In or Out- the EU referendum mega thread

carryfast · 16 July 2016 23:19

Dolph:

Carryfast:

Dolph:
Philip Hammond has said Britain will come out the single market as part of its decision to leave the EU, but will negotiate access to the bloc.

“We will come out of the single market as a result of our decision to leave the European Union," Theresa May’s new Chancellor told LBC.

“The question is how we negotiate with the European Union, not from the point of view of being members of it but from the point of view of being close neighbours and trade partners of it."

He added: “I would like to see us negotiating access to the single market for Britain’s businesses, so we can go on selling our goods and services into the European Union market and indeed enjoying the benefits of consuming European Union goods and services here as we do now.”

independent.co.uk/news/uk/po … 36101.html

There’s no reason to invoke and wait for article 50 to be discharged in that.It’s an almost overnight move.IE no article 50,no EEA.We join Switzerland in EFTA in dictating terms in the form of access to the single market for EFTA member states to be signed by the EU by Friday 21/7/2016 take it or leave it.We’re out.

Well you voted out, you must have balls to start the stupid article 50, not after October, not by the next year. You have to put your money where your mouth is.
Your plan is a child play, EFTA member by friday…yeah Im Santa by the way

I didn’t say we’d be back in EFTA by Friday I said negotiate access to the single market ‘for EFTA states’ by Friday.It isn’t rocket science it’s a case of here’s the joint Swiss and UK proposal sign here take it or leave it.But we’re out as of Friday no article 50 and I’m sure ze Germans won’t want any interruption to their UK exports from that date to when we join EFTA.IE a specific interim arrangement for us in that case signed at the same time.

tommy_t · 17 July 2016 02:17

As long as we control our borders as anything else isn’t brexit, and all i have heard about this f,ing single market bs is that it would mean free movement stays,as would the eu dictatorship, that would be a sell out , and pointless out means out an end to the eu dictatorship and end to free movement and of course out of the EU

carryfast · 17 July 2016 03:05

tommy t:
all i have heard about this f,ing single market bs is that it would mean free movement stays,as would the eu dictatorship, that would be a sell out , and pointless out means out an end to the eu dictatorship and end to free movement and of course out of the EU

The Cons know that Germany isn’t going to want to get involved in any threat to its exports to us.The only reason they want EEA membership is because as always our immigration policy is all about maintaining a limitless supply of cheap labour.While the Socialists think it adds to their vote.While our banks are exposed to EU investments which they think are at risk if the EU loses our net contributions.On that note if May and Hammond had any intention of not swapping EU for EEA they would have made a statement ruling it out by now.

desypete · 17 July 2016 04:34

tommy t:

desypete:

Carryfast:

tommy t:
May has zero intention of taking us out of the EU , or should that be the establishment elites who tell her what to do won’t let us leave it

She thinks sharia law is a good thing for the country, and has failed n her last post as H.O minister ,and you trust her?

It’s fair to say that ‘something’ made Farage walk way.The only logical conclusion being that he’d totally over looked the contradiction in trying to return powers of Sovereignty to a National Parliament that as a majority doesn’t want it and it then finally dawned on him.Obviously that fact hasn’t got through to Britten though.Yet.

he walked away to get his life back, he walked away as he achieved his life’s ambition, over 20 years he has fought to get out of the eu, that is 20 years of being laughed at, being called all the racist scum names going, by the anti English racist scum who are free to be able to vent there anger and hate towards people who dont want huge numbers of ethnics taking over etc

He may of got his life back , but he did not get us out of the EU, apart from the leave vote being the majority nothing has changed So how has he achieved his goal that he waited 20yrs for, yes the establishment got a smack in the nose, but it re elected it’s self (May as PM) So ding ding round 2, we won a battle but not the war, he should of stayed on to see this through, maybe he was pushed , because ukip sponsors didn’t think with him in charge they could win a GE■■?, Or both farage and sponsor were bought off by the establishment

just look at how he was treated when it was time for a campaign ? ukip and farage were ignored and a brexit team was to spearhead the leave campaign, just who was it again that managed to get us the vote in the first place ?

ukip were totally ignored when the campaign got under way after all the years of hard work and effort that bloke had put in when it came to d - day ukip had to campaign on there own with no ties to brexit
they told the truth with that poster of what is waiting for us if we dont vote to leave and everyone knew it was the truth except for the political correct lot and the bbc who still tried to play the soft-hearted race card and paint farage and the ukip team as extremists.

