I think the problem is, is that when people hear that the police have charged someone with Careless when they swig from a bottle of water or take a bite from an apple at the lights but then effectively take no action against this bloke who crashed, then in the public’s eye they do treat their own differently.
Look at the Menezes case on the Underground - they blew that bloke’s brains out in cold blood and all there was was a health and safety prosecution Anyone else and rightly it would hve been murder. With the greatest respect they missed with some of the shots too! That whole episode was one of incompetence.
The public want a fair Police who do catch the murderers and rapists but also who don’t think they themselves are above the law. Whilst this crash was a bit careless, in the publics eye they need to up their game before the public will learn to respect them again.
Worst 999 drivers on the road: Ambulance Service
The best: Fire brigade
(IMHO )
The question for me is: would we prosecute a member of the public for a similar offence?
Errmmm - yes?
Only if it’s in the public interest. Wasn’t there a squaddie who fell asleep at the wheel on the M11 on one of those police programs? Been on excercise all weekend, drove home, dozed off, totalled his car, closed the M11 and ended up in hospital… no prosecution.
I also know of several guys I used to know through night trunking who ‘swerved to miss a fox’ and never got prosecuted. So to say they prosecute everytime is not entirely true.
If we can ‘get away with it’ now and then, why can’t they? What about the traffic officer in Portsmouth who was prosecuted for dangerous driving for pursuing some scrote? He was charged and went to court for basically doing what he was paid and trained for.
While I’m by no means saying the police are angels, I’m also not going to bash the police just for the sake of bashing them, as some on here seem to do.
Then again you have the “specially trained” coppers who can still drive at 140 + mph ignoring speed limits.
My own special training to drive a lorry taught me about speed limits.
It does tend to go against the grain when a lorry driver gets done at 45mph in the name of safety
Wheel Nut sometimes officers have to go at that speed to catch up with a vehicle in front. So your telling me that officers should respond to a incident without breaking any speed limits? you will soon me moaning about how long it took them to get to you next.
Due to it being the Police people want heads to be cut off. What is the difference between this driver to a lorry driver? - Nothing as they both [zb] and ■■■■ the same and both make mistakes
appear a second’s inattentiveness on behalf of the officer through fatigue
Was 04:45am which shows it was a night shift. You cannot tell me that no driver on thie forum never been tired whilst doing there job?
Two Months ago, one of my colleagues finished work at 00:30 after a nine hour shift. as he was negotiating the roundabout just outside the depot, an unmarked police car overtook him and cut across to exit the roundabout, in the process sideswiped my colleagues car and wrote it off. The police prounounced the blame to be 50/50. Even though the officer had been on duty fourteen hours. My colleague only had third party fire and theft insurance so his insurance company weren’t interested in arguing the toss, so my mate was without a car and had to buy another one.
Not only that, the police went through his car with a fine tooth comb to try and shift the blame onto him.
Anyone who thinks we’re not living in a police state, think again.
You telling me you have never done a 15 hour day?
Mick Blue light
You know very well which case is being discussed, the case where the plod thought he would roadtest a new Vauxhall to see if it went very fast, no chase involved, no blue lights or not even under instruction.
And Derf, you really are plucking at straws sticking up for these officers, they are highly trained and know everything, yet they still manage to clean up a few metal posts, which one hour later could have been a bus queue of people, because they were driving tired.
Put the size 11 on the other foot for a minute and think what you have said on this forum. Should a copper have been driving tired? or was he just lying to cover up for driving too fast?
Unfortunately you cannot compare like with like. Where as professional drivers have rigid working hours that need to be adhered to, the police do not have that luxury. For example suppose this officer was on duty for a 10 hour shift, he arrests someone half an hour before he’s due to knock off, He is then (depending on time of day and day of the week) possibly going to be ■■■■■■■ in custody for another 3 hours booking in and processing his prisoner, then doing all the relevant paperwork. He may then have to drive back to his home station if it’s not one with a custody suite.
It has been stated on several posts on this forum that the police are useless and they never turn up when phoned about a burglary in progress or someone nicking diesel etc, if you are suggesting that if they’re tired towards the end of long shift they shouldn’t carry on to other outstanding jobs, you can’t expect them to turn up!
While i’m not condoning driving while tired, I think that for reasons stated in my earlier posts, this officer hasn’t been treated anymore lieniently than some HGV drivers I know (including myself).
