im willing to bet that when you come to draw on your penstion that you will pay this thing called income tax on anything over the personal allowance. so not paying tax at the moment has nothing to do with tax avoidence. they are doing two things 1) they are making sure they dont tax you twice on the same money and 2) with the way currency value is going and the gov are spending i susspect that tax rates will be raised or the threshold lowered so they will get more tax for the same amount.
Conor:
tmcassett:
I’m sure Conor will be along shortly with his story of how his mate got landed with a £15,000 tax bill. Oddly enough I’ve never heard of anyone else being done for the whole Ltd Co thing or being landed with any retrospective tax bills.Actually it was a member of this forum who got it. Harry7 posted he’d got a £6500 bill. There were several threads about it over 2015-2017.
the maoster:
peirre:
Does your tax bill exceed the current forum record bill of £15K-£16K?£15650 actually peirre
. It may be a forum record, but it’s nowhere near a record where I work! Anyhoo after much tooing and froing it has gone away after I proved that my Ltd Co was folded for legitimate reasons (I went PAYE) two weeks BEFORE the demand was sent. Ltd Co = limited liability.
trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewto … &p=2063346
the maoster:
Two of my colleagues have received unwelcome Christmas pressies from HMRC with regards to their time with Think. One got a bill for over 9 grand, the other had a bill for £19500 land on his doorstep last Monday! The clock is ticking.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewto … &p=2063355
morphie:
bah ive had the dreaded letter and quite a few of my ex collegues have too luckily for me if you can call it that my bill is in the hundreds…most of my collegues are 12,13,14 thousand plus… cracking xmas pressiemalgarner:
I have had a bill for £4000 + and not very happy I am in contact with hmrc as I got the bill I believe we need to stick together and get the agencies done for forcing drivers to go self employed so they don’t have to pay employers ni and holiday pay + the wtd ids Immingham adr network all use similar routes lets get them done I was paying £30.00 per week to get paid by esentual part of adr network and I want my money back they are all taking the p*** time to react
mal garner…could go on and on. But it’s all something I made up apparently you swivel eyed smoothbrained loon? What a prick.
Right, so all you’ve done there is post examples and links from a forum thread 7 years ago, where drivers were using a dodgy accounting firm who were charging fees, VAT etc. and then not passing on any relevant amounts owed to either the driver or HMRC. Good one 
You got any real life or recent examples of anyone actually using a properly qualified accountant and doing the whole LTD thing who ended up with any massive tax bill?
tmcassett:
Conor:
tmcassett:
I’m sure Conor will be along shortly with his story of how his mate got landed with a £15,000 tax bill. Oddly enough I’ve never heard of anyone else being done for the whole Ltd Co thing or being landed with any retrospective tax bills.Actually it was a member of this forum who got it. Harry7 posted he’d got a £6500 bill. There were several threads about it over 2015-2017.
the maoster:
peirre:
Does your tax bill exceed the current forum record bill of £15K-£16K?£15650 actually peirre
trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewto … &p=2063346
the maoster:
Two of my colleagues have received unwelcome Christmas pressies from HMRC with regards to their time with Think. One got a bill for over 9 grand, the other had a bill for £19500 land on his doorstep last Monday! The clock is ticking.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewto … &p=2063355
morphie:
bah ive had the dreaded letter and quite a few of my ex collegues have too luckily for me if you can call it that my bill is in the hundreds…most of my collegues are 12,13,14 thousand plus… cracking xmas pressiemalgarner:
I have had a bill for £4000 + and not very happy I am in contact with hmrc as I got the bill I believe we need to stick together and get the agencies done for forcing drivers to go self employed so they don’t have to pay employers ni and holiday pay + the wtd ids Immingham adr network all use similar routes lets get them done I was paying £30.00 per week to get paid by esentual part of adr network and I want my money back they are all taking the p*** time to react
mal garner…could go on and on. But it’s all something I made up apparently you swivel eyed smoothbrained loon? What a prick.
