Introduction to a couple of 8-speed gearboxes WITH PICS

Hello,

I’ve just been reading through the DT1 form given to DSA examiners and this is what the official guidelines state regarding automatic transmissions:

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6.8 VEHICLES WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
A vehicle with automatic transmission is defined in regulations as `A vehicle in which the gear ratio between the engine and the wheels can be varied only by the use of the accelerator or brakes’. In general a vehicle without a manual clutch is regarded as an automatic.

The following points of driving technique are common to all automatic systems:

HANDBRAKE
The handbrake should be applied for temporary stops, e.g. waiting at a red traffic light, a junction, or in a traffic hold-up, if they are likely to be of a long duration
Short stops may not require the application of the handbrake
The handbrake may need to be applied to prevent `creep’
Faults committed in these cases should be recorded at Handbrake

FOOTBRAKE AND ACCELERATOR
The use of the right foot for both brake and accelerator pedals has considerable safety advantages. It is therefore recommended practice for normal driving, but is not necessarily applicable to disabled drivers. The use of the left foot on the brake pedal should not however be marked as a fault unless it involves the use of the footbrake against the accelerator
The use of both feet when manoeuvring in a confined space is acceptable if carried out correctly, i.e. speed is properly adjusted so that no large throttle opening or heavy braking pressures are involved.
Any fault should be recorded at footbrake and/or Accelerator, or in the ‘control’ box if it occurs in the reversing, reverse parking, or turn in the road exercise

6.9 PARTICULAR DRIVING SYSTEMS

FULLY AUTOMATIC SYSTEM
This type has selector settings for forward and reverse, neutral and/or park. It also has settings which enable the driver to select and retain a particular gear ratio or range of gear ratios, e.g. to obtain engine braking when descending a steep hill, although gear changes are normally made automatically. Most automatics of this type enable the driver to make an immediate change into the lower gear, to obtain extra acceleration, by means of `kick down’ or part throttle operation actuated by the accelerator pedal. In nearly all cases the selector lever is mounted on the floor or the steering column in the position normally occupied by the gear lever, but there are exceptions, e.g. a panel of press buttons on the facia.

SEMI-AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics.

PRE-SELECTOR SYSTEMS
In these the gear is selected, before it is required, by manual movement of a selector lever, which is normally mounted on the steering column. When required, the gear is engaged by a single depression and release of the gear-change pedal, which is situated where the clutch pedal would be on an orthodox transmission.

6.10 THE CLUTCH' AND GUIDOSIMPLEX’
These adaptations enable a vehicle to be driven in manual or automatic mode. The candidate can choose which mode to drive the vehicle in and if successful should be issued with the appropriate DSA10.
Disabled candidates may use the vehicle for a test in automatic mode as a means of overcoming their disability. If successful, the candidate should be issued with a restricted licence in the usual way.

6.11 CENTRIFUGAL CLUTCHES AND FREE-WHEEL DEVICES
Vehicles fitted with these devices do not fall within the definition of vehicles with automatic transmission. The use of a free-wheel device or centrifugal clutch in addition to a pedal-operated clutch is at the discretion of the candidate.

6.12 SUBARU HILL HOLDER' CLUTCH The hill holder’ clutch is fitted to manual versions of the Subaru Legacy estate and saloon models. Drivers are advised that when stopping on an incline they should take their foot off the brake pedal while keeping the clutch pedal depressed, this automatically engages the `hill holder’ which prevents the vehicle from rolling back. To move off the driver selects first gear, releases the clutch and drives on in the normal way.
Note: If any doubt exist about whether a particular vehicle is a manual or automatic, advice should be sought from Technical Standards Branch at HQ. This enquiry should be made prior to the start of the test and the candidate informed of the decision before starting the practical drive.

6.13 CITROEN XM PARKING BRAKE
Citroen XMs are fitted with an emergency and parking brake. This brake is operated by the driver pushing in a control fitted under the offside face vent and depressing an additional foot pedal situated to the left of the clutch pedal on the manual model and to the left of the brake pedal on the automatic version. The parking brake is released by pulling out the control fitted on the dash.
The emergency brake can be operated by applying the additional pedal, which will operate the brakes without power assistance. Drivers are advised not to drive with the release control pushed in when driving normally.

Hope this helps,

Richard
:slight_smile:

The Declaration:
As a person whom has never been in the cab of an LGV I think the thread is excellent very well written and easy to understand with the pics, others may give you different feedback but that is my opinion. :smiley:

Well done Dave…excellent post! :smiley:

I read some post earlier regarding gearboxes and must admit I was bit taken back and then the fear set in!

From reading this post it gives me a clear idea of what to expect and is very helpful.

