In or Out- the EU referendum mega thread

tommy t:
I also think this should be our real flag bin that union jack

Was just watching CH4 about the tory bs, and i see that Osborne has been binned , though what difference that will make with Hammond in his place i don’t know, probably more of the same cuts ect, but the bs and pro establishment bias spouted by their studio guests they all were deluded , what boils my ■■■■ is that people are so dumb they take whatever they say as correct and true without question

+1

This is England and we’re English.

Notice how our version of Merkel made the big thing about her Federalist credentials and the Cons being an ideologically Federalist Party.Make no mistake she’s thrown down the gauntlet to any Nationalist feeling in the country.In everything from making it clear that she won’t compromise the UK to take us out of the EU to not compromising the EU to take us out of the EU.Putting Hammond in as second in command also shows that the remainers are running this agenda.Expect reversal of the vote or EEA member state to follow. :imp:

OVLOV JAY:
I think either the chancellor or home sec should have gone to a brexiter. Apart from David Davis, nobody inspires me that they will go for a tough stance

They instead have that four eyed hound rudd instead who is one of those that the BBC likes to keep inviting on to their BIAS ,PRO ESTABLISHMENT PRO EU question time

David Davis minister for Brexit. CF will be happy at one appointment.

Wiretwister:
David Davis minister for Brexit. CF will be happy at one appointment.

That would depend on ‘who’ is in ‘control’ of the ‘Ministry’ for ‘Brexit’ and the definition of ‘Brexit’ in this case not meaning a strictly remain controlled EEA member state agenda.On that note I’d have been ‘happier’ to see David Davis as PM and Kate Hoey,invited on a co alition basis,as ‘Minister for Brexit’. :wink:

Wiretwister:
David Davis minister for Brexit. CF will be happy at one appointment.

And what dimension have you just returned from? :open_mouth:

Evil8Beezle:

Wiretwister:
David Davis minister for Brexit. CF will be happy at one appointment.

And what dimension have you just returned from? :open_mouth:

To be fair we don’t know for sure how much power that does or doesn’t provide or exactly what the agenda is.Why not just give a date for article 50 to be invoked ( anytime this week will be fine ) and rule out EEA membership job done. :smiley: :wink:

Carryfast:

Evil8Beezle:

Wiretwister:
David Davis minister for Brexit. CF will be happy at one appointment.

And what dimension have you just returned from? :open_mouth:

To be fair we don’t know for sure how much power that does or doesn’t provide or exactly what the agenda is.Why not just give a date for article 50 to be invoked ( anytime this week will be fine ) and rule out EEA membership job done. :smiley: :wink:

So it’s not going to be this dimension then? :open_mouth:

Here is an example why this country is so ■■■■■■ http://www.southportgb.co.uk/southport/forum/David_Cameron-55012520.htm And that is just one example of the people believing the ■■■■ the politicians and their media spout on almost every day

Evil8Beezle:
Boris Johnson is made foreign secretary! :open_mouth:

Sorry world

:open_mouth: :smiley:

tommy t:
Here is an example why this country is so [zb] http://www.southportgb.co.uk/southport/forum/David_Cameron-55012520.htm And that is just one example of the people believing the [zb] the politicians and their media spout on almost every day

More like the Con Party faithful.This is all about the argument among the Labour vote and whether that vote can now be turned against the Socialists and the Blairites and their Conservative and LibDim allies in sufficient numbers to win out.Bearing in mind it will also mean taking on the financial establishment,that has already happily sold us out to both the dictatorial EU Federal project and the Chinese Communist Party,saying it ain’t going to be easy is an understatement.

Carryfast:

Winseer:

OVLOV JAY:
My money’s on “after careful consideration, and in light of the deals offered by Brussels, it’s not in the interest of the country to invoke article 50” sometime around November. Maybe calling a general election, and she might even sling her hook for someone like Crabb to take over, if she’s a political sacrifice, just being thrown under the bus to scupper democracy :imp:

Crabbe has as much chance of taking over the Conservatives as the Mysterons have of taking me over.

I’d give Theresa May until 18:01 tonight to invoke article 50.

If it doesn’t happen by the end of this week - those brexiteers like Boris that loaned their support these past few days, will smell “stitch up” and within days - the Tory party will be as divided a rabble as Labour are right now.

