adam277:
This is why I like supermarket work.
Takes aslong as it takes.3 deliveries in london can take 10-12 hours and no one in the office cares.
Ye it’s boring but I get to listen to plenty of audiobooks that make it bearable.
I hope you listen to the waffle drone of “English Literature Classic” rather than something more racy than “The Pearl”, “The Oyster”, or “The Bible” come to that… 
Harry Monk:
I did an agency job last week, and on a day run from Coventry I was expected to do…Bury St Edmunds.
Ipswich x 2.
Lowestoft.
Norwich.
Hunstanton.
Kings Lynn.And then back to Coventry.
I got Bury St Edmunds and the two in Ipswich off and then I turned around and went back to the yard, when I got there I was on 9:05 hours driving.
Whoever planned that wants shooting. Just out of curiosity I put them into Google maps. Even if they had used Google maps, based on a car, to work out the distances, 9hr14m, in this case, should be obvious to anyone in that office there is no hope of completing that in a shift. In fact you’d be doing well if you did it in less than 10hrs in a car!
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commonrail:
How about approaching companies direct,and asking for part time work.
When I was at Lockwoods… there was 3 or 4 retired blokes,that just covered holidays and weekends.
The problem isn’t just the shortage of part time work.3 days per week can sometimes be found.But it’s the workload expected regardless with most vacancies calling for laughable amounts of multi task/role working practices and that applies to numerous sectors even trying to find supermarket check out work.
The employers obviously know what they are doing because most of such vanacies always lead with the easier more attractive part of the job then put all the duties expected in the small print or sometimes only explain them at interview when you’ve wasted time and money attending.
In driving job terms usually along the lines of Driver required but must be willing to do numerous other types of jobs as required in most cases involving hard physical graft of one sort or another and/or silly multi drop expectations etc etc.The interesting bit being that these jobs are permanently advertised or advertised on a continuous revolving basis.So what is clear is that even younger fitter East Euro labour isn’t taking it.What’s also clear is that the labour market is being manipulated to maximise the supply of labour both in terms of a silly Retirement age regime and expecting one worker to do the job of two.Even in the case of non HGV garage work type jobs often calling for 8 am - 6 pm 6 days per week which could be job shared on the basis of 3 days on 3 days off and even those often requiring silly unnecessary other duties like yard marshalling,veleting and general labouring which could/should be seperated off and reserved for younger fitter workers.
KarlM:
Harry Monk:
I did an agency job last week, and on a day run from Coventry I was expected to do…Bury St Edmunds.
Ipswich x 2.
Lowestoft.
Norwich.
Hunstanton.
Kings Lynn.And then back to Coventry.
I got Bury St Edmunds and the two in Ipswich off and then I turned around and went back to the yard, when I got there I was on 9:05 hours driving.
Whoever planned that wants shooting. Just out of curiosity I put them into Google maps. Even if they had used Google maps, based on a car, to work out the distances, 9hr14m, in this case, should be obvious to anyone in that office there is no hope of completing that in a shift. In fact you’d be doing well if you did it in less than 10hrs in a car!
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I laughed at that one myself, but the point is someone somewhere will give it a try. Speeding, cutting off breaks and as soon as it’s done that’s proof that it can be done. After all, if the driver attempts it and gets caught by the police or VOSA he’s the one who’ll be paying hundreds in fines. If it’s not done you don’t get work with that company again and are viewed as someone who can’t do the job. I’m glad to hear though that I’m not alone in wondering what happened to the job we were all so used to doing years ago and which has now turned into a nightmare.
Grandpa:
KarlM:
Harry Monk:
I did an agency job last week, and on a day run from Coventry I was expected to do…Bury St Edmunds.
Ipswich x 2.
Lowestoft.
Norwich.
Hunstanton.
Kings Lynn.And then back to Coventry.
I got Bury St Edmunds and the two in Ipswich off and then I turned around and went back to the yard, when I got there I was on 9:05 hours driving.
Whoever planned that wants shooting. Just out of curiosity I put them into Google maps. Even if they had used Google maps, based on a car, to work out the distances, 9hr14m, in this case, should be obvious to anyone in that office there is no hope of completing that in a shift. In fact you’d be doing well if you did it in less than 10hrs in a car!