If I have to say something bad about this post its that its prob made me more excited to get my training under way, and now you prob wont hear me quiet :smiling_imp:

Cheers again.

I think Scania deserve a special mention for deciding to be the bane of all new drivers and go for a 12 speed 3 over 3 box with 1st gear in the bottom left and the splitter button where the rangechange usually is on a Rigid scania :unamused: Needless to say I felt like a right pratt trying to drive one after driving 3 different 4 over 4s and one “slapover”

I’ve not driven a 4 over 4 since passing my test. Am I right I thinking that you can pull away in 3rd with an empty load but use 1st and 2nd when fully loaded?

J400cbs:
I’ve not driven a 4 over 4 since passing my test. Am I right I thinking that you can pull away in 3rd with an empty load but use 1st and 2nd when fully loaded?

YES - unless uphill

J400cbs:
I’ve not driven a 4 over 4 since passing my test. Am I right I thinking that you can pull away in 3rd with an empty load but use 1st and 2nd when fully loaded?

I’ve found if unladen in the yard you can pull off In 5th without too much hassle.
Often use 3rd to start then flick up and straight into 5th. Mostly though I go 2/4/5/6/8 if pulling off. After first five mins I quite enjoy the manuals, easier to gently reverse up to the dock than some auto that go from nothing to 5mph straight away!

Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

Thanks DIESELDAVE - very informative - a great help

On this one Dave as a “Golden Oldie” who has been at it for many more
moons :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :wink: :wink: :wink: than I care to remember the info was superb and easy to follow in the directions and the only one I thought was a bit different was the “4 over 4” which I have always called a “Range Change” gearbox but each to their own as a newbie would soon pick it up with the photos and explanations.

As for the “auto” boxes I now drive an MAN with an auto or manual switch “without a clutch pedal” as the gear lever is on the steering column so it wouldn,t be suitable for the test.

Although the gearchange exercise has now gone if you had a “manual” licence for a PSV or HGV and took a test in one or the other you weren,t required to do the g/change exercise as you already had a “manual” licence.

Also if you passed the test you were given a pass ticket with a “manual” licence even if you took the test in an automatic g/box! :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :wink: :wink: :wink:

NEJ:
… the only one I thought was a bit different was the “4 over 4” which I have always called a “Range Change” gearbox …

That’s a fair point NEJ, spot-on actually, since both types are “Range Change.” :smiley:

I had to think of alternative names so that the difference in the gear arrangement and operation of the range change at the gearstick was highlighted. I went for a non-technical explanation and called them “side by side” and “four over four” to differentiate them. I thought about this for a while and decided that calling them both a range change might have led to confusion. :smiley:

interesting that ive come across this topic as just today i saw a training school truck (in Melbourne, Australia), a brand new R series scania parked up while the boys were on a break and i could see it was an opti cruise unit.

now, the only rationale i could find from this was that the particular unit was pulling a B double combination, so im assuming that theyre only being trained / tested on the manoevreing of the double trailers rather than the gear change, as in theyve already had to pass their test in a road ranger fitted truck to get their artic ticket so its assumed they know what theyre at when it comes to changing gears before they go and try to back 2 trailers.

sorry if this is too “non uk” for the topic, its of no relvance or help to the topic but didnt seem to warrant starting a new topic for.

beattun:
… a B double combination, so im assuming that theyre only being trained / tested on the manoevreing of the double trailers rather than the gear change, as in theyve already had to pass their test in a road ranger fitted truck to get their artic ticket …

I’ve no idea of the way that driving tuition is done in Oz, so I have to ask; is it the case that you have to do “artic” before you can progress to B doubles?

beattun:
… sorry if this is too “non uk” for the topic, its of no relvance or help to the topic but didnt seem to warrant starting a new topic for.

Hey no problem beattun, I started this post to help newbies to get the hang of truck gearboxes, so of course it’s relevant. If you can please answer my question above, we could all learn something. :smiley:

It’s a healthy discussion that shows us Brits how things are done in Oz, so more power to you mate. :smiley:

I’ve just trained an Aussie (in our DSA procedures) for his C & CE UK licence.
He holds the ‘roadtrain’ Aussie licence. From what I can remember, the ‘testing’ for this was done mainly in wide open areas - no reverse :laughing: - the purpose of these monster combinations is for ‘across state’ haulage and when nearing a city, they drop the excess trailers and take them in one at a time or a local haulier will take over the single trailers.