now we won the vote what do they do ? engage with ukip in any way shape of form ? despite ukip having all the meps the government ignores them and does it own thing

now i am prepared to wait till the end of the year to see what really does happen and unfold, as i honestly believe there is to much at stake for our own government and for politics as a whole in this country for them not to honour what has been voted for
they will lose any ounce of credibility that may be left in this country should they decide to play with the fed up voters.

the bad feeling up north will not go away, the unfairness of eu nationals coming over here and earning 4 times there normal wages they could earn back home and making a killing at our expense will not go away, the unfairness of the long waiting times to see a dr will not go away the housing shortage will not go away
it will only get worse the longer they do nothing and they know it so in a way the out vote has helped them to be able to finally deal with these problems
the fat ugly german bint can shout as loud as she wants about the free movement of people but the more they tread on the working class who are feeling down trodden the worse it will end up
i can see if things dont change then people will have no choice but to take matters into there own hands to try to spell out to the eu nationals who keep coming over here that there not welcome
now that might seem extreme to some but for many who live in high numbers of migrants its not extreme at all as they are desperate for things to change and to change in there favour for once
they will have tried the peaceful way of getting what they wanted, so its up to the government of the day to really take this sort of thing on-board and to react to the mood of the nation
this is the sort of thing that reminds me of how civil wars would be fought over, we already have a north and south that are poles apart, its now citys v the rest of the people in many areas, so who is to say some bands of extremists will not take it upon themselves to start a freedom movement ? then all hell would break lose ?

the vote for out with so many people turning out and voting for it shows clearly what the mood is like around the country, they can not ignore it as it really will not go away. i believe politicians of all sides will have understood just what the people are saying, they have already now stopped running around calling people racists who had voted out and now call them concerned citizens who are right to have those concerns blah blah

remember they threw everything they could at the public to try to get them to vote to remain and it just didnt work as there are to many people in this country that have been affected by the high numbers of people who have flooded this land for way to long

none of those issue will go away hence i do believe the government will and must obey the wishes of the people first and foremost.
all that is happening now is a peacock dating ritual where there all trying to put on a good show to all, in the hope they can get a leg over although who the hell would want a leg over with the german bint or may or even that ugly thing in the labour party who is standing up to the labour leader god only knows ?

but the key to it all is a bit of time i think many people want to see the results in a flash i wouldnt mind leaving the eu next week and closing the doors but even i understand things have to be done in a diplomatic and lawful way and sadly it does take a bit of time so i am prepared to wait till the end of the year before i start to think conspiracy theory’s or panicking that there will be a stitch up

desypete · 17 July 2016 05:05

Winseer:

OVLOV JAY:

Winseer:
We leave the EU the moment we start breaking their laws, and ignoring them in all things other than what’s done in the name of “cordial relations”. We have cordial relations with Tonga and such places - and we don’t obey any of THEIR rules do we?

The options are very simple: (1) We do not trade at all with the EU, and they lose making a profit by selling stuff to US, or (2) We trade with them tariff and membership free, which makes a mockery of the contributions still paid by France and Italy in particular.

Politically, (2) is impossible for the EU commission, as it would wreck the entire project.

(1) is therefore the way to go - they cannot stop us if we re-establish ALL our foreign trade routes with non-EU countries. We’re an island with a considerable merchant navy still. How hard can it be?

Talk of “cannot leave for x years” is ■■■■■■■■ - since we’ve already left, but the richard heads in whitehall have yet to cancel the standing order which we should NOT be paying already.

The best way to “get that money” regardless of if it is £350 a week or any other amount - by NOT paying it over.

If we’re stupid enough to keep on paying “because some trade routes are still in transit” - then bigger fools us. There’s really NO need.

We “Get back control” the moment we STOP paying that money then.

Theresa May seems to have gone for the “I’m an unpopular PM until 2020” option thinking she’ll end up the same as Gordon Brown. FFS if she’d just do what it said on the bloody brexit tin - she’d easily win any election called at any point between now and this time next year - let alone 2020!

Already putting Remainer cronies into too many of the top jobs (“half” was the maximum most would countenance!) means that it’s all the harder to stop any payments now. We don’t have a Brexiteer chancellor or home secretary. What’s Boris going to do other then set up the NEW trade routes? - He has no power over those currently in effect, and therefore cannot very well cancel them can he?

We MUST BREAK EU LAWS to leave the EU. Trying to do it “lawfully” or “by the book” or “at EU convienience” or “at Remainer convienience” or “with Sturgeons backing” - let’s face it - is NEVER going to happen.

I hope UKIP are busy getting candidates ready for all 650 parliamentary seats - now we all know which way the wind is blowing.

