Sure you know rightly HMRC would crack down on the tax free expenses.
Once the likes of CW Business Logistics/Gladstone and all those others on FB and trucking mags starting claiming ££££££s on “pie in the sky” expenses on behalf of drivers!!!@ [emoji52]
Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk
muckles:
I thought this had been settled a year or so ago, and evidence didn’t have to be receipts, but could be evidence that the driver had a night out, using things like time sheets, parking receipts or tracking information.
If they’ve moved the goalposts drivers will need to put in claims for bedding and washing the bedding, cooking equipment, eating utensils, meals, drinks, receipts for shopping before going away, etc as I believe it’s expenses on things like this that night out money was supposed to cover.I can see SEDriver point that it would stop drivers taking their night out money as part of their pay, but I think it will cause everybody far more issues not only in extra paperwork, but also in disagreements between drivers and accounts departments about what can be claimed for and what can’t, also expenses are open to abuse.
No ill just increase rates to compensate
anon84679660:
Harry Monk:
I’m guessing the Government must be pretty hard-up if they want to start taxing us whenever we eat a meal.yep, Brexit , mate, what else did you expect?
money needs to be found somewhere, to bribe Nissan to stay here, cut corporate taxes to stop others leaving,and others to follow.
Someone has to pay for it all, and who is it gonna be, yep, you guess it right, the common people, the Brexiters, but after all, common people, new what they were doing when they voted for Brexit, didn’t they?
It has nothing to do with brexit, But it does have to do with all the pish takers that enter this country and are never deported and those that they import masquerading as children & multiply those numbers several times as they have a right to a family life, that is what is costing this country in benefits, Health care, social housing , ect ect but no one will say anything about that will they ?
The Sooner we leave the EU the better!!!
tommy t:
The Sooner we leave the EU the better!!!
Blimey tommy have you heard the news.
Carryfast:
tommy t:
The Sooner we leave the EU the better!!!
Blimey tommy have you heard the news.
What about that crap re the ART50? that doesn’t stop us leaving the EU directly, But we are lumbered with Some Day May-be who is insisting on us keeping single market access , which we will not get without Free movement and would also likely mean EEA , which isn’t brexit , So there is no point in Artilce 50 joke , apart from her purposely delaying leaving the EU for upto 2 yrs for no benefit
I see Farage has vowed to return as leader if we haven’t left by 2019, though that is far too long
So, whilst multi billion pound companies like Google and apple pay a tax rate of 0.05% the government is cracking down on tax perks of people earning 30k.
Makes you proud to be English doesn’t it.
robroy:
anon84679660:
Harry Monk:
I’m guessing the Government must be pretty hard-up if they want to start taxing us whenever we eat a meal.yep, Brexit , mate, what else did you expect?
money needs to be found somewhere, to bribe Nissan to stay here, cut corporate taxes to stop others leaving,and others to follow.
Someone has to pay for it all, and who is it gonna be, yep, you guess it right, the common people, the Brexiters, but after all, common people, new what they were doing when they voted for Brexit, didn’t they?What ■■■■■■■■.
When in doubt blame Brexit.
Yep, it’s the new Thatcher.
What about the few drivers left who do euro work? I regularly used to buy snacks from street vendors in various cities across Europe, you try getting receipts from them.
OVLOV JAY:
So if you can’t prove a legitimate expense incurred, you have to pay tax on it. I take it all the cook in the cab on industrial estate drivers are going to be hit the hardest then
Still got to buy food to cook, cooker to cook it on, gas to power it, plates to eat off…etc etc…
All still an ‘expense’.
DonutUK:
OVLOV JAY:
So if you can’t prove a legitimate expense incurred, you have to pay tax on it. I take it all the cook in the cab on industrial estate drivers are going to be hit the hardest thenStill got to buy food to cook, cooker to cook it on, gas to power it, plates to eat off…etc etc…
All still an ‘expense’.