Right, so all you’ve done there is post examples and links from a forum thread 7 years ago, where drivers were using a dodgy accounting firm who were charging fees, VAT etc. and then not passing on any relevant amounts owed to either the driver or HMRC. Good one
You got any real life or recent examples of anyone actually using a properly qualified accountant and doing the whole LTD thing who ended up with any massive tax bill?
I’m sure Conor will trawl through the web and find some obscure story and turn it into one of his “mates” to justify his claims.
robbo99.:
I’m sure Conor will trawl through the web and find some obscure story and turn it into one of his “mates” to justify his claims.
He may well find a story, but I have difficulty believing it will be one of his “mates” because I highly doubt he has any. 
Here’s me hoping that it isn’t going to take Conor a further 5 plus years for the penny to drop for the following:
A self employed truck driver is as you Conor rightly state when an individual owns/leases a truck, risks financial losses and so on. A Ltd Co driver is NOT self employed so doesn’t have to fit the criteria you keep banging on about. Lets make this simple, a Personal Service Company is formed (PSC), the driver then becomes an employee of the said PSC ie a Director and is paid via the PSC. The PSC is known as an intermediary, ie it sits between the employee of the company, ie the Director and the end client ie the company the Director drives a truck for. The PSC is a completely different entity to the Director. I think I’ve explained that enough.
Regarding your claims that drivers working through a Ltd Co are committing tax evasion by claiming expenses. If said driver has not been investigated for and broken IR35 rules on their employment status then those drivers are breaking no tax rules whatsoever. I think I have explained that enough.
cooper1203:
im willing to bet that when you come to draw on your penstion that you will pay this thing called income tax on anything over the personal allowance. so not paying tax at the moment has nothing to do with tax avoidence. they are doing two things 1) they are making sure they dont tax you twice on the same money and 2) with the way currency value is going and the gov are spending i susspect that tax rates will be raised or the threshold lowered so they will get more tax for the same amount.
Yes but by paying anything over 50k into a pension you don’t pay tax now at 40%, instead unless you have an extremely large pot, you’ll pay just basic rate of 19% or whatever it might be at the time on what you take. And as I said you’d need one hell of a private pension to take the difference between the state pension and the higher tax bracket in income each year.
If you just do agency work and regularly move jobs, say less than 3 months at a place would it be more feasible to drive ltd? I presume this will draw a lot of the older drivers that possibly retired due to ir35 coming back?
Trucker Jimbob:
If you just do agency work and regularly move jobs, say less than 3 months at a place would it be more feasible to drive ltd? I presume this will draw a lot of the older drivers that possibly retired due to ir35 coming back?
If you do different jobs, you are an employee of different bosses, be those bosses agencies or otherwise.
That does not make you self employed, or Ltd or anything else.
An agency may tell you otherwise, but agencies say all kinds of stuff.
Moving around a lot? Why? To cover ones tracks? Because you know you are evading taxes and dont want to get caught?
Will older drivers be tempted by such an idea?
Daresay some will.
Daresay others aren`t greedy ■■■■■■■■ and are willing to pay their taxes to keep the country going, in spite of the stupid politicians.
Franglais:
Trucker Jimbob:
If you just do agency work and regularly move jobs, say less than 3 months at a place would it be more feasible to drive ltd? I presume this will draw a lot of the older drivers that possibly retired due to ir35 coming back?If you do different jobs, you are an employee of different bosses, be those bosses agencies or otherwise.
That does not make you self employed, or Ltd or anything else.
An agency may tell you otherwise, but agencies say all kinds of stuff.Moving around a lot? Why? To cover one
s tracks? Because you know you are evading taxes and dont want to get caught?Will older drivers be tempted by such an idea?
Daresay some will.
Daresay others aren`t greedy [zb] and are willing to pay their taxes to keep the country going, in spite of the stupid politicians.