I’ve already sent an email to our local leader about standing in my ward, as we didn’t have one at the last election

Funny you should say that - I might consider standing in mine, rather than the Doc who didn’t win the seat last time. This country needs transport and trade experts right now - and there are a few of them to be had among our very own number I reckon!

funny thing i might have a go myself, i can not spell without a spell checker, i am a hariy arsed ex trucker, brought up 5 great kids on my own for many years, had a go at business myself and failed at it but learned a lot of what its really like when its you who has to keep the work coming in etc all in all i am just a guy with no strings but a passion for people of this country given a chance
from the tuition fees to be scrapped to kicking out all political corect nonsense, to getting this country back to some sort of state it once was when i was a kid, i use the bin men story many times of the changes to that single industry and how its now the paying public who have to put the bins out for the bin lads and if they forget they miss out etc yet they still have to pay full wack in council tax
that sort of thing would stop and a simple team of bin men would be employed to get your bins out for you as you should get value for your money you had over to the councils where it matters and benefits everyone
instead of the money being given out to projects such as the left handed masturbaters society or the save our beards and handlebar moustache appreciation fund
all those crazy hair brained things would take a back seat and services which are more important and that really benefit the people get top billing like increaseing pay for home helps who care for our old folk, we will all be old one day and who knows might need there services so it makes sense to get that right

this country really does need a hell of a shake up and a huge change to what really matters and is important and putting our own people first and looking after our own people in our own community is what should be being done

the problem is the people who are standing in elections are not the average joe soap but more the high middle class like the Kinnock family who have done very nicely out of politics they dont give a flying fig about the people any more its just a nice gravy train for them and they have made sure they looked after there own first, they didn’t feel the need to give there sons job over to an eu national who could do the job for half the pay did they ? but there very happy to tell the rest of us that its not a real problem

so we need people who have real life experiences to bring in to a government and councils. not the political class we have today who wouldn’t be seen dead buying the cheapest bog roll on the market to wipe there arse with, as it would have to be a more expensive bog roll, or one that is 100% recycled and complies with eu standards rule 4 subsection 5 para 6 blah blah bloody blah

so would i get your vote ?

winseer · 17 July 2016 09:46

I reckon we should all look to get involved at our local levels… If there is someone there already on the Transport ticket, including yourself - Yes. I would vote for you, or anyone of us who just happens to be in place first, if it’s not actually me. My main weakness is Dyslexia. I can read print in a book or on a computer screen fine - but cannot resolve “small print” such as on a mobile phone or even those small stick-it notes. I struggle with both small writing and other people’s handwriting. NOT good for a “Management and paperwork” type job.

I can type at a decent speed though, and reckon I can make a political argument that attempts to see things from all points of view.

I have no issues with those who vote according to their own lifestyles. That makes perfect sense. I only despair of those who vote according to a misunderstanding of the “facts”…

That would include ‘Skinheads voting for Brexit’ as much as ‘blue collar workers voting for Remain’…

“Fear of Upheaval”?
“Eager to make a moderate right argument look like a right-wing one?”

tommy_t · 17 July 2016 21:24

Some fashion Brexit stylee store.breitbart.com/

winseer · 17 July 2016 23:56

fuse:
I am starting to think there will be an election in some way to wangle getting out of the leave vote, if there is another in or out vote because of new conditions I do not think Scotland should be included because they will get independence in a few years so they will be out of the ball game

Yeh. What happens if the two main parties both stand on a “remain by second referendum” or “remain by the back door” tickets respectively?

UKIP need to get 650 candidates in place ASAP.

carryfast · 18 July 2016 01:23

Winseer:
What happens if the two main parties both stand on a “remain by second referendum” or “remain by the back door” tickets respectively?

UKIP need to get 650 candidates in place ASAP.

As I said how does UKIP win the required seats to make a parliamentary majority when we already know the demographic make up of the required constituencies.

Realistically the argument is that between a Federal Europe based on an alliance of Socialists and Federalist Conservative type groups like ours as opposed to a Confederal Europe based on the sovereignty of the Nation State in the form of Supremacy given to the National MEP groups.

We obviously won’t sort that out by trying to make the UK parliament implement a 52% Brexit referendum vote,which they are not democratically accountable to.Because it’s all about an,irrelevant in parliamentary terms,PR type based electoral figure.