I think you’ve missed the small issue that the Conservative ‘Eurosceptics’ don’t have an electoral mandate,among the Conservative vote,to Leave.Our MP being just one example of that being a Conservative Eurosceptic in a safe Con seat that’s a 60/40 remain constituency. :open_mouth: :unamused: That’s in addition to the fact that ‘his’ ideas of Leave were more along the lines of the race to the bottom free markets ideas of Hannan not the protectionist economics of Hoey and Boyd.

Trust me we’re going no where and if article 50 does get invoked you can bet it will just swap EU for EEA.

Here’s a thought: What it looks like you’re suggesting is that EVERY politician should be a turncoat to an opinion that is NOT theirs - if their own constituents are of the “opposite mind”…

The concept that a 60/40 remain constituency could have a eurosceptic MP seems barmy to me. :unamused: :open_mouth:

How can there be any safe seats at all - if the voters think one thing, but their preferred candidate thinks the exact opposite?

If Corbyn, for example - had backed Brexit from the very beginning, and been an effective opposition to Cameron’s late government - we’d be facing a general election by this point, with either Corbyn winning, or UKIP mopping up all the exodus of voters that didn’t quite make it across the floor…

Labour missed a chance to be on the winning side - and with it, missed their chance to actually GET that snap general election. Theresa May has no need to face one until 2020 now. And why should she?

That gives her four years to “get it done” rather than the two we’re told it will take, or the six some fearmongers reckon it will take. I reckon she’s got a good chance of pulling it off - IF she keeps all her promises, which - let’s face it - we don’t really expect much of our politicians - do we? :unamused:

Evil8Beezle:

Wiretwister:
David Davis minister for Brexit. CF will be happy at one appointment.

And what dimension have you just returned from? :open_mouth:

The 5th of course.

Winseer:

Carryfast:

Winseer:

OVLOV JAY:
My money’s on “after careful consideration, and in light of the deals offered by Brussels, it’s not in the interest of the country to invoke article 50” sometime around November. Maybe calling a general election, and she might even sling her hook for someone like Crabb to take over, if she’s a political sacrifice, just being thrown under the bus to scupper democracy :imp:

Crabbe has as much chance of taking over the Conservatives as the Mysterons have of taking me over.

I’d give Theresa May until 18:01 tonight to invoke article 50.

If it doesn’t happen by the end of this week - those brexiteers like Boris that loaned their support these past few days, will smell “stitch up” and within days - the Tory party will be as divided a rabble as Labour are right now.

I think you’ve missed the small issue that the Conservative ‘Eurosceptics’ don’t have an electoral mandate,among the Conservative vote,to Leave.Our MP being just one example of that being a Conservative Eurosceptic in a safe Con seat that’s a 60/40 remain constituency. :open_mouth: :unamused: That’s in addition to the fact that ‘his’ ideas of Leave were more along the lines of the race to the bottom free markets ideas of Hannan not the protectionist economics of Hoey and Boyd.

Trust me we’re going no where and if article 50 does get invoked you can bet it will just swap EU for EEA.

Here’s a thought: What it looks like you’re suggesting is that EVERY politician should be a turncoat to an opinion that is NOT theirs - if their own constituents are of the “opposite mind”…

The concept that a 60/40 remain constituency could have a eurosceptic MP seems barmy to me. :unamused: :open_mouth:

How can there be any safe seats at all - if the voters think one thing, but their preferred candidate thinks the exact opposite?

If Corbyn, for example - had backed Brexit from the very beginning, and been an effective opposition to Cameron’s late government - we’d be facing a general election by this point, with either Corbyn winning, or UKIP mopping up all the exodus of voters that didn’t quite make it across the floor…

Labour missed a chance to be on the winning side - and with it, missed their chance to actually GET that snap general election. Theresa May has no need to face one until 2020 now. And why should she?

That gives her four years to “get it done” rather than the two we’re told it will take, or the six some fearmongers reckon it will take. I reckon she’s got a good chance of pulling it off - IF she keeps all her promises, which - let’s face it - we don’t really expect much of our politicians - do we? :unamused:

That’s a pragmatic view that isn’t going to go down well with CF! :smiley:

Winseer:

Carryfast:
I think you’ve missed the small issue that the Conservative ‘Eurosceptics’ don’t have an electoral mandate,among the Conservative vote,to Leave.Our MP being just one example of that being a Conservative Eurosceptic in a safe Con seat that’s a 60/40 remain constituency. :open_mouth: :unamused: That’s in addition to the fact that ‘his’ ideas of Leave were more along the lines of the race to the bottom free markets ideas of Hannan not the protectionist economics of Hoey and Boyd.

