IDP to drive in the EU after Brexit

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

ZHR are being chipped away at now. This is odd, as I would have thought that the ZHC is kinda obvious for the main reason our UK labour market works when clearly the continental version does NOT.
Macron, with all that “Anti Le Pen Support” he got - is now shafting the very people he told “not to vote for Le Pen - because she will do this to YOU”.

There are many “Sub-issues” regarding Brexit that have been bigged-up rather a lot imo.

What do we really care about here? Jobs, Income, Taxes, Security, Stablity… immigration WAY down the list. (Well, at least it was for me)

To listen to the Anti-Right pundits though - “We only care about pulling up the bloody drawbridge”, and bugger-all else!

My main reason for voting Leave - was to end Austerity, by putting Britain back on a self-financing footing again.
No need to “borrow” every week to pay for public servants - if we can now pay that bill out of “money we’re no longer paying Brussels”.
As for that old chestnut about the £350m per week being a lie…
It wasn’t a lie, just an inaccurate estimate.
The actual amount - now looks likely to be a lot HIGHER than that!
Compare the “Bus” as Remain’s biggest argument and evidence of “Brexiteer Porkies” - to the long string of dire predictions made by the Remain camp - which have not come true at ALL, except the pound sterling dropping on the foreign exchange markets… And even THEN - Exporters are reporting a boom in sales, so there was a silver lining to THAT as well!

Everyone is going to watch everyone else now. It is like being the first into the nightclub… You hang about for a couple of hours, and wait for the decent crumpet to turn up before making an idiot of yourself half-cut, by striding out onto dem Tanzenflache all by yourself…
The best deals will be offered the latest in the day - both by the EU “not to break diplomatic relations with them” (we’ve 100% Left, but the EU might want to save their trade with the UK yet!)
and…
Deals from countries that have been told behind the scenes by the EU “Don’t trade with Britain… They are not going to make it out, and if you do WE might not sign a treaty with you!”

Then there’s the rest of the world’s economies that don’t have much of a relationship with the EU as it stands - no sea access.
Landlocked countries all over the world…

On that subject, I’m looking at this new “re-opening of the silk road” being talked of by China and Russia… Hmm… :bulb:

42

I need more time to digest this thread. :stuck_out_tongue:

I will say though I like Pat Condell. Although he has gone down hill as of late. He used to be great at calling out BS now he is clearly making his videos with more of a right-wing lean to them.

I’ll probably get chastised for both liking him and criticising him… ah well.
Any ‘free thinking’ person’ who can’t listen to people like Pat or Germaine Greer or even someone like Alex Jones without trying to understand their point of view is someone who is a bit close minded.
That being said I do struggle with Alex Jones especially when he starts talking about aliens. :laughing:

43

Franglais:

Juddian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9T4dGAxtO0

Pat Condell explains why we, the Brexiteers, don’t actually care what they, the Remainers, think of us any more.

Personally I do care what my fellow citizens think.
And I am surprised if you, Juddian, really dont care. Honestly, you dont care about living in a country where all get to speak?
So long as you remain in a majority in all matters you may be OK, but when you find yourself in a minority you may get to think differently.
I always thought that the UK was a haven for tolerance and democracy. Not “the majority has voted for “X” therefore all dissent must be silenced”. That is the description of a totalitarian state. No, I can`t seriously believe you want that.

I have never, I think, called anyone who voted differently to me stupid, for their choices.

What an angry man Pat Condell is:
He starts by trying to split the country into “us and them”. Points out the differences in the two ways to view the situation rather than see us a common nationality trying to muddle our way forward. He moans about being branded one way, whilst lumping all opposing views as elitist, useless, unemployable, fools. He complains about his side being misrepresented, whilst misrepresenting his opponents…
EU propaganda in schools? What?
Never heard a bad word about the EU from a school teacher? Not me its true. But then I quit school before the EU existed so it isnt very likely really is it? :smiley:
Teachers worried about EU funding he suggests? Impossible, we dont get any benefits from the EU do we? Then a nice bit of him raising the ire of those who feel aggrieved at the press. He suggests the press think of Leavers as being treated like animals to be spoken over. He says he/we listen to every lie, slander etc. I guess he does. I guess he chooses not to listen to any reasoned argument against his point of view? 9min [we will vote against them and what they believe in] No constructive policies to offer? Like a spoilt teenager: "Nah, dont want X. Nah, dont want Y. Nah, dont want. You`re always getting at me."
" In the free and healthy society we want…people with [their] mindset should be kept away" … No tolerance or democracy on view here it seems.