Nor would it even fix the real problem.Which is an undemocratic dictatorial Federal European governmental system that the UK parliament supports and agrees with and which it would obviously just put us back into anyway.

tommy_t · 18 July 2016 22:01

More pro eu propaganda this time CH5 brexit the big debate , It must have been Buy one moron and get ten free this week One dumb ■■■■ hurt millennial wearing a dress with the EU logo on it says she wants democracy, (but wants to be in the EU) and that all this talk about brexit is a smoke screen to hide ttip ,
And then when someone who is anti EU wants to speak the audience interrupt him, or the presenter cuts them off early

winseer · 18 July 2016 23:58

… That’s why it’s so damned hard to find a PROPER unbiased debate in all of this… We’re all biased really of course.

I was never going to be won over to voting Remain by promises of dosh, clarity of lies, or respect of the most posh “experts” as nominated by someone other than myself.

I’ll reserve my own judgement at all times, and vote on anything according to the full case as has been so far - complete or not.

carryfast · 19 July 2016 00:02

tommy t:
More pro eu propaganda this time CH5 brexit the big debate , It must have been Buy one moron and get ten free this week One dumb ■■■■ hurt millennial wearing a dress with the EU logo on it says she wants democracy, (but wants to be in the EU) and that all this talk about brexit is a smoke screen to hide ttip ,
And then when someone who is anti EU wants to speak the audience interrupt him, or the presenter cuts them off early

Pro EU anti TTIP. Look on the bright side remain will seem like a good idea if Corbyn wins the next election and Orban is president of the EU with Dolph’s help.

Then all the remainers will want to leave.

tommy_t · 19 July 2016 00:04

And more propaganda from the Britain’s Braainwashing Corportation http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/18/muslims-were-the-real-victims-of-the-nice-terror-attack-the-bbc-explains/

Meanwhile ‘Prosecute lying politicians... including Boris!’ Crowdfunders raise £27K for Brexit legal challenge — RT UK News So if we are talking about all lying polititians then Cameron should be included along with all the other remain liars

dolph · 19 July 2016 15:51

Theresa May will not trigger article 50 of the Lisbon treaty initiating the UK’s departure from the European Union before the end of 2016, the high court has been told.

At the opening of the first legal challenge to the process of Brexit, government lawyers conceded that the politically sensitive case was likely to be appealed up to the supreme court.

At least seven private actions – arguing that only parliament and not the prime minister has the authority to invoke article 50 – have been identified to the court.

Confirming that ministers are not aiming to push the exit button until next year at the earliest, Jason Coppel QC, for the government, conceded that there was nonetheless “some urgency” to the issue.

“Notification [triggering] article 50 will not occur before the end of 2016,” Coppel told the court. Should anything change, he promised, the court would be given advance notice.

carryfast · 19 July 2016 16:45

Dolph:
At least seven private actions – arguing that only parliament and not the prime minister has the authority to invoke article 50 – have been identified to the court.

Which would also by implication mean that Brexit based on a referendum vote was illegal.

Which leaves the question why not make that legal challenge before the referendum on that basis.As opposed to only after the Leave referendum vote won and why was no such challenge also brought before the referendum in 1975.

Meanwhile unfortunately for all those who’ve naively been led to believe that a referendum vote not a parliamentary one would get us out I wouldn’t want to bet on such a legal challenge not being successful.

tommy_t · 19 July 2016 16:51

Carryfast:

Dolph:
At least seven private actions – arguing that only parliament and not the prime minister has the authority to invoke article 50 – have been identified to the court.

Which would also by implication mean that Brexit based on a referendum vote was illegal.

Which leaves the question why not make that legal challenge before the referendum on that basis.As opposed to only after the Leave referendum vote won and why was no such challenge also brought before the referendum in 1975.

Meanwhile unfortunately for all those who’ve naively been led to believe that a referendum vote not a parliamentary one would get us out I wouldn’t want to bet on such a legal challenge not being successful.

Article 50 is bs we don’t need to use it to leave the EU

Also if the following is true why are muslims allowed in to any western country ?

The 20 Commandments of Muhammad, the founder of Islam.

Thou shall ■■■■, Marry, and Divorce Pre-pubescent Girls. Koran 65:4

Thou shall have ■■■ Slaves, Work Slaves. Koran 4:3, 4:24, 5:89, 33:50, 58:3, 70:30

Thou shall Beat ■■■ Slaves, Work Slaves, and Wives. Koran 4:34

Thou shall have 4 Muslim male witnesses to prove ■■■■. Koran 24:13

Thou shall Kill those who insult Islam or Mohammed. Koran 33:57

Thou shall Crucify and Amputate non-Muslims. Koran 8:12, 47:4

Thou shall Kill non-Muslims. Guarantee receiving 72 virgins in heaven. Koran 9:111