Trust me we’re going no where and if article 50 does get invoked you can bet it will just swap EU for EEA.

Here’s a thought: What it looks like you’re suggesting is that EVERY politician should be a turncoat to an opinion that is NOT theirs - if their own constituents are of the “opposite mind”…

The concept that a 60/40 remain constituency could have a eurosceptic MP seems barmy to me. :unamused: :open_mouth:

How can there be any safe seats at all - if the voters think one thing, but their preferred candidate thinks the exact opposite?

If Corbyn, for example - had backed Brexit from the very beginning, and been an effective opposition to Cameron’s late government - we’d be facing a general election by this point, with either Corbyn winning, or UKIP mopping up all the exodus of voters that didn’t quite make it across the floor…

Labour missed a chance to be on the winning side - and with it, missed their chance to actually GET that snap general election. Theresa May has no need to face one until 2020 now. And why should she?

That gives her four years to “get it done” rather than the two we’re told it will take, or the six some fearmongers reckon it will take. I reckon she’s got a good chance of pulling it off - IF she keeps all her promises, which - let’s face it - we don’t really expect much of our politicians - do we? :unamused:

The fact that MP’s have to reflect the majority view of their electorates is the definition of democracy.

The ‘safe seat’ in our case at least being a ‘safe’ ‘Conservative’ seat IE the ‘Party’ not the MP.Which as I’ve said is why the Conservative ‘Eurosceptics’ have just suddenly woke up to the fact that they are governed by their respective Party whips let alone when the whip is also in line with their Party constituency electorate vote.IE if an MP is going to rebel against the Party line they’ll need the backing of their electorate to stand a chance of pulling it off.That’s the flaw in the Eurosceptic Conservative ‘and’ UKIP plan.It’s also why we’re now facing a remain Tory agenda to fit a remain Tory electorate. :unamused: :frowning:

As for Corbyn,as Rjan has made clear,like the more Tory orientated Blairites,the Socialist side of the Labour Party was never going to go for Brexit.Because,like the Conservatives,they are ideologically opposed to the idea of the Nation State being ideologically Federalist.Also as May made clear in her coded encouragement in that regard to the remain Conservative vote today.

Meanwhile no surprise article 50 wasn’t invoked today and probably won’t be ever other than possibly in the event of the decision being taken of swapping EU for EEA.Having said that hopefully I’m wrong and we’ll get article 50 by the end of the week and the ruling out of EEA membership.

Which now just leaves the Nationalist Labour vote to do to Corbyn and Labour what the Tory Europhile vote has done to Farage,Davis,Fox and Gove and the Eurosceptic Cons and UKIP. :bulb: :wink: :smiley: The difficult bit then being turning that into seats in a parliamentary electoral system that isn’t based on PR.

Which is why,as I said,Farage having gone for a Confederal Europe,based on supremacy of the MEP’s over the Commissioners,with the national right of opt out,substitution and VETO,would be a far better option than the cluster zb we’re now lumbered with within the Europhile Federalist National parliament.If only UKIP had been a true Nationalist Party in that regard and helped Le Pen instead of turning their backs on her. :frowning:

Winseer:

Evil8Beezle:

Wiretwister:
David Davis minister for Brexit. CF will be happy at one appointment.

And what dimension have you just returned from? :open_mouth:

The 5th of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VzZSXoPA-Q

Strange how the Socialists can do the right of self determination and Nationalism when it suits them and depending on ethnicity.This could just as easily apply to Rjan’s lot and all the other zb Federalists throughout history. :bulb: :smiling_imp: :smiley:

youtube.com/watch?v=W0ltWUqu8ck

When was the last time we elected all our MPs on the basis of their views coinciding with ours?

It’s been “vote for the least worst” or “don’t vote” or “vote for the MP who has a single policy you 100% agree with” for as long as I can remember.

My local MP is a classic “hanger-on”.
There are three constituencies visible out of my back window:
Chatham & Aylesford (Crouch, off on maternity leave, non-commital regarding the referendum)
Gillingham & Rainham (Chishti, promised to prevent mobile masts being erected near schools, broke the promise, Labour turncoat)
Rochester & Strood (Tolhurst, managed to go from 13,000 votes to 23,000 votes and run over Mark Reckless who had a solid 16,000 poll)

then that rather sickening sychophantic photo bomb that was the backbench shower (including two of the above) jockeying for position outside the St Stephen gate yesterday, waiting for May to emerge, with her non-speech and no declaration of Article 50 - which is the only thing I want to hear right now. :imp:

Winseer:
When was the last time we elected all our MPs on the basis of their views coinciding with ours?