Sent from my LLD-L31 using Tapatalk
I laughed at that one myself, but the point is someone somewhere will give it a try. Speeding, cutting off breaks and as soon as it’s done that’s proof that it can be done. After all, if the driver attempts it and gets caught by the police or VOSA he’s the one who’ll be paying hundreds in fines. If it’s not done you don’t get work with that company again and are viewed as someone who can’t do the job. I’m glad to hear though that I’m not alone in wondering what happened to the job we were all so used to doing years ago and which has now turned into a nightmare.
As I’ve said the writing was on the wall long before now.Certainly within around the 6 years of me starting out in the late 1970’s being told to make sure that I didn’t carve up Feltham to Southampton for one collection with a 7.5 tonner so not back to the yard before 6 pm to keep the overtime right for everyone else when doing it.Although admittedly with hindsight own account work.I thought the workload and type on the following council driver job was a joke until I ended up on the agency for a while during a temporary layoff from night trunking.Realistically driving trucks only makes sense on the basis of maximum driving,minimum drops/loading operations and what operations there are all mechanically handled.So there you have it full or bulk load pallet distance/trunking work is the holy grail and was always so.The problem now being an even more over supplied labour market and an ever reducing amount of the above type of work because the rail freight sector wants that best quality truck work.
I think the change is a lot more recent. In the last decade you got a huge influx of foreigners who said we can do anything for three times what we get paid in our own countries and employers obviously took advantage of that. The ‘runs’ then became tailored to break neck levels and over time have now become normal. The same in the warehouses, where you barely now get an English native speaker and they all work at minimum wage, with target levels on long hour shifts.
We can all remember when a trunk meant delivery/collection, which has now turned into multi-drop and un/load yourself as normal. I often explain to agencies that I can’t do the physical labour involved and I’m almost guaranteed not to hear from then again because what was normal previously is an admission that you can’t do the add-ons which is now standard practice.
I’m looking at adverts and I’m constantly seeing sentences such as and I quote, ‘Must be comfortable with the physical nature of the role’ or ‘Ideally, you will be used to moving heavy loads’ and ‘Must be comfortable working on your own’ which translated means if a one ton pallet spills you pick it up on your own because there will be no one at the delivery point to help you. As long as there are people who will do these jobs the workload will continue.
Grandpa:
I think the change is a lot more recent. In the last decade you got a huge influx of foreigners who said we can do anything for three times what we get paid in our own countries and employers obviously took advantage of that. The ‘runs’ then became tailored to break neck levels and over time have now become normal. The same in the warehouses, where you barely now get an English native speaker and they all work at minimum wage, with target levels on long hour shifts.We can all remember when a trunk meant delivery/collection, which has now turned into multi-drop and un/load yourself as normal. I often explain to agencies that I can’t do the physical labour involved and I’m almost guaranteed not to hear from then again because what was normal previously is an admission that you can’t do the add-ons which is now standard practice.
I’m looking at adverts and I’m constantly seeing sentences such as and I quote, ‘Must be comfortable with the physical nature of the role’ or ‘Ideally, you will be used to moving heavy loads’ and ‘Must be comfortable working on your own’ which translated means if a one ton pallet spills you pick it up on your own because there will be no one at the delivery point to help you. As long as there are people who will do these jobs the workload will continue.
Trust me my Grandfather would have been more familiar with that environment in the 1920’s than obviously us.It’s what happens when the road transport industry is relegated to being a third rate local delivery and collection service.In which the aim of using HGV’s is no longer moving large amounts of freight over long distances as economically as possible.Because those economies of scale have been deliberately defeated in terms of fuel taxation for political reasons.Now it’s all about how many local deliveries/collections can we do with one driver and one vehicle.Or the false economy of hub systems.In all cases the non driving aspects of the job increase exponentially because the political climate doesn’t want to see full or at least bulk truck loads of freight being moved from one end of the country to another or at least any considerable distance.Ironically I really did feel like the last of a dying breed in that regard doing one of the last ever real distance Feltham-Luton-Dewsbury-Luton-Feltham direct trunk run within my employers’ operations which just involved trailer and/or demount box swapping.At which point fate decided that was the end of it all for me so at least I went out on a high note.