Ah, maybe you Franglais can explain the shift in description from tax avoiding lorry drivers to now tax evading lorry drivers? Even the large well known corporations who get away with paying next to sod all in taxes don’t come under tax evasion. I get it, the now tax evading lorry driver who puts the Daily Star and a Yorkie bar through as expenses is guilty now of tax evasion and all this going on whilst the well documented Corporations use sharp practice accountants to avoid paying a proportionate amount of tax to keep the country going. Its all so clear.
robbo99.:
Franglais:
Trucker Jimbob:
If you just do agency work and regularly move jobs, say less than 3 months at a place would it be more feasible to drive ltd? I presume this will draw a lot of the older drivers that possibly retired due to ir35 coming back?If you do different jobs, you are an employee of different bosses, be those bosses agencies or otherwise.
That does not make you self employed, or Ltd or anything else.
An agency may tell you otherwise, but agencies say all kinds of stuff.Moving around a lot? Why? To cover one
s tracks? Because you know you are evading taxes and dont want to get caught?Will older drivers be tempted by such an idea?
Daresay some will.
Daresay others aren`t greedy [zb] and are willing to pay their taxes to keep the country going, in spite of the stupid politicians.Ah, maybe you Franglais can explain the shift in description from tax avoiding lorry drivers to now tax evading lorry drivers? Even the large well known corporations who get away with paying next to sod all in taxes don’t come under tax evasion. I get it, the now tax evading lorry driver who puts the Daily Star and a Yorkie bar through as expenses is guilty now of tax evasion and all this going on whilst the well documented Corporations use sharp practice accountants to avoid paying a proportionate amount of tax to keep the country going. Its all so clear.
Trucker Jimbob:
If you just do agency work and regularly move jobs,
Tbf franglais yes I’d do what is required while staying within the boundaries of the law! It baffles me somewhat that people such as yourself, clearly with a slaves mentality are willing to lose out through ignorance! There never has been one rule for “them” and one for “us”! That’s just a peasants mentality! The systems are there to be used and if you fail to do do so more fool you! Like I say, within the boundaries of law. You see I have no shame in using a system set up for a purpose! I wasn’t brought up with a mentality that it was my obligation to give away 38% of what I earn. “Cover my tracks” haha no! Staying within time frame of temporary contracts as a contractor maybe. Either way I will be going to a tax accountant. You see I’m mearly asking here! It’s not as if I would rest my financial future on your advice so I was simply seeing if this was seen as a positive or a negative going forward within this industry.
Trucker Jimbob:
Tbf franglais yes I’d do what is required while staying within the boundaries of the law! It baffles me somewhat that people such as yourself, clearly with a slaves mentality are willing to lose out through ignorance! There never has been one rule for “them” and one for “us”! That’s just a peasants mentality! The systems are there to be used and if you fail to do do so more fool you! Like I say, within the boundaries of law. You see I have no shame in using a system set up for a purpose! I wasn’t brought up with a mentality that it was my obligation to give away 38% of what I earn. “Cover my tracks” haha no! Staying within time frame of temporary contracts as a contractor maybe. Either way I will be going to a tax accountant. You see I’m mearly asking here! It’s not as if I would rest my financial future on your advice so I was simply seeing if this was seen as a positive or a negative going forward within this industry.
“I`d do what is required…”
Be a member of society?
Pay your dues to the country that educates and keeps you healthy? Good.
“Give away 38% of what I earn”?
In just the same way that you “give away” your money in exchange for things like food?
Ah, you poor hard done by wee flower.
“Staying within time frame of temporary contracts as a contractor maybe.”
If you are a contractor then you have always been exempt from PAYE.
If you are an employee pretending to be a contractor, you are not, in any way shape or form, inside the law.