I wrote my Mondeo off in 2000, was doing the speed limit on a B road and hit an unseen flooded section of road, aquaplaned, big accident and rolled several times flattened the car badly, no injury my myself or GF at the time, no witness to the accident as it was 01:30 in the middle of nowhere…police came and charged me with Dangerous Driving after the event later reduced after a plea bargain to Driving Without Due Care…fffin corrupt ankers…double standards are a fact of life when it comes to joe public vs Mr Plod i’m afraid.
AHT:
You also said that LGV licence holders would have points put on there licence we both no thats not true just from people on this forum who have had incidents and not been awarded any points
And we also will know of colleagues who have been done.
And as a vocational license holder, any misdemeaner in your private vehicle in your own time can still be treated to the severity as if you were in your LGV. Example mobile phone law.
And I think it is the perceived in-equity that is getting everyones back up. the fact that the conclusions to the investigation werent released, makes it look like there is something to hide, instead of fronting up.
it is a culture rife in all civil service/local authority institutions.
Derf:
While i’m not condoning driving while tired, I think that for reasons stated in my earlier posts, this officer hasn’t been treated anymore lieniently than some HGV drivers I know (including myself).
And thats a good thing, but when will the Police understand that just coming out at the time, of what would obviously be an incident of intrest to the public,( and I would say in the public intrest, after all police being fit to work is of ntrest to all of us, and excessive hours will hit retention and recruitment) and informing us of the actions to be taken and reasons why, would have made it all look just well less smelly, for want of a better description.
And thats not to ■■■■ the Police, its just to tell them to get their heads out of their own self-righteous backsides
I have not read all the posts on this thread in detail so apologise if someone else has made the same point. I consider myself to be a mostly law abiding citizen, everybody errs sometimes and nobody likes getting caught. I cannot imagine living in a society without a police force to enforce some form of order, otherwise everybody lives by, and attempts to enforce, their own morals(or lack of) on others.The Krays become the guardians of the public, or the mafia, no thanks.
The police can be arrogant and sometimes corrupt, they are human, but dealing with scrotes most of the time must have an effect on the way they deal with the rest of us unfortunately.
As a Police driver,we are not above the law and believe me,if you break the law,get caught speeding in a Police car when not attending an emergency call,then you are in serious trouble!
A colleague had a bump on the motorway,whilst driving a marked car,and was charged with careless driving.
As a Police driver,we are not above the law and believe me,if you break the law,get caught speeding in a Police car when not attending an emergency call,then you are in serious trouble!
A colleague had a bump on the motorway,whilst driving a marked car,and was charged with careless driving.
Forget the rumours,these are the facts.
Obviously the press are going to pick out the one time when they think the driver possibly gets slightly more lenient treetment for reasons that arent known to then then blow it out of all proportion, just like when a lorr y sheds a 40 tonne load
Or like the reports that always blame any accident involving a lorry whitch in reality can be a transit tipper on a tired driver who h as been driving for the last god knows how many hours
Derf:
Unfortunately you cannot compare like with like. Where as professional drivers have rigid working hours that need to be adhered to, the police do not have that luxury. For example suppose this officer was on duty for a 10 hour shift, he arrests someone half an hour before he’s due to knock off, He is then (depending on time of day and day of the week) possibly going to be ■■■■■■■ in custody for another 3 hours booking in and processing his prisoner, then doing all the relevant paperwork. He may then have to drive back to his home station if it’s not one with a custody suite.
It has been stated on several posts on this forum that the police are useless and they never turn up when phoned about a burglary in progress or someone nicking diesel etc, if you are suggesting that if they’re tired towards the end of long shift they shouldn’t carry on to other outstanding jobs, you can’t expect them to turn up!
While i’m not condoning driving while tired, I think that for reasons stated in my earlier posts, this officer hasn’t been treated anymore lieniently than some HGV drivers I know (including myself).
Load ov ■■■■■■■■,
I think you have a son or daughter in the police force.
If your tired your tired. What’s more important killing someone on the next bend, or going 1 man down when you turn up mob handed.
Agreed that if you’re tired, you’re tired, but how would you feel if some scrote bag that had done something against you your familyor your property got off on a legal technicality because of continuity issues due to the arresting officer presenting the offender at custody, then not continuing through the custody proceedure/investigation because it was the end of his shift and went home? I’m sure you’d be on here telling all that will listen what a ■■■■ poor service the police provide.