Far better than the hub system work which most of the job had degenerated into.As I found to my shock almost over night with the end of the Feltham-Charnock Richard Scottish changeover which I’d been doing for around 5 years previously to that and then put on Feltham to Nuneaton hub run.2 hours each way and the rest of the shift working in the hub loading and tipping during the resulting transhipment operation.All handball. 
johnny foreigner seems to be working long hours a real grafter by UK standards but look closer its rarely the case . hes job sharing and in his time off engaged in theft or several fiddles to bulk up the money. i heard about one who moonlighted doing washing machine maintenance in local laundrette when he was taking the back off to check on the belts some had a bit of metal inside to deflect a certain amount of coins into the casing for him to take home later
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Foreigners??
My lot have more than their fair share of heroes, yes men, and clowns, the type who have no time to stop for a ■■■■, look upon hours limits as targets, and regularly leaving at stupid ■■■■ o’ clock, and kipping in the yard on a Sunday afternoon to leave at midnight for no extra pay …all of them BRIT born and bred. 
corij:
johnny foreigner seems to be working long hours a real grafter by UK standards but look closer its rarely the case . hes job sharing and in his time off engaged in theft or several fiddles to bulk up the money. i heard about one who moonlighted doing washing machine maintenance in local laundrette when he was taking the back off to check on the belts some had a bit of metal inside to deflect a certain amount of coins into the casing for him to take home later
Thats rather a sweeping statement, Xenophobic in the extreme, I work with people from all over Europe and beyond and almost all with very few exceptions a decent honest and honourable men who have come to this country settled bought property and have started a family.
If I ran my own trucks I would employ a good many of them, you give them the keys the paperwork and thats the last you see or hear of them until the job is complete.
On the other hand you have the home grown talent who I personally would not employ to sweep the yard and empty the bins, I often work in the office covering holidays and so on and nearly all the idiotic stupidity and riduculous levels of wet nursing goes to drivers with English as there first language (and most of these are unable to speak correctly) some of the calls I take are frankly quite painful and pitiful to listen to.
Sad but true.
Grandpa:
I think the change is a lot more recent. In the last decade you got a huge influx of foreigners who said we can do anything for three times what we get paid in our own countries and employers obviously took advantage of that. The ‘runs’ then became tailored to break neck levels and over time have now become normal. The same in the warehouses, where you barely now get an English native speaker and they all work at minimum wage, with target levels on long hour shifts.We can all remember when a trunk meant delivery/collection, which has now turned into multi-drop and un/load yourself as normal. I often explain to agencies that I can’t do the physical labour involved and I’m almost guaranteed not to hear from then again because what was normal previously is an admission that you can’t do the add-ons which is now standard practice.
I’m looking at adverts and I’m constantly seeing sentences such as and I quote, ‘Must be comfortable with the physical nature of the role’ or ‘Ideally, you will be used to moving heavy loads’ and ‘Must be comfortable working on your own’ which translated means if a one ton pallet spills you pick it up on your own because there will be no one at the delivery point to help you. As long as there are people who will do these jobs the workload will continue.
I see no evidence of the workload increasing because of the influx or foreign drivers, hire and reward is extremely competitive the only way is to run day and night with the lowest possible cost, the only cost under the control of the haulier is wages, as for minimum wage I reckon few if any warehouse or drivers are being paid that little.
The issue is imbecilic drivers who allow themselves to be treated like slaves and believe me the vast majority are British nationals.
mike68:
Grandpa:
I think the change is a lot more recent. In the last decade you got a huge influx of foreigners who said we can do anything for three times what we get paid in our own countries and employers obviously took advantage of that. The ‘runs’ then became tailored to break neck levels and over time have now become normal. The same in the warehouses, where you barely now get an English native speaker and they all work at minimum wage, with target levels on long hour shifts.We can all remember when a trunk meant delivery/collection, which has now turned into multi-drop and un/load yourself as normal. I often explain to agencies that I can’t do the physical labour involved and I’m almost guaranteed not to hear from then again because what was normal previously is an admission that you can’t do the add-ons which is now standard practice.
I’m looking at adverts and I’m constantly seeing sentences such as and I quote, ‘Must be comfortable with the physical nature of the role’ or ‘Ideally, you will be used to moving heavy loads’ and ‘Must be comfortable working on your own’ which translated means if a one ton pallet spills you pick it up on your own because there will be no one at the delivery point to help you. As long as there are people who will do these jobs the workload will continue.
I see no evidence of the workload increasing because of the influx or foreign drivers, hire and reward is extremely competitive the only way is to run day and night with the lowest possible cost, the only cost under the control of the haulier is wages, as for minimum wage I reckon few if any warehouse or drivers are being paid that little.