Franglais:
Trucker Jimbob:
Tbf franglais yes I’d do what is required while staying within the boundaries of the law! It baffles me somewhat that people such as yourself, clearly with a slaves mentality are willing to lose out through ignorance! There never has been one rule for “them” and one for “us”! That’s just a peasants mentality! The systems are there to be used and if you fail to do do so more fool you! Like I say, within the boundaries of law. You see I have no shame in using a system set up for a purpose! I wasn’t brought up with a mentality that it was my obligation to give away 38% of what I earn. “Cover my tracks” haha no! Staying within time frame of temporary contracts as a contractor maybe. Either way I will be going to a tax accountant. You see I’m mearly asking here! It’s not as if I would rest my financial future on your advice so I was simply seeing if this was seen as a positive or a negative going forward within this industry.“I`d do what is required…”
Be a member of society?
Pay your dues to the country that educates and keeps you healthy? Good.“Give away 38% of what I earn”?
In just the same way that you “give away” your money in exchange for things like food?
Ah, you poor hard done by wee flower.“Staying within time frame of temporary contracts as a contractor maybe.”
If you are a contractor then you have always been exempt from PAYE.
If you are an employee pretending to be a contractor, you are not, in any way shape or form, inside the law.
Ah Franglais, which tax rules are you referring to now then, is it tax avoidance, (perfectly legal) or are you talking about tax evasion, (illegal). Until a contractor has been found to have broken IR35 legislation, (IR35 is what this thread relates to) and has been found to have operated under disguised employment ie tax avoidance, then the said contractor has broken no tax rules whatsoever. How many of these as you and the night trunker from Driffield call them, tax evading lorry drivers have you heard of being prosecuted for tax evasion? Yep no doubt as scarce as rocking horse dung. Even if they were to have broken IR35 legislation, the legislation is not retrospective, ie does not go backwards only forwards, so the said driver would not be able to operate as he had been operating previously. Absolutely no tax evasion committed.
robbo99.:
Ah Franglais, which tax rules are you referring to now then,
The OP has spoken of IR35 and also of having a “job”.
Exactly what he is on about? I know as much as you.
What I am saying is that genuine contractors have always been outside of PAYE.
Also that agencies and others have, pre IR35, illegally disguised employment as contracting.
IR 35 didn`t end that, but did try to cut it down.
robbo99.:
Seems when its going to cost HMRC a small fortune to catch those terrible tax avoiding truck drivers and the like,
The Gov has a department devoted to hunting out the £900 million lost to individuals in benefit fraud.
The Gov has written off the £4,500 million lost to companies in furlough fraud.
robbo99.:
then tax avoidance doesn’t seem to be such a dirty phrase after all.
Because loads of people are on the fiddle, it doesn`t matter if I do it too?
Wonderful.
Carryfast:
The problem isn’t Tories doing what Tories do.
Its the lack of a real Labour opposition with a credible tax policy of hitting highest earners with a fair share of the tax burden by raising the high rate of income tax to well over 50% more like 75%.While abolishing regressive VAT, Council Tax, and fuel duty.
The last time they did something like this saw an exodus of high earners, meaning no tax is collected. Just ask Tom Jones…
Carryfast:
The problem isn’t Tories doing what Tories do.
Its the lack of a real Labour opposition with a credible tax policy of hitting highest earners with a fair share of the tax burden by raising the high rate of income tax to well over 50% more like 75%.While abolishing regressive VAT, Council Tax, and fuel duty.
The politics of envy.
OK Mr carryfast give us the facts and figures to back up the high earners not paying their fair share.
Franglais:
robbo99.:
Ah Franglais, which tax rules are you referring to now then,The OP has spoken of IR35 and also of having a “job”.
Exactly what he is on about? I know as much as you.What I am saying is that genuine contractors have always been outside of PAYE.
Also that agencies and others have, pre IR35, illegally disguised employment as contracting.IR 35 didn`t end that, but did try to cut it down.
robbo99.:
Seems when its going to cost HMRC a small fortune to catch those terrible tax avoiding truck drivers and the like,The Gov has a department devoted to hunting out the £900 million lost to individuals in benefit fraud.