I agree, but you know what hmrc are like for splitting hairs. You’ll probably have to do your shopping on the day of a night out to prove you’re eating at work, or they’ll say that shopping on a Saturday/Sunday was for home
anon84679660:
Harry Monk:
I’m guessing the Government must be pretty hard-up if they want to start taxing us whenever we eat a meal.yep, Brexit , mate, what else did you expect?
money needs to be found somewhere, to bribe Nissan to stay here, cut corporate taxes to stop others leaving,and others to follow.
Someone has to pay for it all, and who is it gonna be, yep, you guess it right, the common people, the Brexiters, but after all, common people, new what they were doing when they voted for Brexit, didn’t they?
How can it be anything to do with Brexit when it was introduced (in the 2016 Finance Bill) four months before the Referendum…?
Sent using smoke and mirrors
Just scanned through this tread, but some thoughts occurred to me.
Why do so many drivers whether they are day drivers or occasional night out drivers or full trampers, get so agitated by how others choose to think about their night out allowances.
Why are some drivers so disparaging about those trampers who wish to self cater many nights, whilst parked in Industrial estates, especially if the alternative is a Maccy D whilst being kept awake all night on an MSA.
To be honest if I had to pay Tax of £40 of My average £120 a week tax free allowances(though after adjustsment for legitimate expenses, the tax would probably be nearer £20 a week) it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
If this was to go ahead, and the payment for nighting out then became recognised as a taxable compensation for being away from home, from which you could assign tax deductable reimbursements for expenses, then wouldn’t it all be a lot more above board. Would help greatly anyone applying for a mortgage, as a taxable compensation would qualify as income 
Harry Monk:
SEDriver:
I agree with the change to be fair.“Night Out Allowances” have never been part of a wage, they are to cover the costs of food and showers etc. whilst working away from home.
That’s my point. Why should a driver have to pay tax on having a shower, or submit a receipt so that some stuffed shirt can check that he did actually have a shower? If a driver has to pay more for his food on the road than he would do if he ate a home-cooked meal then why should he be taxed on that?
This is a serious attack by the Government on terms which have existed since time immemorial, and we shouldn’t just roll over and allow our tummies to be tickled.
Your tummies have been tickled for a very long time now and will be for a long time to come
Basically it doesn’t matter if you eat in a Michelin five star restaurant or eat a pot noodle, if HMRC start taxing night-out money then that’s an instant £80-£100 a month income cut for those who are away 4-5 nights a week. There has always been a historical agreement between HMRC and lorry drivers that subsistence can be claimed up to an agreed amount without producing receipts, and there seems no real reason why this should change, to our detriment and HMRC’s gain.
It would be interesting Harry to see exactly how much shafting lorry drivers are willing to put up with.
Maybe about time a ’ few ’ wagons started strategically breaking down at crucial junctions…
Harry Monk:
Basically it doesn’t matter if you eat in a Michelin five star restaurant or eat a pot noodle, if HMRC start taxing night-out money then that’s an instant £80-£100 a month income cut for those who are away 4-5 nights a week. There has always been a historical agreement between HMRC and lorry drivers that subsistence can be claimed up to an agreed amount without producing receipts, and there seems no real reason why this should change, to our detriment and HMRC’s gain.
Reading the link at the start of the thread and reading what other industries have had to do to keep their tax free allowances, it seems companies will have yet another load of admin, which is a bit rich coming from a Government that said it would reduce the administration burden on businesses.
- Hauliers will be required to get an agreement from HMRC to make this payment tax and National Insurance free
- Hauliers will also be required to carry out random checks with their drivers that expense is being incurred. The RHA advises members to get clarity in writing from their local office what those checks should be, to avoid putting themselves at risk.
Looks like the Horse Racing industry has already had to address this.
The employer checks a random 10% of all claims. Checks to be carried out independently (by someone other than the employee incurring them) and authorised and vouched for by reference to employee diaries, work schedules and time sheets to confirm that employees were travelling in the performance of their duties on the date of the claim and receipts to demonstrate that employees had in fact incurred costs whilst travelling.
Employees should be aware that they might be subject to review at any time and not be given notice that any particular claim will be subject to review.Employees are required to retain receipts for a period of 12 months from the date of expenditure.
Just seems that the HMRC are trying to make the system very complex, maybe hoping that companies won’t bother.