It’s been “vote for the least worst” or “don’t vote” or “vote for the MP who has a single policy you 100% agree with” for as long as I can remember.

My local MP is a classic “hanger-on”.
There are three constituencies visible out of my back window:
Chatham & Aylesford (Crouch, off on maternity leave, non-commital regarding the referendum)
Gillingham & Rainham (Chishti, promised to prevent mobile masts being erected near schools, broke the promise, Labour turncoat)
Rochester & Strood (Tolhurst, managed to go from 13,000 votes to 23,000 votes and run over Mark Reckless who had a solid 16,000 poll)

then that rather sickening sychophantic photo bomb that was the backbench shower (including two of the above) jockeying for position outside the St Stephen gate yesterday, waiting for May to emerge, with her non-speech and no declaration of Article 50 - which is the only thing I want to hear right now. :imp:

Firstly the issue of Eurosceptic v Europhile is a bit more of a difference than local issues which should be handed over to local government electoral control anyway.In which case I’d guess if our local MP doesn’t start towing May’s line then either the whips will get him de selected in favour of a remain loyalist or the electorate will replace him with a LibDim.Bearing in mind a 62% Con vote at the last election and as I said a 60/40 remain vote in the referendum he’s probably toast on the basis of the former. :bulb:

As for article 50 as I’ve said if it wasn’t invoked at 9 am on the morning of the 24th June it probably either never will be or at best we’ll be lumbered with EEA membership sometime well in the future.

On that note this seems to be consistent with what I’ve been saying.That obviously even before May was crowned as PM and Hammond second in command. :open_mouth:

The obvious question then being why did UKIP want to return ‘powers’ to a known majority Europhile National Parliament which would predictably reverse any Leave referendum vote anyway.When they could have done much more damage by staying where they were and finding allies within the EU parliament to turn it into a Confederal Europe.In which case they had the PR system and the MEP’s in place to help them in that.Which I still say will probably turn out to be a catastrophic misjudgement by Farage. :frowning:

youtube.com/watch?v=Z-t3XXJy2Yg

I agree with CF on the note that article 50 might not be invoked soon if at all.

“Theresa May, who will take office on Wednesday, has said she will not trigger article 50 before the end of the year, in order to give the British government time to work out its negotiating strategy. On Tuesday, Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, said it could take as long as six years for the UK to extricate itself from the EU”.

theguardian.com/politics/201 … tin-schulz
theguardian.com/politics/201 … ip-hammond

On Tuesday, Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, said it could take as long as six years for the UK to extricate itself from the EU".

Pitty he isn’t foreign secretary no longer

Dolph you must stop reading all this bull crap that’s in the tabloids… New government… just wait and watch the space to see what moves are gonna be made on Brexit… My own personal view is the sooner where out like the Europeans want the better

Swampey2418:

On Tuesday, Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, said it could take as long as six years for the UK to extricate itself from the EU".

Pitty he isn’t foreign secretary no longer

Dolph you must stop reading all this bull crap that’s in the tabloids… New government… just wait and watch the space to see what moves are gonna be made on Brexit… My own personal view is the sooner where out like the Europeans want the better

It’s a ‘new’ Tory government with a clear remain mandate among its electorate with a remain PM and Hammond now in a ‘more’ powerful position than before. :unamused:

6 years would be right ‘if’ he’s sending a coded message to the remainers that the Cons in the form of ‘this’ parliament won’t take us out.It would take a new Eurosceptic Labour government after the next election to do it.IE everything the Cons have done so far fits a remain agenda including all the coded Federalist messaging to their Federalist supporters.Realistically the flaws in our bs electoral system have come back to bite us big time with Farage playing into Cameron’s hands in that regard,the muppet.Or was it his loyalty to the Conservatives over rode that of to his country.Turning his back on Le Pen’s request for co operation doesn’t look good in that regard. :imp: :frowning:

As for the Europeans ‘wanting us out’.No it’s exactly the same Federalist v Nationalist argument over there.With May and the UK government now being one of the best allies that Juncker has in holding the zb pile together in its current undemocratic dictatorial Federal form.

Unless of course events prove otherwise and we get article 50 by the end of the week and the ruling out of EEA membership. :unamused: