo-har when some big name on this forum fails the drivers hours one lol? And petitions the Supreme Court to have it overturned lol
David H:
Chances are that you won’t have to wait long until the DCPC courses improve. I’ve been told by a reliable source that the courses for the five years preceeding the 2014 deadline were on a ‘grandfather rights’ basis in that a driver just had too turn up.
I can’t wait until a test is introduced. Can you imagine the hoo-har when some big name on this forum fails the drivers hours one lol? And petitions the Supreme Court to have it overturned lol
Mmmmmm now then - what do you make of this little paragraph from the Governments response to the EU about DCPC?
We would also ask that you clarify whether or not there is flexibility to include an assessment within approved training courses, so that learning outcomes could be reviewed. We would not, however, support a requirement for drivers to be tested at the completion of their 35 hours of periodic training. The imposition of a pass-fail test would require a different focus for the training programmes, the establishment of a testing protocol and would have implications for the employment status of any driver who “failed” such a test. There would also be significant cost implications for the quality assurance and administration of any such testing arrangements.
Not sure how they intend to assess learning outcomes without a test !?!?!?
David H:
Chances are that you won’t have to wait long until the DCPC courses improve. I’ve been told by a reliable source that the courses for the five years preceeding the 2014 deadline were on a ‘grandfather rights’ basis in that a driver just had too turn up.
I can’t wait until a test is introduced. Can you imagine the hoo-har when some big name on this forum fails the drivers hours one lol? And petitions the Supreme Court to have it overturned lol
Was that source in an RDC waiting room? Pass or fail exam for periodic training will never happen because it doesn’t really take too much thinking to realise the insurmountable problems associated with it. Not sure what via what mechanism your source thinks courses can be made to improve when they are either approved or not.
No it wasn’t an RDC waiting room. Tests are not out of the question and initially failing one may not result in having your licence revoked but over time it may creep in that you may have to pass say 3 out of 5 modules…
I remember the ADR Course when it wasn’t tested, and the driving test with no hazard awareness test, and Customs that were never going to end, and tacho’s that were paper discs and manual gearbox trucks…
GasGas:
The trainers are govt approved, and if you follow their directions in good faith then it’s difficult to see how a court could convict you…even though the prosecution would contend that the offences were ‘absolute’.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through properly. The Governments own advice (via the VOSA guidance on drivers hours )on the rules comes with a disclaimer. No advice wether good or bad will mitigate you breaking the law. You’re dreaming.
GasGas:
The trainers are govt approved, and if you follow their directions in good faith then it’s difficult to see how a court could convict you…even though the prosecution would contend that the offences were ‘absolute’.
If trainers give you informaton that is clearly wrong, then question it…“Are you sure about that because I thought the regulations said?”
If they persist in telling something that’s clearly wrong, write it down and complain to Jaupt asap.
And, BTW if one was to follow your logic, do you think this driver could have some recourse against the DSA as they gave him a licence and he doesn’t know what he’s doing…? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=108001
At my last job they decided to do all training themselves and get their own trainers.
They then sent two of the worst employees on a course to get trained as dcpc trainers and they now think they are somebody special and when not training walk round picking fault with every driver and telling them all sorts of rubbish…they even take you out driving for 3 hrs on your dcpc and then do 4 hour class talk watching videos etc.
I could not tolerate been told how to drive by a bloke who was one of the worst drivers in both driving ability and attitude I had ever seen :evil:
David H:
Chances are that you won’t have to wait long until the DCPC courses improve. I’ve been told by a reliable source that the courses for the five years preceeding the 2014 deadline were on a ‘grandfather rights’ basis in that a driver just had too turn up.
I can’t wait until a test is introduced. Can you imagine the hoo-har when some big name on this forum fails the drivers hours one lol? And petitions the Supreme Court to have it overturned lol
Mmmmmm now then - what do you make of this little paragraph from the Governments response to the EU about DCPC?
We would also ask that you clarify whether or not there is flexibility to include an assessment within approved training courses, so that learning outcomes could be reviewed. We would not, however, support a requirement for drivers to be tested at the completion of their 35 hours of periodic training. The imposition of a pass-fail test would require a different focus for the training programmes, the establishment of a testing protocol and would have implications for the employment status of any driver who “failed” such a test. There would also be significant cost implications for the quality assurance and administration of any such testing arrangements.
Its a valid point but the question is only a response and the argument is based on cost and disruption not the quality of training. If you think the DCPC will stop at its current position with a bloke turning up to talk to a room of drivers you’re wrong. Just wait until a company like Pitman Training see the possibility of profit. Companies like Pitman have the power to influence change far more that drivers and the myriad of trainers do.
Not sure how they intend to assess learning outcomes without a test !?!?!?
Given that DCPC training is expensive, pretty poor, often given by poor quality trainers, often giving out the wrong information - and taking into consideration there is no Driver’s test to pass, it renders the whole DCPC pretty pointless.
IMO, the training would be much better if it was done online, could be set up using video training, creative games allowing testing with high scores - enabling the Student/Driver the ability to increase their score. Also able ask questions online in a public forum, where the answers provided by the trainers are there to be examined in the full view of everyone.
Using PC camera’s and eye recognition technology, this could ensure that the DCPC holder is the person attending the online course, it could massively reduce costs and seriously improve the quality of training, at the same time eliminating cash cow band wagon chasers with only the fees and profits at the centre of their raison d’être.
To the OP, yes you certainly should be able to trust the information provided by a DCPC trainer. Unfortunately, most of the cowboy haulier outfits have packed in running trucks and now run DCPC courses where they are much less likely to receive infringements.
To anyone thinking they could use bad course material as mitigation in law, bad news - the law has a caveat on all legal matters and that is simple enough. Ignorance in no excuse for breaking the law, you own what you do.
I think the current system is only superseded in the level of its corruption by the level of fraudulent expense claims being stolen from the poor and needy by rich legally qualified MP’s. No wonder then that any Government Approved Courses would be defined by those forced to attend as pointless and corrupted. Thieves policed by bigger thieves.
And while I’m ranting, WTF is having three different cards all about, surely we could have one card that does the whole job.
And what exams do you get in other subject matters than just drivers hours?