I work on an expenses system, so I keep receipts for as much as I can, I claim for some un-receipted expenses, such as coffees and showers if I have to pay for them.
But to be honest if it’s what drivers will have to do to get their money back, then the I think the HMRC is being very shortsighted and petty as claiming expenses are far more open to abuse than the present system.
muckles:
I work on an expenses system, so I keep receipts for as much as I can, I claim for some un-receipted expenses, such as coffees and showers if I have to pay for them.
But to be honest if it’s what drivers will have to do to get their money back, then the I think the HMRC is being very shortsighted and petty as claiming expenses are far more open to abuse than the present system.
The HMRC are just going to be snowed under with expenses claims. I for 1 will start to claim for washing my uniform which I am entitled to do, but have never bothered with, and suspect that there are quite a number of other ancillary expenses incurred, that I at present just pay for without bothering with claiming.
As I often self cater, I will be claiming for washing up liquid cling film freezer bags, tea bags and coffee and coffee filter papers and bottled water. All my personal washing gear, and for laundering bath and face towels and flannels. The new head for My electric tooth brush cost £3, that’s once a month + 2 AA batteries to power it. As I live in 2 places, the list of items that I have to have 2 sets of is endless even though the truck is mobile.
I reckon I could claim the cost of My Internet Dongle at £15 a month, as I pay for BT internet at home, would also try for the cost of my mobile phone contract, as its main purpose is to talk to the Mrs whilst away from home due to my employment. oh my, what a can of worms to be opened 
One of the arguments the MP’s used for their expenses, was that they needed double of all the day to day essentials for living, because they had to live in 2 places, well that what we do
As I said earlier, I reckon that I could half any tax burden set against night out money
This looks like a seriously worrying change for drivers who treat their night out payment as part of their salary package. I contacted HMRC to get the details so that I could make sense of it - so here’s the exact words they sent me:
"Changes in legislation introduced in April 2016 mean that employers who pay or reimburse employee’s employment expenses do not need report these payments to HMRC. HMRC has agreed with the Road Haulage Association (RHA) that employers within the haulage industry can continue with their current practices for the payment of overnight allowances but must apply the new rules with effect from April 2017 at the latest.
"Under the new rules, where employees within the haulage industry travel, including spending the night away from home as the result of a business journey, and incur an expense in doing so, employers can either:
(i) pay or reimburse employees expenses using the published benchmark scale rates. See the HMRC Employment Income Manual at EIM30240 (gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim30240);
(ii) apply to HMRC for an approval notice for use of a bespoke scale rate after undertaking a sampling exercise to establish a reasonable estimate of the expenses actually incurred by their employees. Further guidance on carrying out a sampling exercise can be found in the HMRC Employment Income Manual at EIM30250(gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim30250 )
(iii) apply to HMRC for an approval notice to pay or reimburse employee expenses using the agreed industry scale rate for the haulage sector: this is currently £34.90 or 75% of this figure (£26.20) where the driver has a sleeper cab. Employers applying for the industry scale rate will not have to undertake a sampling exercise before doing so. See the HMRC Employment Income Manual at EIM30255 (gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim30255);
(iv) pay or reimburse employees actual expenditure where evidence is provided to the employer to show the actual expense incurred.
“The government has set out in legislation the requirement that employers wishing to use a scale rate must have a checking system in place to ensure that employees are incurring and paying a qualifying expense. See the HMRC Employment Income Manual at EIM30270 (gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim30270). This requirement applies to all employers whether they use HMRC’s agreed benchmark scale rates, apply to HMRC for an approval notice to continue to use an industry specific scale rate, undertake a sampling exercise to agree a bespoke scale rate with HMRC or reimburse employees based on actual expenses incurred.”
Trying to determine what drivers are entitled to under this set of rules seems very difficult - HMRC at one point in their manual quote a subsistence figure of £25 per day for employees who are away from home for more than 15 hours, which seems reasonable, but this new set of rules brings more questions about what employers will have to do to demonstrate that their drivers have actually spend the money.
I’ll be trying to get a better understanding of what firms will be doing, and how they will be interpreting the new structure.
Chris
Trucking TV