Thou shall Kill anyone who leaves Islam. Koran 2:217, 4:89

Thou shall Behead non-Muslims. Koran 8:12, 47:4

Thou shall Kill AND be Killed for Allah. Koran 9:5

Thou shall Terrorize non-Muslims. Koran 8:12, 8:60

Thou shall Steal & Rob from non-Muslims. Koran Chapter 8 (Booty/Spoils of War)

Thou shall Lie to Strengthen Islam. Koran 3:28, 16:106

Thou shall Fight non-Muslim even if you don’t want to. Koran 2:216

Thou shall not take non-Muslims as friends. Koran 5:51

Thou shall Call non-Muslims Pigs and Apes. Koran 5:60, 7:166, 16:106

Thou shall Treat non-Muslims as the vilest creatures with NO mercy. Koran 98:6

Thou shall Treat non-Muslims as sworn enemies. Koran 4:101

Thou shall Kill non-Muslims for not converting to Islam. Koran 9:29

Thou shall Extort non-Muslims to keep Islam strong. Koran 9:29.

We need to protect our people from this to do this we need full control of our borders , we can’t do this whilst we are dictated to by the muslim hugging EU

Again in France another un provoked attack http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/19/muslim-stabbed-children-scantily-dressed/

carryfast · 19 July 2016 17:30

tommy t:
Article 50 is bs we don’t need to use it to leave the EU

Even going by Gerard Britten’s own idea it would still need an act of parliament to annul the treaties.Which means the same catch 22 being relied on by the remainers of a referendum vote based on PR that can’t/won’t be implemented by a Europhile parliamentary vote by MP’s with a totally different mandate based on constituency boundaries.All of which was foreseeable before the referendum by anyone of Farage’s calibre.

tommy_t · 19 July 2016 19:01

Carryfast:

tommy t:
Article 50 is bs we don’t need to use it to leave the EU

Even going by Gerard Britten’s own idea it would still need an act of parliament to annul the treaties.Which means the same catch 22 being relied on by the remainers of a referendum vote based on PR that can’t/won’t be implemented by a Europhile parliamentary vote by MP’s with a totally different mandate based on constituency boundaries.All of which was foreseeable before the referendum by anyone of Farage’s calibre.

In which the left extremists will have a full blown riot on their hands , the f ckr’s need teaching a lesson or too, one being we are sick of the status Quo And we were given a vote that is an order for the shower of f wits to remove us from the EU the rest of the clusterf shouldn’t get a say or be able to block or change that

carryfast · 19 July 2016 19:27

tommy t:
In which the left extremists will have a full blown riot on their hands , the f ckr’s need teaching a lesson or too, one being we are sick of the status Quo And we were given a vote that is an order for the shower of f wits to remove us from the EU the rest of the clusterf shouldn’t get a say or be able to block or change that

As I’ve said that would be counterproductive and would solve nothing and lose us the moral high ground.We really need to forget about the idea of the Europhile parliament implementing Brexit against its will on an unworkable PR referendum vote and get on with sorting out the Socialist v Nationalist issue within Europe as a whole.Which is the mandate which Farage would already have had but decided to throw it away by telling Le Pen to do one and then going along with Cameron’s scam Brexit referendum agenda instead.Bearing in mind that the Europhile Cons,including May and Hammond,form a large part of that pro EU Federal agenda not just Corbyn’s rabble.

tommy_t · 19 July 2016 19:54

Carryfast:

tommy t:
In which the left extremists will have a full blown riot on their hands , the f ckr’s need teaching a lesson or too, one being we are sick of the status Quo And we were given a vote that is an order for the shower of f wits to remove us from the EU the rest of the clusterf shouldn’t get a say or be able to block or change that

As I’ve said that would be counterproductive and would solve nothing and lose us the moral high ground.We really need to forget about the idea of the Europhile parliament implementing Brexit against its will on an unworkable PR referendum vote and get on with sorting out the Socialist v Nationalist issue within Europe as a whole.Which is the mandate which Farage would already have had but decided to throw it away by telling Le Pen to do one and then going along with Cameron’s scam Brexit referendum agenda instead.Bearing in mind that the Europhile Cons,including May and Hammond,form a large part of that pro EU Federal agenda not just Corbyn’s rabble.

Well i don’t see 17.4 million people just doing nothing or saying nothing can you, counter productive or not will they give a dam? if they block it or otherwise prevent us leaving the eu, they will have proved that talking and other non violent means don’t work with this shower, in fact they will have denied us democracy , even that looser cameron has said that they would not go against the voters wishes So maybe they will have to break the law then to get us out, bush and blair got away with having an illegal war so what’s the chances of may standing in the dock?