Seems to me there are arguments on both sides. Someone like this refusing to listen to those with concerns for the country`s future is a step towards a nasty uncaring type of UK. Not the UK I grew up in, where people could disagree without getting so irate about perceived slurs.

For what its worth I dont think the majority of Leavers are as anti-democratic as this man.

The problem with “Caring for one’s fellow citizens” is that it is now seen as a weakness - a weakness seized upon by the Left and Islam alike at that. Perhaps this was the main reason the two factions got together in the first place even? If you say you “care” - you are constantly scrounged upon to “prove it”. If you say you “don’t care” - then instead of being applauded for being “honest and telling the truth” - you get lamblasted for being “Right Wing”! At no point do people who actually do the caring rather than those employing the carers - get asked. I’m dismayed at the low quality of “private care staff” for example, where it is evident that there is some kind of “Race to the Bottom”. How can you get the best of ANY kind of worker - if you pay the least, have the rubbish contracts that do not reward the most popular staff, and “contracts for life” concept kept intact - so it’s well-nigh impossible to get rid of the crappy staff??

In my mind, the NHS is now full of people there because they think the NHS is their political platform, rather than they actually want to help. This is VERY dangerous in this time where Union Power among NHS staff has outgrown the very fabric of what the NHS was originally set up to be for the British Public!

The same can be said of Academia of course. “Infested by Lefties”. Say the wrong thing as a teacher - and you’re OUT. Not “Sacked” so much - but rather “constructively dismissed”.
You care about your students? - PROVE it - by working extra hours unpaid, and carrying all those loudmouth staff that seem to always be there for the political functions, but are on long-term sick the rest of the time…

“Brexit” is much more than dismantling our relationship with politically-correct, bureaucratically-insane, and corrupt to the core EU. It represents an opportunity to get ALL our former glorious institutions back at once! The NHS, that should be the LABOUR Crown Jewel - has turned into the shrunken head trophy of the Far Left. There is an argument for the old Labour Party that was electable not that long ago - to revitalize itself by returning to a platform of caring for the very British Citizens that are going to be paying for their improved services they envisage.
Despite all the arguments that “There is no such thing as a Left Brexit”, Brexit is going to happen one day regardless. It is every politician’s choice to be improved by that process, or destroyed by it. Whilst the Libdems seem to have already chosen Self-Destruction “in a ■■■■■■ spherasmism of un-joy” - Labour have yet to come off the fence, and truly nail their colours to what they will be representing in the future of UK politics post-Brexit. :neutral_face:

44

adam277:
I need more time to digest this thread. :stuck_out_tongue:

I will say though I like Pat Condell. Although he has gone down hill as of late. He used to be great at calling out BS now he is clearly making his videos with more of a right-wing lean to them.

I’ll probably get chastised for both liking him and criticising him… ah well.
Any ‘free thinking’ person’ who can’t listen to people like Pat or Germaine Greer or even someone like Alex Jones without trying to understand their point of view is someone who is a bit close minded.
That being said I do struggle with Alex Jones especially when he starts talking about aliens. :laughing:

I find Alex Jones hard to listen to - full stop. It is just the way he talks that grates with me.
I find Watson’s vids - much more palatable though. :stuck_out_tongue:

45

Franglais:

Carryfast:
Let’s get this right you’re standing for Federal government in which we effectively have to submit to at best a foreign mandate outside our borders to at worse the directive of an unelected politburo.While also arguing that a democratic decision should be reversed.Not just that you don’t agree with what’s been decided.Then you’ve got the nerve to say that it’s us who are undemocratic.Having said that yes I do agree that Federalism v Nationalism isn’t a division that can be decided by referendum.In which case let’s ditch both the 1975 and 2016 referendum decisions and restore our non EU member state status quo of 1972.

OK, then lets try to get this right. No where have I argued for a second referendum. No where have I said that an Exit vote was anti-democratic. I am unhappy about the out vote. And am even unhappier about the way it is being delivered. I did say that this guy has some anti-democratic views although he self describes as a popular democrat. I would have preferred it if we had decided to stay in the EU, which YOU describe as a Federation, although that is NOT a universally held opinion of its form. That doesn`t mean that I am massive fan of every aspect of it.
In the world I live in I rarely have a Black/White opinion on matters. Unfortunately we have to make binary choices at the ballot box.

I was u happy when the Tories got into power in 2010, I didn’t whine and demand a second GE to try and get another party in … the pint of democracy is you accept the result whether you like it or not … the minority have to accept that Gina Davies took a non legally binding referendum and made a bill pass in the Commons to ensure that Article 50 was envoked.

Let’s have a second referndum … the leave camp would still win, I found out after the vote, very clever ploy by the government I was still eligible to vote on the EU as I have been out of the country only a sufficient time which would not prevent a legal vote from me.

I would of voted leave, and a lot of expat Brits here in Australia would of… Cameron said clearly prior to the vote a vote was to leave ie out means out …accept democracy. Because X amount voted differently to you and the majority win … just like all votes …

46

Brexit.

Well worded thoughts of how it “might” be, no matter how staunch you might feel on the subject are at best a shot in the dark…
GREAT BRITAIN,
If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem.

Keep calm and carry on.

images-4.jpg

47

With all thats being said about Brexit,how many Remoaners only know life in the EU.
Many where not even born or where still in nappies and have never known the UK as it was,trading with the World,without EU rules telling us we cant import NZ Lamb or bananas have to a certain size and shape so we could not have bananas from the Canary Island. There are other Countries outside the EU who require Visas on entry or an IDP before you drive,UK coped before under WTO Rules we can cope again,deal or no deal. As for travelling or free movement how many actually will travel or are likely to travel to the EU other than for a w/e or a holiday more than twice a year.Alot are only moaning about it because they "might" want to travel at some point,but cant be arsed to get the required documents.
Leave deal or no deal bring it on

48

discoman:

Franglais:

Carryfast:
Let’s get this right you’re standing for Federal government in which we effectively have to submit to at best a foreign mandate outside our borders to at worse the directive of an unelected politburo.While also arguing that a democratic decision should be reversed.Not just that you don’t agree with what’s been decided.Then you’ve got the nerve to say that it’s us who are undemocratic.Having said that yes I do agree that Federalism v Nationalism isn’t a division that can be decided by referendum.In which case let’s ditch both the 1975 and 2016 referendum decisions and restore our non EU member state status quo of 1972.

OK, then lets try to get this right. No where have I argued for a second referendum. No where have I said that an Exit vote was anti-democratic. I am unhappy about the out vote. And am even unhappier about the way it is being delivered. I did say that this guy has some anti-democratic views although he self describes as a popular democrat. I would have preferred it if we had decided to stay in the EU, which YOU describe as a Federation, although that is NOT a universally held opinion of its form. That doesn`t mean that I am massive fan of every aspect of it.
In the world I live in I rarely have a Black/White opinion on matters. Unfortunately we have to make binary choices at the ballot box.

I was u happy when the Tories got into power in 2010, I didn’t whine and demand a second GE to try and get another party in … the pint of democracy is you accept the result whether you like it or not … the minority have to accept that Gina Davies took a non legally binding referendum and made a bill pass in the Commons to ensure that Article 50 was envoked.

Let’s have a second referndum … the leave camp would still win, I found out after the vote, very clever ploy by the government I was still eligible to vote on the EU as I have been out of the country only a sufficient time which would not prevent a legal vote from me.

I would of voted leave, and a lot of expat Brits here in Australia would of… Cameron said clearly prior to the vote a vote was to leave ie out means out …accept democracy. Because X amount voted differently to you and the majority win … just like all votes …

The prinipal that would be broken by holding a second referendum - is that if the FIRST result “win by a short distance” - wasn’t considered “wide enough”, - then WHAT IS?

The EU have just turned down the so-called “Cheqeurs Plan” that was 90/10 IN THEIR FAVOUR. They were clearly expecting a 100/0 in their favour, which would be “The UK doesn’t leave the EU, keeps on paying it’s subs to Brussels, and as a reward for UK minister’s loyalty in fudging Brexit - will be given a big fat pension, leaving senior ministers to run off yelling I’m set up for life, and I’m alright jack!”

The only way it would be worth holding any second referendum on anything at all - is if we Brexiteers were 100% sure of a 100/0 result in OUR favour. That just isn’t ever going to happen though.
We cannot possibly hold anoter vote, where any remainers at all - would represent an effective veto on that vote, and we’d be sent back to have another vote… and another… until the result the EU wants comes in … 51/49 in THEIR favour, at which point “The result stands, and it is now a criminal offence to hold further referenda on the subject of EU withdrawal”.

