Very interesting post,I am very interested in all the replies as I have a Daf 105 with a 12 speed manual which I like the spacings but in my opion is not as smooth to change gear as the 16 speed I have friends who drive with the as tronic and they say I should have got that box instead of the manual .I have always been a driver who prefers a manual but having said that I have never driven an auto in all of my thirty years of driving trucks.In the next year to eighteen months I am thinking of changing my truck I know what make and engine size it will be but now I am totally lost of what gearbox to choose I was going to try an auto this time as mates of mine who have tried the new Daf really rate it but after reading some replies now I am not so sure .Do I go back to the 16 speed are other Daf 12 speed boxes smoother then mine and give it another go again or just go for auto the reason for thinking of auto in the first place is that my joints are starting to ache an age thing I think any thoughts anyone
Prof.
The 16 speed ZF i had in the CF was the best box i’d driven for years, fast changes, easy shift, excellent ratio spread, so far above and beyond the Swedish manual boxes poor, in comparison, offerings.
Coupled with the 460 engine it was a cracking drivers lorry, romped away from junctions and half way up the road, whilst the equivalent autos were still computing switching the clutch from off to instant engage and lurch out long after the opportunity to pull out safely had gone.
A proper hill stormer too, excellent ratios…my only gripe was the final drive choice, it didn’t need to be revving at 1300rpm for 55mph, more than enough torque to have higher final drive gearing to drop that to 1100 max at the same speed.
Manoeuvering a joy again, able to take a pride in precise control again, able to kiss a loading bank if so wished, not trying to ram the bloody thing out the other side of the building.
Certainly my choice of box from the current European makers.
Dont want to go back to a manual we have 10 XFs in our fleet and were talking about this last week and only 1 driver said he wanted back to a manual ive never had a problem in the snow/ice or shunting going back to a manual would be akin to getting handed a starting handle but must admit the Daf 16 speed was a great box
Funnily you say that juddian a friend of mine who does relief driving for people done a week to France on a 12 speed 105 which he did not like to notchy then he done a week on uk dock work with the new Daf with the auto which he said was ok but not outstanding then done a night trunk in a cf with the 16 speed and he said he enjoyed that most of all,in my last lorry I had it had the 16 speed box in I bought that lorry at just over a year old and the gear change was a lot smoother then the one I have now
I specked the 12 speed this time as other people told me how good it was but to be honest although the ratio’s are great I am a little bit disappointed how smooth it is also in my opinion the gate is the wrong way round in my eyes it’s not the natural way to change gear it goes 1 gear position to 3rd then 4th where I think it would be better if it went 1 2 3 if you are tired sometimes you forget what way to go and you go to change into the 2nd position which of course is not there
Compared with the MAN I find the DAF very slow to select a gear from Neutral and very slow to change gear particularly changing down. How ever the DAF (460) is a lot more economical than the MAN and I assume this is all part of it. The clutch on the MAN was a lot smoother as well, but the DAF is new so there is time for it to bed in.
knight:
Compared with the MAN I find the DAF very slow to select a gear from Neutral and very slow to change gear particularly changing down. How ever the DAF (460) is a lot more economical than the MAN and I assume this is all part of it. The clutch on the MAN was a lot smoother as well, but the DAF is new so there is time for it to bed in.
Thanks Knight.
Different to what some others said how much improved the latest DAF’s were re satans gearbox, be interesting to hear if it improves over time, when my current steed goes back its possible might have a chance of a DAF again, no chance of a proper gearbox in it mind, so i’d like to know if its worth making a preference known…can it be driven in manual override still?
Professor:
I specked the 12 speed this time as other people told me how good it was but to be honest although the ratio’s are great I am a little bit disappointed how smooth it is also in my opinion the gate is the wrong way round in my eyes it’s not the natural way to change gear it goes 1 gear position to 3rd then 4th where I think it would be better if it went 1 2 3 if you are tired sometimes you forget what way to go and you go to change into the 2nd position which of course is not there
I suppose its what you get used to, one of my favourite boxes was a 12 speed splitter (Spicer?..nah hang on its ZF in the DAF i think, Spicer was in Roadtrain?) in a DAF 2800 DKTD, Gelders spec so possibly uprated engine wise, no synchro 1st nearest to you, 6th furthest away and obviously you could split every gear, you could whizz through those changes like billio once used to it, a real pleasure to drive, the DKTD was supposed to be the lowest HP of the three 2800 specs, but in practice it would leave other 2800’s , DKS, DKSE, standing, partly IMO through the gearbox being so good.
I never liked gear changes that arnt natural, David Browns where a reverse H pattern was used, bottom left them top left, then top right and finally bottom right, (thats probably the wrong way round but it was a day or two ago 
) as you say much too easy to get wrong.
I wonder how many of the silly buggers falling alseep at the wheel now at night and in the small hours and driving off the road is cos they sit there vegetating whilst computer does it all.
Yes you can still drive it in manual which I do from time to time. I often override it just to knock it down a cog or two, annoyingly I some times have to do this when unloaded just to join the motorway at a decent speed. The place this happens most is when I’m leaving Freightliner at Stourton in Leeds and heading south on the M621. As I leave the roundabout and join the slip road it will select a high gear then slog it’s way up the slip road joining the motorway at about 45 if your lucky.
Thanks Knight, i tend to leave the MAN to it in auto when empty until i’m up to cruising speed on the open road then lock it in top, not least though as it defaults down to 3rd when you come anywhere near to rest in manual, yet is happy enough with 5th as start gear if its in auto.
Drive it continually in manual loaded though, the programming isn’t anywhere near good enough in auto, watch the fuel gauge drop.
To be fair, Scanias auto box whilst as much use as a chocolate teapot in auto, lends itself to as near perfect manual driving as possible in manual override, very responsive, but must use MH for swift changes, not plain M, for you could get a book out and read a chapter or two waiting for the next shift…
Juddian:
To be fair, Scanias auto box whilst as much use as a chocolate teapot in auto, lends itself to as near perfect manual driving as possible in manual override, very responsive, but must use MH for swift changes, not plain M, for you could get a book out and read a chapter or two waiting for the next shift…
It might be my lack of any real time in a Scania auto but as I remember you can only change up 2 gears at a time, or am I wrong?
Ross.
Talking of Dafs, does anyone find the 8speed ZF a bit clunky when changing?
bigr250:
Juddian:
To be fair, Scanias auto box whilst as much use as a chocolate teapot in auto, lends itself to as near perfect manual driving as possible in manual override, very responsive, but must use MH for swift changes, not plain M, for you could get a book out and read a chapter or two waiting for the next shift…It might be my lack of any real time in a Scania auto but as I remember you can only change up 2 gears at a time, or am I wrong?
Ross.
Ross, i wouldn’t like to put money on it, but i’m almost certain on steep hill climbing i’ve done 3 gear drops when needed, certainly the system almost always responded exactly as required, must give it credit for that…more than can be said for the ZF thing.
No, thinking about it i’ve definately block changed down however many shifts needed for junctions etc…its the ZF, at least in MAN form that will only allow a max of 3 block shifts at one.
Muckaway:
Talking of Dafs, does anyone find the 8speed ZF a bit clunky when changing?
ive had several brand new daf cf’s with eight speed boxes,one in particular(61 plate) was very “clunky” the others were all ok
andrew.s:
Muckaway:
Talking of Dafs, does anyone find the 8speed ZF a bit clunky when changing?ive had several brand new daf cf’s with eight speed boxes,one in particular(61 plate) was very “clunky” the others were all ok
The older ones I’ve driven were a bit of a maul, the hire one we had with less than 100k on it was sweet as a nut
Hi All
I’ve had many years on auto trucks, Volvo and MAN, and during those years I had short spells on manual trucks. At no time whilst driving a manual did I really miss the auto box. I didn’t have an ■■■■■■ stirring a gear lever again. It was a truck to drive and do a days work with.
As for the auto’s , I agree that the I-shift has the edge but I didnt have any problems with the MAN , Both types were on and off sites ,in and out of concrete plants ,and a lot of the plants were in quarries, never any bother gearbox wise.
If I could pick a modern truck ,for me it would be a MAN with Volvo engine and I-Shift box, Maybe with every truckmaker either taking over or being took over , that truck might be a bit more than speculation,
Cheers Bassman
toby1234abc:
Oh the joys of the ERF Eaton Twin Splitter.Autos get you stuck on snow and ice on a small gradient of a road.Reversing with an auto to hook up to a trailer.;No likey; No lighty.
Auto in Snow,Yes. That why i take off January and February for a few Week.Anywhy not much work that Time of Year,and Ebay.com full of cheap Land in California and Nevada which would safe me Hotel Costs.
If I had my way I’d never drive a manual truck again. And ive driven a wide variety of manuals, my first job was driving busses, many of which dated back to the mid 70s, and twin splitters and most types inbetween. I just don’t like manuals, the iShift in my lorry is a joy to work with. Almost never use it in manual mode, only if I’m in a rush I knock it down a gear quick when hitting a steep hill full weight to keep it on the limiter. 
Andyroo:
Autoboxes can’t see the road ahead, and flicking at some silly tacky plastic switch to change gear is just stupid.
Modern ones can. They use gps and topographical mapping to optimise gearshifting. Others will also learn routes and when to change
ezydriver:
andy187:
Andyroo:
Autoboxes can’t see the road ahead, and flicking at some silly tacky plastic switch to change gear is just stupid.That’s depressing.
Mercedes have the same, Predictive Powertrain Control. All our new Actros’s have it so it must be worth speccing.
Terry T:
Mercedes have the same, Predictive Powertrain Control. All our new Actros’s have it so it must be worth speccing.
Yeah we have PPC on our new ones too but it does tend to drop the power a little early for my liking when nearly reaching the summit of a hill on the motorway for example with lorries behind you and they must be wondering wtf is that driver doing suddenly slowing down for.