The issue is imbecilic drivers who allow themselves to be treated like slaves and believe me the vast majority are British nationals.
There are fools driving trucks. True.
.
But if employers were saints, that wouldn’t be such a problem.
A fool who isn’t taken advantage of, does the industry no harm. Weak laws and weak enforcement means scoundrels take advantage of fools, and turn a profit.
I won’t support an idiot being given a responsible job, but those who take advantage of idiots are more culpable, and those who should prevent this, and don’t, are even more guilty.
We can’t always blame the victim for the crime can we?
.
Big business, trying to cut costs, and allowed free rein by an anti regulation bunch of law makers*, is worth some blame surely?
.
The workload we now have and which is now the norm wasn’t happening even 15 years ago. Our £12ph is worth £30ph in their home countries to the East European who came en masse. It happened in the warehouses and before that the Polish plumbers who undercut. The East Europeans weren’t refugees, they were economic migrants.
The people who came told the companies they could do the three runs we took nine hours to do in seven hours and un/load themselves. They worked themselves ragged and the companies added another run and another … Gradually the workload became too much for anyone and so we now have a workload that no one can do and why there are certain companies that are short of drivers because no one can do the workload they now take for granted.
There’s nothing xenophobic about it, the UK let in economic migrants and they undercut the native workforce. Go to any warehouse, any service station, any transport office … you can see it for yourselves. We’d do the same. If another company offered us £30ph we’d all do it and let them pile it on, but it backfired in that now we have shifts that no one wants to do and the companies are left scratching their heads and wondering why.
Did Palletways on nights for years. It’s the most awful place to go. Got banned about 4 times over the course of 6 years for various misdemeanors. I would rather go on the dole than ever step foot in that place again. Lorry drivers are scum down there.
Grandpa:
The workload we now have and which is now the norm wasn’t happening even 15 years ago. Our £12ph is worth £30ph in their home countries to the East European who came en masse. It happened in the warehouses and before that the Polish plumbers who undercut. The East Europeans weren’t refugees, they were economic migrants.The people who came told the companies they could do the three runs we took nine hours to do in seven hours and un/load themselves. They worked themselves ragged and the companies added another run and another … Gradually the workload became too much for anyone and so we now have a workload that no one can do and why there are certain companies that are short of drivers because no one can do the workload they now take for granted.
There’s nothing xenophobic about it, the UK let in economic migrants and they undercut the native workforce. Go to any warehouse, any service station, any transport office … you can see it for yourselves. We’d do the same. If another company offered us £30ph we’d all do it and let them pile it on, but it backfired in that now we have shifts that no one wants to do and the companies are left scratching their heads and wondering why.
“Undercut the native workforce”?
Really?
I’ve never heard of anyone saying
“Please.
I want less pay, for more work*”.
.
If some-one legitimate is trying to “get an in” that wouldn’t last long.
An illegal immigrant, knowingly exploited by a bent employer, yes. A legit foreign worker? Why would they?
I dunno if I’m being a näif?
Any evidence?
.
*Unless a blinged up Scannie was on offer, anyhow.
No PPE kit and you’re banned from many sites. What about the strained wrists, shoulders and back? No H&S there. I met an older guy in Palletways last week that was on the verge of dumping his truck there and getting his wife to come and meet him to take him home. All that isn’t unusual and didn’t just happen by magic overnight. Look at some of the runs people have posted here because that wasn’t happening years ago either. The companies got greedy because they knew they had a compliant workforce that would allow it and as I was told not long ago when presented with an impossible run, ‘if you won’t do it I’ll get someone else who will.’ I didn’t and I’ve no doubt he did.
ArcticMonkey:
Did Palletways on nights for years. It’s the most awful place to go. Got banned about 4 times over the course of 6 years for various misdemeanors. I would rather go on the dole than ever step foot in that place again. Lorry drivers are scum down there.
For years? Good God, you deserve a medal! 
I think it’s just such a dreadful place that it makes drivers angry and stressed. I mean, the first time I went there the first thing I noticed is that no one smiled. Everyone was like, get me out of here quick. There’s just a sort of nasty and evil presence about the place and for those that get offered a run there, don’t do it.