No thanks! I’d rather go to war with the EU than submit to it now! FFS Imagine if we’d held a referendum on “Should we go to war with Germany over their invasion of Poland” in 1939■■

Pacifists, the IRA, and ■■■■ Lovers - would all vote NO in such a referendum… “Leadership” means a politican “does the right thing” - without being asked or without asking though.
To this day, there are still some voices that would argue “If we’d not gone to war, thousands of Brits wouldn’t have died in enemy action and the blitz…” so say the pacifists. The IRA would say “We’d have a united ireland, upon Hitler’s successful invasion campaign!” and of course the ■■■■ Lovers (a bit like today’s Momentum) would argue "We could save millions of ordinary Brits from Luftwaffe bombing alone - for what? A handful of filthy rich businesspeople like Alan Sugar and Phillip Green and Nigel Lawson and Zac Goldsmith and Jack Cohen…"

It is alarming that such arguments are already doing the rounds among the Momentum crowds. :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

49

Makes me cringe when the remoaners talk about having a second vote and calling it the PEOPLE’S VOTE in order to get the decision they want. If i’m not mistaken wasn’t the vote we had a peoples vote? ie the people who live in the supposed best democracy on the planet voted and voted out, ie more people voted to leave than remain, oh hang on there it’s a people’s vote in name only and when it goes against the establishments demands it suddenly isn’t a people’s vote any longer but becomes a situation for many to attempt turn our democracy into a semi dictatorship.

50

Steady on! next the “first” (and hopefully ONLY) referendum - will have been won by “deplorables” who had nothing better to do that rainy thursday afternoon two years ago…

If the weather had been better - would turnout for Remain had been higher? - Or Leave voters?

Chances are, it would have been just a higher turnout, with a very similar result.

Interestingly, I’ve not heard of any “didn’t vote at all” people being bullied or otherwise put-upon by either camp for “not bothering to improve the result”…

I believe, that for example - around 20% was taken OFF the Leave tally - by the assassiation of Jo Cox… How many people must have “washed their hands” of the whole dirty business of “public politik” once that happened?

If it had been say, Frank Field that had been assassinated - I imagine a similar result but the other way would have occured… That would mean (by my estimates) that 52% would have been 72% with Jo Cox still alive, and 72% would have been 92% with Frank Field, Grandee of the Labour Party - the one taken out by say, an Islamic or Antifa terrorist. :open_mouth:

51

I can’t see a second vote changing things everyone I know seemed pretty entrenched about what way they voted and speaking to them since nothing seems to have changed.
I am coming round to changing my vote to remain not as I’ve become a massive EU fan just that all our MPs seem equally useless and can’t see them making things better for people and most likely making it worse

52

kr79:
I can’t see a second vote changing things everyone I know seemed pretty entrenched about what way they voted and speaking to them since nothing seems to have changed.
I am coming round to changing my vote to remain not as I’ve become a massive EU fan just that all our MPs seem equally useless and can’t see them making things better for people and most likely making it worse

I thought that at first.
The problem is clear now. May wanted a special relationship with the EU (checqers) EU wants to give no special favours to EU incase other countries follow suit.

Deadlock is innevtible. We need to just leave and get on with it. Fudge the EU. The biggest mistake we done was not prepare for a hard brexit to begin with as it would of made the EU think twice.

May seems to realise this now though so should get better.
I’ll be quite happy to leave on world trade terms as well. The biggest issue with brexit has been the constant fear mongering not helped by people like mark carney who is not meant to take sides which has just strengthend the position of the EU.
I voted remain BTW.

Brexit is not complicated if we go down the hard brexit model.
It’s this soft half assed brexit that the politicans have been trying to peddle that had everyone scratching their heads. The only major issue is the Irish border.

53

“Hard Brexit” really - was all about the UK invoking EU ire and abuse. The fear of Hard Brexit was just the fear of such abuse from the EU - if the UK acted thus. “Got Brutal about leaving quickly, and stopping the money even MORE quickly”…

Since we’ve been getting pretty much nothing but that from the referedum two years back - it seems now a good time for May to realize that the 52% did NOT get it wrong.

“Leaving the EU on good terms” when we are their cash cow on tap - was never going to go lightly.

Germany’s reparations to the victorious allies following the Treaty of Versailles - were ruining the country, keeping it poor, and preventing economic recovery by banning heavy industry.

Leaving the EU - if it doesn’t happen before long - will merely shift more of the UK public towards “extremism” - the Left kind as well as the Right kind.
It seems to be the case of late that the Hard Left seem to think they can routinely abuse, bully, insult, and just obstruct anyone not of their number - with some kind of false-sense-of-security impunity. They don’t realize that the UKIP voters of 2015 that switched to Labour “for a laugh” in 2017 - are NOT likely to stick around, if indeed they have not left already.
I’ve heard the argument made that “Labour’s £3 joining fee, attracted a whole bunch of people who wanted to nobble Labour by making sure their new leader was a no-hoper”.
…Well I dunno if that’s true or not - but it is an interesting concept “voting for a party to nobble it”.

Let us not forget though that War has always been “a continuation of Politics by other means” - once Diplomacy fails.

Ask a historian “When did we realize that war vs xxxxx is inevitable”? Did we know in 1910 for example that we would be at war with the Kaiser’s Germany 4 years hence?
…Or did we realize straight away in 1933 following Hitler’s entry into government - that we would be fighting them six years hence?

If I go to London tomorrow - am I going to be alive six hours hence? It don’t seem very safe these days, and it isn’t “immigrants” I’m worried about here!

54

adam277:

kr79:
I can’t see a second vote changing things everyone I know seemed pretty entrenched about what way they voted and speaking to them since nothing seems to have changed.
I am coming round to changing my vote to remain not as I’ve become a massive EU fan just that all our MPs seem equally useless and can’t see them making things better for people and most likely making it worse

I thought that at first.
The problem is clear now. May wanted a special relationship with the EU (checqers) EU wants to give no special favours to EU incase other countries follow suit.

Deadlock is innevtible. We need to just leave and get on with it. Fudge the EU. The biggest mistake we done was not prepare for a hard brexit to begin with as it would of made the EU think twice.

May seems to realise this now though so should get better.
I’ll be quite happy to leave on world trade terms as well. The biggest issue with brexit has been the constant fear mongering not helped by people like mark carney who is not meant to take sides which has just strengthend the position of the EU.
I voted remain BTW.

Brexit is not complicated if we go down the hard brexit model.
It’s this soft half assed brexit that the politicans have been trying to peddle that had everyone scratching their heads. The only major issue is the Irish border.

My boss been told 20 % in new wagon price no deal border a scam real reason it’s a problem is the terrorists give up fighting but are in to scams on fuel cattle booze n ■■■■ hard border will affect it they won’t like it

55

Maybe the remoaners need reminding of what the EU is really like, we have all heard of UTC time, now it seems that we are all going to have to observe Junker Time instead:

express.co.uk/news/politics … ker-brexit

This is the kind of moronic gibberish that occupies the mind of these EU bufoons we are having to deal with. It is such a pity that the UK didn’t listen when De Gaulle said NON.

Out Tonight.

56

It could be worse… The EU could force us to drive on the Right, which is about the only thing “Right” they have any interest in.

No doubt the Remainers would lap it up, as some kind of “Price well worth paying” for a perceived “Re-entry” into the EU - when we haven’t even left yet!

Don’t we have EU elections due late next year?

It would be interesting if the EU hasn’t let us go by that point, and then tries to argue that “Britain no longer gets to field candidates in that election”…

Farage is already on record saying “I would like to be sacked along with all the other MEPs as quickly as possible” only to be shot down by that moron who stands behind him in the parliament with abusive slogans all the time… Ok Non-UKIP MEPS - We get where you’re coming from here! You want to stay on the gravy train! Farage and co, are quite happy being a Turkey continuing to press for Christmas!

Meanwhile, Farage’s hat is off to “Thumping Majority” Viktor Orban, who has recently been given a lot of stick at the EU parliement…

57

robbo99.:
Isn’t it rather rich that the gobsh1tes like Blair continue to crow about how the British public didn’t know the facts on what leaving the EU entailed.

Tony Blair of all people should knows about not giving the British people (or even parliament) the full facts. :open_mouth: :wink:

58

I think one of the few things Blair done right was to go to war. But that is besides the point. :stuck_out_tongue:

59

adam277:
I think one of the few things Blair done right was to go to war. But that is besides the point. :stuck_out_tongue:

We should have gone to war with Saudi Arabia and Iran though - Not bloody Iraq, Aghanistan, Libya, and now Syria.
STOP the damned “Proxy Wars”. You either fight your actual enemies - or you don’t.

Blair killing at least a 6-figure number of Iraqis, and inviting the survivors including anyone wanting to pretending to be a refugee - over the Blighty in some kind of “Mea Culpa” excercise in country-trashing hand-wringing - was NOT the most “Right” thing Blair ever did.

I would argue Blair turning Britain into a surveillance society - was actually the worst thing he did, also hiding behind the caveat of “Right”.

Our Nation’s security cameras - hold data that is usable against the public BY the establishment - but NOT the other way around, where “Public Footage” still counts for little in the courts, civil or criminal.