An offender has to be charged or released withing 24 hours of time of arrest (not arrival time at custody), in some instances - particulary a rural constabulary like norfolk - it can take up to an hour to get to a custody suite, then depending on the time of day, 2 hours before being in front of the custody Sgt to book the prisoner in. All the while the PACE clock is ticking. The arresting officer is usually in charge of the investigation and the onus is on him to supervise the collection of evidence (statements, interviews etc) and present it to the CPS. This is in the main done sometime between the offender being detained and interviewed. If there is no evidence to present (because the officer had to knock off) the offender walks.
Now, take my point that the officer could be getting towards the end of s busy and tiring shift when he commences this due to arresting someone, he’s going to be totally knackered by the time he heads back to his home station. Should he perhaps call someone else up to pick him up? Probably, but he’s a human being as well as being a police officer and I’d bet anything we’ve all on here driven home when absolutely shattered.
The problem here seems to be not necarssarily what went on with regards to what happened and the subsequent investigation, but what was perceived to have gone on.
just because people are not in full grasp of all the facts, doesn’t mean something underhand went on
Hence my statement ‘You can’t compare like with like’
Agreed that if you’re tired, you’re tired, but how would you feel if some scrote bag that had done something against you your familyor your property got off on a legal technicality because of continuity issues due to the arresting officer presenting the offender at custody, then not continuing through the custody proceedure/investigation because it was the end of his shift and went home? I’m sure you’d be on here telling all that will listen what a ■■■■ poor service the police provide.
An offender has to be charged or released withing 24 hours of time of arrest (not arrival time at custody), in some instances - particulary a rural constabulary like norfolk - it can take up to an hour to get to a custody suite, then depending on the time of day, 2 hours before being in front of the custody Sgt to book the prisoner in. All the while the PACE clock is ticking. The arresting officer is usually in charge of the investigation and the onus is on him to supervise the collection of evidence (statements, interviews etc) and present it to the CPS. This is in the main done sometime between the offender being detained and interviewed. If there is no evidence to present (because the officer had to knock off) the offender walks.
Now, take my point that the officer could be getting towards the end of s busy and tiring shift when he commences this due to arresting someone, he’s going to be totally knackered by the time he heads back to his home station. Should he perhaps call someone else up to pick him up? Probably, but he’s a human being as well as being a police officer and I’d bet anything we’ve all on here driven home when absolutely shattered.
The problem here seems to be not necarssarily what went on with regards to what happened and the subsequent investigation, but what was perceived to have gone on.
just because people are not in full grasp of all the facts, doesn’t mean something underhand went on
Hence my statement ‘You can’t compare like with like’
24 hours charge or release is crap. Just needs an inspector to authorise your detention for longer. After that it’s a magistrate.
Most people who are arrested before a shift change are dealt with by the next shift.
Agreed that if you’re tired, you’re tired, but how would you feel if some scrote bag that had done something against you your familyor your property got off on a legal technicality because of continuity issues due to the arresting officer presenting the offender at custody, then not continuing through the custody proceedure/investigation because it was the end of his shift and went home? I’m sure you’d be on here telling all that will listen what a ■■■■ poor service the police provide.
An offender has to be charged or released withing 24 hours of time of arrest (not arrival time at custody), in some instances - particulary a rural constabulary like norfolk - it can take up to an hour to get to a custody suite, then depending on the time of day, 2 hours before being in front of the custody Sgt to book the prisoner in. All the while the PACE clock is ticking. The arresting officer is usually in charge of the investigation and the onus is on him to supervise the collection of evidence (statements, interviews etc) and present it to the CPS. This is in the main done sometime between the offender being detained and interviewed. If there is no evidence to present (because the officer had to knock off) the offender walks.
Now, take my point that the officer could be getting towards the end of s busy and tiring shift when he commences this due to arresting someone, he’s going to be totally knackered by the time he heads back to his home station. Should he perhaps call someone else up to pick him up? Probably, but he’s a human being as well as being a police officer and I’d bet anything we’ve all on here driven home when absolutely shattered.
The problem here seems to be not necarssarily what went on with regards to what happened and the subsequent investigation, but what was perceived to have gone on.
just because people are not in full grasp of all the facts, doesn’t mean something underhand went on
Hence my statement ‘You can’t compare like with like’
The fact that you mention jargon such as “PACE” and “custody suite” suggests to me that you have some connection to the justice system.
And also I hate the word “offender” - surely the correct term is criminal■■?
Anyone else and rightly it would hve been murder. With the greatest respect they missed with some of the shots too! That whole episode was one of incompetence.
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