Franglais:
Grandpa:
The workload we now have and which is now the norm wasn’t happening even 15 years ago. Our £12ph is worth £30ph in their home countries to the East European who came en masse. It happened in the warehouses and before that the Polish plumbers who undercut. The East Europeans weren’t refugees, they were economic migrants.The people who came told the companies they could do the three runs we took nine hours to do in seven hours and un/load themselves. They worked themselves ragged and the companies added another run and another … Gradually the workload became too much for anyone and so we now have a workload that no one can do and why there are certain companies that are short of drivers because no one can do the workload they now take for granted.
There’s nothing xenophobic about it, the UK let in economic migrants and they undercut the native workforce. Go to any warehouse, any service station, any transport office … you can see it for yourselves. We’d do the same. If another company offered us £30ph we’d all do it and let them pile it on, but it backfired in that now we have shifts that no one wants to do and the companies are left scratching their heads and wondering why.
“Undercut the native workforce”?
Really?
I’ve never heard of anyone saying
“Please.
I want less pay, for more work*”.
.
If some-one legitimate is trying to “get an in” that wouldn’t last long.
An illegal immigrant, knowingly exploited by a bent employer, yes. A legit foreign worker? Why would they?
I dunno if I’m being a näif?
Any evidence?.
*Unless a blinged up Scannie was on offer, anyhow.
I love this myth that all foreign drivers who work for UK firms are on a less rate than the Brit drivers. 
When the boot was on the other foot in the 80s and 90s and the Brits were chasing the Guilder, I seem to remember we got the same rate as the Dutch, why would anybody work for less than anybody else doing the same job ffs.
Grandpa:
The workload we now have and which is now the norm wasn’t happening even 15 years ago. Our £12ph is worth £30ph in their home countries to the East European who came en masse. It happened in the warehouses and before that the Polish plumbers who undercut. The East Europeans weren’t refugees, they were economic migrants.The people who came told the companies they could do the three runs we took nine hours to do in seven hours and un/load themselves. They worked themselves ragged and the companies added another run and another … Gradually the workload became too much for anyone and so we now have a workload that no one can do and why there are certain companies that are short of drivers because no one can do the workload they now take for granted.
There’s nothing xenophobic about it, the UK let in economic migrants and they undercut the native workforce. Go to any warehouse, any service station, any transport office … you can see it for yourselves. We’d do the same. If another company offered us £30ph we’d all do it and let them pile it on, but it backfired in that now we have shifts that no one wants to do and the companies are left scratching their heads and wondering why.
+1
robroy:
Franglais:
Grandpa:
The workload we now have and which is now the norm wasn’t happening even 15 years ago. Our £12ph is worth £30ph in their home countries to the East European who came en masse. It happened in the warehouses and before that the Polish plumbers who undercut. The East Europeans weren’t refugees, they were economic migrants.The people who came told the companies they could do the three runs we took nine hours to do in seven hours and un/load themselves. They worked themselves ragged and the companies added another run and another … Gradually the workload became too much for anyone and so we now have a workload that no one can do and why there are certain companies that are short of drivers because no one can do the workload they now take for granted.
There’s nothing xenophobic about it, the UK let in economic migrants and they undercut the native workforce. Go to any warehouse, any service station, any transport office … you can see it for yourselves. We’d do the same. If another company offered us £30ph we’d all do it and let them pile it on, but it backfired in that now we have shifts that no one wants to do and the companies are left scratching their heads and wondering why.
“Undercut the native workforce”?
Really?
I’ve never heard of anyone saying
“Please.
I want less pay, for more work*”.
.
If some-one legitimate is trying to “get an in” that wouldn’t last long.
An illegal immigrant, knowingly exploited by a bent employer, yes. A legit foreign worker? Why would they?
I dunno if I’m being a näif?
Any evidence?.
I love this myth that all foreign drivers who work for UK firms are on a less rate than the Brit drivers.
When the boot was on the other foot in the 80s and 90s and the Brits were chasing the Guilder, I seem to remember we got the same rate as the Dutch, why would anybody work for less than anybody else doing the same job ffs.
No one has said that East European or illegal drivers are on less than the native workforce, but what has been said is that our rate of pay is beyond their wildest dreams and why they came. Talk to them and they’ll tell you it’s far beyond what they’ve ever earned. We can all wonder where it went wrong and the job became about short term gain and not long term sticking at it. If you introduce a low paid workforce into the economy what did you expect to happen? It’s now got so bad that even they won’t do it anymore and the vacancies now aren’t being filled.