The Gov has written off the £4,500 million lost to companies in furlough fraud.robbo99.:
then tax avoidance doesn’t seem to be such a dirty phrase after all.Because loads of people are on the fiddle, it doesn`t matter if I do it too?
Wonderful.
Fiddling what exactly? Until someone has been investigated by HMRC for IR35 breaches and then gone all the way to a tax tribunal for a Judge to make their judgement, then how can you determine that an individual is on the fiddle? How can you act as judge and jury? We supposedly live in a society where you are innocent until proven guilty.
I can never understand why people get so worked up over IR35 and what other people are doing. There’s a really easy way to make sure HMRC don’t come knocking on your door in years to come. Go onto the HMRC website and use the online employment status checking tool. You answer a few questions from drop down menus and it gives you an instant opinion on your employment status ie employed or self employed. Simply then print it off and keep it. As long as you answer the questions honestly HMRC will honour what opinion it has given. You can even do it without putting your name or address or anything in if your “one of those” that think the government is spying on you and is out to get you. Keep the printout some where safe and crack on. No need to pay for expensive accountants. No need to argue with strangers on forums. No need to worry if that letter is from “the taxman”. No need to worry about backdated tax bills. Easy.
Blackadda1:
I can never understand why people get so worked up over IR35 and what other people are doing. There’s a really easy way to make sure HMRC don’t come knocking on your door in years to come. Go onto the HMRC website and use the online employment status checking tool. You answer a few questions from drop down menus and it gives you an instant opinion on your employment status ie employed or self employed. Simply then print it off and keep it. As long as you answer the questions honestly HMRC will honour what opinion it has given. You can even do it without putting your name or address or anything in if your “one of those” that think the government is spying on you and is out to get you. Keep the printout some where safe and crack on. No need to pay for expensive accountants. No need to argue with strangers on forums. No need to worry if that letter is from “the taxman”. No need to worry about backdated tax bills. Easy.
Got that it writing that HMRC will honor what the 30 sec employment status tool says? Considering the tax legislation laws in this country amount to like 15,000 pages.
Even if HMRC stand by it I somehow doubt that they will not prosecute you if they consider you broken the law in regards to tax.
I mean there are many examples of accountants having to pay large sums of money due to ‘difference of interpretation’
I.e the tax law in this country is purposefully vague.
adam277:
Blackadda1:
I can never understand why people get so worked up over IR35 and what other people are doing. There’s a really easy way to make sure HMRC don’t come knocking on your door in years to come. Go onto the HMRC website and use the online employment status checking tool. You answer a few questions from drop down menus and it gives you an instant opinion on your employment status ie employed or self employed. Simply then print it off and keep it. As long as you answer the questions honestly HMRC will honour what opinion it has given. You can even do it without putting your name or address or anything in if your “one of those” that think the government is spying on you and is out to get you. Keep the printout some where safe and crack on. No need to pay for expensive accountants. No need to argue with strangers on forums. No need to worry if that letter is from “the taxman”. No need to worry about backdated tax bills. Easy.Got that it writing that HMRC will honor what the 30 sec employment status tool says? Considering the tax legislation laws in this country amount to like 15,000 pages.
Even if HMRC stand by it I somehow doubt that they will not prosecute you if they consider you broken the law in regards to tax.I mean there are many examples of accountants having to pay large sums of money due to ‘difference of interpretation’
I.e the tax law in this country is purposefully vague.
To be clear. I said if you answer the questions honestly HMRC will honour the employment status opinion it’s tool gives you. That has nothing to do with difference of interpretation or if you have purposely broken other laws in regard to tax. The topic is IR35 - ie if someone is employed or self employed. It’s up to the individual to still comply with any other tax laws. And yes it’s in writing that HMRC will honour the opinion given by the tool. A direct quote from the HMRC website: “HMRC will stand by all determinations given by the tool, as long as the information you give remains accurate.”