Rog is correct as far as I know about the roadtrains,although i think the roadtrain ticket is just an endorsement on your MC license rather than an actual class of license.

dave, hopefully ive got this right :

To get an MR or HR (medium rigid or heavy rigid) license, the same as C1 and C in ireland, not sure what the classes are in the uk, you need to have had your car license for a year minimum.

then to get your HC (heavy combination) - artic, you need to have your MR or HR for at least a year

then after that you have MC (multi combination) which covers you for B-double combinations, ie no dolly, one trailer with a 5th wheel at the back and another full size trailer coupled to it.

I think you can go straight from MR or HR to MC, but Im not 100% sure.

anyway the reason i posted in here was that theres two different classes of HR, theres syncro and non-syncro, obviously if you only do your test in a syncro youre not allowed to drive anything with a road ranger, so i dont know why anyone would do that, considering its the same price.

So which leads me to my original comment, once youve passed your HR in a non syncro, and presumably your HC as well, when it comes to your training and test for your MC, its probably assumed that you can drive a road ranger box, hence probably why they were using an opticruise scania.

see i told you it was completely irrelevant! :laughing:

theres a few aussies on this forum that might stumble across this topic and clear up my half assed description a bit

From what else I think I can recall from the Aussie I taught…
The Aussie car licence has a number of stages. 1st year is restricted, must display the equivalent of our P plates and is a certain colour. 2nd & 3rd years are less restrictive and a different colour licence.
This means that the holder is nearing 21 before they can upgrade to anything larger.

My memory is not that clear on this subject but I think I got the main jist of it correct.

ROG:
From what else I think I can recall from the Aussie I taught…
The Aussie car licence has a number of stages. 1st year is restricted, must display the equivalent of our P plates and is a certain colour. 2nd & 3rd years are less restrictive and a different colour licence.
This means that the holder is nearing 21 before they can upgrade to anything larger.

My memory is not that clear on this subject but I think I got the main jist of it correct.

With the car test I believe you have to take your theory test before you can drive on L plates, then when you pass your car test you have to display P plates for 2 years and while on a P plate youre not permitted to drive anything bigger than a V6

which is anything up to about 4 litre engine lol

dieseldave:
It might be helpful if some of the guys reading it would make a comment as a feedback. Things like: was it helpful?

Very!
I got a last minute job through my agency last night for today, over coffee this morning I read up on the varation in gearboxes: I’d taken my test in a ‘slapover’ vehicle, then been driving automatic on recent jobs so the obvious gap in my knowledge was the 4 over 4. Lo and behold what kind of vehicle did I find myself in this morning? That’s right, a 4 over 4, but being informed by dieseldave’s article I managed fine :sunglasses:

Dr Dubya:

dieseldave:
It might be helpful if some of the guys reading it would make a comment as a feedback. Things like: was it helpful?

Very!
I got a last minute job through my agency last night for today, over coffee this morning I read up on the varation in gearboxes: I’d taken my test in a ‘slapover’ vehicle, then been driving automatic on recent jobs so the obvious gap in my knowledge was the 4 over 4. Lo and behold what kind of vehicle did I find myself in this morning? That’s right, a 4 over 4, but being informed by dieseldave’s article I managed fine :sunglasses:

Hi Dr Dubya, I’m glad it went well for you. :open_mouth:

Forewarned and all that…:grimacing:
Many thanks for the comment. :wink:

Thanks for the post Dave, it helped before my training with a slapover and it’ll help before I go out on the road properly in a 4over4, just one addition with the slapover and feel free to edit if it confuses things.

When in low range the stick is sprung between 3 & 4, so if empty just push forward for 3rd (assuming truck is happy with a 3rd gear pull away) or if 1st/2nd required, a little pressure to the left.

When in high range the stick is sprung between 5 & 6 again just push forward/backward for 5th and 6th or if 7th & 8th are required a little pressure towards the right will get you to the 7 & 8 gate.

I also found block changing using the top half or the bottom half of the stick easier ie 7th to 5th to 3rd to 1st or 8th to 6th to 4th to 2nd or vice versa for going up the box.

It might of been the truck, but it didn’t like block changing too far and I often couldn’t get 3rd from 6th & 8th :open_mouth: and a double de clutch was required ie dip clutch - slapover to low neutral - raise clutch - dip clutch - select preferred low gear.

MADBAZ:
Thanks for the post Dave, it helped before my training with a slapover and it’ll help before I go out on the road properly in a 4over4, just one addition with the slapover and feel free to edit if it confuses things.

Hi MADBAZ, No mate I don’t think that’s confusing at all. I’d say it’s good advice.:grimacing:

You might yet come up with a few words on the 4 over 4 after you’ve got the hang of it.

It’s good to get people’s views and discuss them, so please feel free to post your experiences. :smiley:

But don’t mention DDC or Lucy will find out :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: