A local driver to me got pulled on the M25 near Enfield and was done for insecure load. He was carrying bales of paper, fully sheeted and the traffic guy said that is HIS opinion, it was unsafe to carry bales 16 foot high when the headboard is only 3foot high and it should be in a curtain-sider. Nothing had moved, just a guys opinion who had never done the job. The judge took the coppers opinion as gospel and both driver and owner got done for insecure load.
It really is a mad world out there…
DoYouMeanMe?:
A local driver to me got pulled on the M25 near Enfield and was done for insecure load. He was carrying bales of paper, fully sheeted and the traffic guy said that is HIS opinion, it was unsafe to carry bales 16 foot high when the headboard is only 3foot high and it should be in a curtain-sider. Nothing had moved, just a guys opinion who had never done the job. The judge took the coppers opinion as gospel and both driver and owner got done for insecure load.
It really is a mad world out there…
That is ridiculous, how about the blokes that do the empty pallets, they’re loaded high but have normal 3ft headboards in most cases, even if they do have a full height headboard, what about the back? No way would I accept a fine for an insecure load for that, in fact unless something has fallen off or the load has shifted how can it be classed as insecure?
I quite agree Newmercman. I’m pretty sure the driver and owner agree as well, but it happened.
Maybe because the legal system is simple. Whoever the judge thinks has more sway and prefers to believe, irrespective of if he is right, sets the direction of any case.
Example 1.
Driver crashes through mechanical defect. reports defect to attending police. Copper had forgot note book and writes it all down on bits of paper and forgot mech defect bit when transferring it to notebook later and doesn’t impound truck for a check. Driver taken to court, other witnesses from case say copper told them driver reported defect, copper apologises to court, law reads the driver must now be let off. £60 and 3 points later and courts legal bod takes judge to one side and educates him, but he refuses to change his mind because he doesn’t like the drivers attitude for saying the copper had lied, even though he was proved correct.Solicitor so peeved he shouts at magistrate and offers driver a free appeal, but as driver says, laws on my side and I still have fine and points and an appeal could double them Nuneaton 1990
Example 2.
Operator has truck that keeps seizing one one cylinder and nobody can find problem. He decides to take wagon off road and, as he also has a vehicle repair garage with a recovery truck, he hires that to haulage side, re-taxes that at commercial VED (17 tonne) and lets the driver use that doing animal feed delivery as a temporary thing to get through the VOR time. So, in effect, he still has the same number of trucks on the road and has simply swapped an artic for a four wheeler. Operators rules says that if you hire in a vehicle for more than 28 days you are advised to notify VOSA, but as he was hoping to get the artic sorted before this, he didn’t bother. He went 5-6 days over the 28 days, but the rule says advised not must. About 6 months later, he is hauled in front of the TA and stripped of £1000.
Laws seem more in place to get money than sort right from wrong.
I could go on to mention a doctor that killed my dad by giving him chemo without doing the blood tests to check his white cell count, which is against the licencing agreement for the supply of that drug, but that’s only illegal if you can afford to take them to court with a panel of ‘experts’ in every medical field sitting on your side in case they are needed, at a cost of many thousands a day. And if you win the case, because your dad was retired and had no earning potential, it is classed, quite legally, that you lost nothing as everything is about money!
This is already a police state and becoming a third world one rapidly!
I drove for a rag merchant,delivering bales of rags to various customers.They came in from all the clothing manufacturers in the Leeds area sorted in our warehouse then put in bales and trampled down.We loaded them"rolling and gunshot" 4 high and a binder.(Ask your granddad!!!)One soft bale on the bottom and it was in to the nearest factory to re-stack.I had a 4wheel Leyland Comet a subby had a 40trailer and he picked up allover Scotland for our Leeds warehouse.That took some loading no H&S then.
Denis F:
WildGoose:
Some of my better efforts;
Less good, usually when rushing trying to keep up with a tractor that is throwing them at you;
Early days, pretty ■■■■ awful
, but it made it, no motorways
Some farmers/baling machines are better than others, so a ropey looking load isn’t always completely my fault.
what’s with all the wasted space at the back
you’d get an extra ton or two on there with a decent overhang
( and you’re right about the bales - it’s hard to make it look right with soft bales )
That’s what I was thinking
When you’re carrying straw you will normally only lose bits for the first couple of miles or so, just loose stuff off the top. Round bales lose even less because they are generally wrapped from top to bottom.
If you strap the load properly it won’t even shift let alone fall off. 99.5% of the time if you see bales lying by the side of the road its the numpty tractor driver who doesn’t bother tying down that has left them there.
A load of straw etc. is going to be a high load and a decent driver will be aware of that and not run into bridges and overhangs etc.
The only time that i ever sheet a load is if i’m carrying fancy stuff or going onto a ferry, and then i have to show the adr plate. But, strangely enough hay doesn’t count as flammable and doesn’t have to be sheeted.
what’s with all the wasted space at the back you’d get an extra ton or two on there with a decent overhang
First three pics are up to weight (if not slightly over, hard to tell straight off the field the bales are always heavier), region of 180 bales or so. The Iveco actually has 300kgs less payload than the DAF, and a 20ft bed, the DAF is 16ft.
The last pic was not a full load wanted, 130-140 from memory.
We aren’t really haulage per se, we deliver what we sell so partly loaded is quite common. Not convinced the boss makes it pay as well as he’d like to think, but as long as they still pay my wages. He’s not one for listening to my advice anyway, but thats another story.
50 bales less always sounds good to me, particular if its Monday morning or Friday afternoon 
just a quick question for you bailer lads on here - when driving on motorways do your bails have to be sheeted by law
i only ask i saw VOSA ■■■■■■ one onto a weighbridge today off the motorway 4 axle long bodied wag with 3 axle drag both full with those massive rectangle bails and as it went under the flyover on the roundabout as i waited to join the r/b there only looked about 2" of room…i followed it as i wanted the same turning hoping mr vosa didnt see me to and pull me in while he was at it (all legal just was on a roll today 
) came back 30 mins later to the roundabout had a look and it was parked up with no driver.
As far as i know there is no law concerning sheeting a load of bales as such. We certainly don’t unless we are carrying something of high value eg. organic hay for horses or something similar. We do have to sheet when going onto the ferry. I would be inclined to put a sheet on if the bales were loosely baled tho.
The guy you saw being pulled probably was collared for something else, overlenth perhaps?
I know what you mean about bridges, i make it my business to know how high my load is and take appropriate measures to avoid problems. I’m lucky in that i use a stepframe trailer so it’s not very often i get loaded as much as 16’ high.
why have they been allowed to carry such dodgy loads for all these years?
they overhang, but they are not indivisable loads.
and they should be covered.
providing that it’s not causing a problem to anybody i can’t see the need to cover a load. as far as iknow an overhang within certain limits is acceptable within the eyes of the law. As for dodgy loads, i guess you’ll get cowboys in any line of work, i know that any load i carry will be safe, secure and legal. To be fair i have seen some funny looking loads and wonder how folk get away with it. Farmers for you i guess.
Ive been involed in hauling hay & straw since 1985, And dont people moan about us !! A natural piece of hay & straw blows of in the first 10mins of loading and you go mental ,ITS ONLY VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY ,LIGHT And if you swallowed any you wouldnt choke and it be part of a good diet,ITS ONE OF THE OLDEST TYPES OF LOADS TO BE TRANSPORTED !!! Sheetings a night mare in a field in wind and after taking 2 hours to load 800 small bales then sleep the night in the field when driving hours are up ,why hell would you want to spend another hour sheeting for no reason !! i only sheet if its bad rain , Why would i spend £100s pounds on a sheet just to tare and rip the crap out of it on trees. We seem in most lorry drivers worlds to be treated odd which makes me laugh, Hay and straw drivers spend nights out ,rope and when needed sheet,load them selfs with most types of customers machines,drive down most roads and dirt tracks with lorry & drags loaded 16ft high that most 4x4s never see and then squeeze them into hill farms in the middle of no where,then load outa wet fields to be towed out by tractors, lorry covered in crap,Roll straps up soaked in cow ■■■■ to find youve ran outa driving hours ,sleep in cab with flies buzzing in the middle of no where,Try fix lorry covered in crap when no phone signal ,And yet some lorry drivers treat us as fools and moan when a peice straw blows on them and they probably no sod all about the lorry there driving ,wont touch any part of there load ,get dirty and most just trunk from A to B ,It makes me laugh watching (some) artic drivers reverse in the services, they aint a clue yet look at me parked for the night with a wagon & drag load of hay or straw as though im a hay chewing inbread fool.PLUS ive never heard of a load of hay to combust and my loads have never burst into flames randomley or ever in my time since 1985 have i known hay lorries combust into flames,Like most lorry fires its electrical,hot brakes or arson,Unless your a hay lorry and people think the worse ,My little rant i thank you ,i sleep now zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
haylorry:
Ive been involed in hauling hay & straw since 1985, And dont people moan about us !! A natural piece of hay & straw blows of in the first 10mins of loading and you go mental ,ITS ONLY VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY ,LIGHT And if you swallowed any you wouldnt choke and it be part of a good diet,ITS ONE OF THE OLDEST TYPES OF LOADS TO BE TRANSPORTED !!! Sheetings a night mare in a field in wind and after taking 2 hours to load 800 small bales then sleep the night in the field when driving hours are up ,why hell would you want to spend another hour sheeting for no reason !! i only sheet if its bad rain , Why would i spend £100s pounds on a sheet just to tare and rip the crap out of it on trees. We seem in most lorry drivers worlds to be treated odd which makes me laugh, Hay and straw drivers spend nights out ,rope and when needed sheet,load them selfs with most types of customers machines,drive down most roads and dirt tracks with lorry & drags loaded 16ft high that most 4x4s never see and then squeeze them into hill farms in the middle of no where,then load outa wet fields to be towed out by tractors, lorry covered in crap,Roll straps up soaked in cow [zb] to find youve ran outa driving hours ,sleep in cab with flies buzzing in the middle of no where,Try fix lorry covered in crap when no phone signal ,And yet some lorry drivers treat us as fools and moan when a peice straw blows on them and they probably no sod all about the lorry there driving ,wont touch any part of there load ,get dirty and most just trunk from A to B ,It makes me laugh watching (some) artic drivers reverse in the services, they aint a clue yet look at me parked for the night with a wagon & drag load of hay or straw as though im a hay chewing inbread fool.PLUS ive never heard of a load of hay to combust and my loads have never burst into flames randomley or ever in my time since 1985 have i known hay lorries combust into flames,Like most lorry fires its electrical,hot brakes or arson,Unless your a hay lorry and people think the worse ,My little rant i thank you ,i sleep now zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
have to agree mate ,i would want big bucks to do that work
hats off to you guys from me 
Thanks Gez ,It anoys me when most curtainsider drivers dont strap anything, Yet i had a comment the other day by a smart ■■■ driver asking does the big bales need more straps on my load ,Im not saying theres no bad hay & straw lorries on the road because there is, just like theres bad curtainsider lorries, But at least you can see we have straped our load ,How many 16ft double deck curtainsiders are zooming around with internal straps on that wont hold if she tips and thats if the drivers even straped it, Most lost hay & straw bales on the road are local tractors & trailers, And yes we get pulled alot by VOSA , and ive never had a prob ,Yet 7.5tonner boxvans ,tauts all get parked up overloaded and i wave good bye to the vosa man with no probs, Its very tough life for a straw lorry ,high loads my load today weighs 21tonnes,trees ,tight hedeges,mud roads,wet fields, but as long as shes legal the VOSA mans not worried if its not polished and shiney, Road maintanence not fancy paint and chrome keeps you legel…
After 21 years I have never seen any of it catch fire or fall off, crack on 
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I prob tip the bloody thing over now ,Hit a bridge and knock a tree down ,break telephone wires ,fall off load break my leg , let a farmers sheep out on the road and sink into no mans land in a field get bit by farm dog and choke on a farmers wifes cake tommoro and eat my words, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
haylorry:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I prob tip the bloody thing over now ,Hit a bridge and knock a tree down ,break telephone wires ,fall off load break my leg , let a farmers sheep out on the road and sink into no mans land in a field get bit by farm dog and choke on a farmers wifes cake tommoro and eat my words, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
sounds a normal day then, only ive never seen cake offered
maybe once youve tipped you could just "pop " back along youre route and sweep up any stray straw on the roadside theres a good chap
Hahaha
DadsRetired:
and what about Sugar Beet wagons?By law they dont need to have their loads covered “as the beet holds itself into the trailer”. Go near any Sugar Beet factory at this time of year and the road is littered with the stuff so its obviously not holding each other into the trailer.
In the way back yonder, when I was just a boy 
netting a load of sugar beet was optional, it was definitely inconvienient, 'cos they sample the load with a big auger to see how much crap the farmer has tried to bulk it out with . However, if they got caught dropping beet on the road it was 15 bob a beet (75p to you sprogs). I’m going back to 1970 when it was plenty of money (in fact, I think that was what the gaffer tipped the driver to find out what part of the load they were sampling any one day, so he could load the crap in another part 
)
Going on to straw/hay bales which is what the thread was all about in the first place, I think it a bit of an exaggeration to say it nearly all gets blown away. There has to be a bit of lee-way for drivers whose loads are of that nature, I regularly carry shredded paper in compactors, and while we absolutely must make every effort to ensure load security, inevitably, you get some blowing about 
,and you just have to hope that the powers that be don’t follow the paper chase! In my agency days, I worked for a well known dairy for a while, delivering milk to supermarkets and the like, one day I had a cage collapse on me and (un beknown to yours truly) it started a chain reaction, once one is loose, then it dose’nt take long for a lot of them to get loose. When I reached my tip it was running like a river out of the tailgate, and there was a trail several miles long .
Only ever done hay & straw bales with a field buggy and week’s trailer, look no ropes
bit of a worry going over the old railway crossings that most farmers had on their land. especially after an old lad who worked on the farm, got the front of his Fordson Major taken off by a train when I was about 11. I was normally with him but had a hospital appointment that day.
It was the cakes that interested me as I used to deliver liquid fertiliser around Germany, mainly up country lanes, no addresses and the customers tanks varied from 25 litre drums to old slurry tankers, occasionally you had to park in the field and keep refilling the farmers sprayer. It was a great job and the bonus was that we were normally fed by the farmers wife, either in the field or after tipping in the fold yard. Deutsche kuchen? Ja’ Bitte!