Wheel Nut:
Forget the heat humps for now, a petrol car that did 400 miles on a tankful of unleaded is now doing 250 miles on E10
There’s been quite a bit of Brouhaha around the internet over this E10 since it was introduced in September, Drivers have had a month or so to evaluate it & lots of drivers are complaining that they’re getting up to three times less MPG on E10 than E5 and the smaller CC of the engine the more pronounced the drop in MPG became uk.newschant.com/auto/e10-petro … mes-worse/
Janos:
Anybody have experience of using an electric water heater instead of gas?
Indirect hot water cylinders usually have an electric immersion heater, for hot water not heating, in the system for if the gas boiler is off line for whatever reason.Try it and see what that alone does to the fuel bill let alone if it included heating.
A gas boiler runs at around 20 kwh + for hot water and heating.
Electric is 26p per kwh as opposed to 6p per kwh for gas …so far, with Bozo having just ramped up gas prices by double from 3p per kwh obviously on the way to artificial equalisation.Unless he’s trying to say that ‘wholesale prices’ for gas supposedly doubled within one month.
So call it £5.20 per hour for electric v £1.20 per hour for gas.
Thanks CF. It was the rumours of eventual price equalisation that got me thinking seriously about all electric.
Janos:
Anybody have experience of using an electric water heater instead of gas?
Boy up the road put in electric for heat and water replacing an old gas boiler. 2 years later changed back taking the hit as it was that expensive.
Sent from my R19 using Tapatalk
That must of been a big electric bill to justify putting the gas back in. Difficult to find a positive with electric apart from the cheaper installation and maintenance.
Wheel Nut:
Forget the heat humps for now, a petrol car that did 400 miles on a tankful of unleaded is now doing 250 miles on E10
I am using Shell V-power (E5) and i am getting the same if not more MPG it also seems to run smoother but i dont know if that is in my head, V-Power its more expensive but using it means i don’t worry what E10 is doing to it (in a bad way) V-Power E5 also has stuff in it that cleans the engine so worth the extra for me
Wheel Nut:
Forget the heat humps for now, a petrol car that did 400 miles on a tankful of unleaded is now doing 250 miles on E10
There’s been quite a bit of Brouhaha around the internet over this E10 since it was introduced in September, Drivers have had a month or so to evaluate it & lots of drivers are complaining that they’re getting up to three times less MPG on E10 than E5 and the smaller CC of the engine the more pronounced the drop in MPG became uk.newschant.com/auto/e10-petro … mes-worse/
“MeerJabsNodig” says so?
In the Express?
Irrefutable!
And what is “3 times less mpg”? Please.
Wheel Nut:
Forget the heat humps for now, a petrol car that did 400 miles on a tankful of unleaded is now doing 250 miles on E10
There’s been quite a bit of Brouhaha around the internet over this E10 since it was introduced in September, Drivers have had a month or so to evaluate it & lots of drivers are complaining that they’re getting up to three times less MPG on E10 than E5 and the smaller CC of the engine the more pronounced the drop in MPG became uk.newschant.com/auto/e10-petro … mes-worse/
“MeerJabsNodig” says so?
In the Express?
Irrefutable!
And what is “3 times less mpg”? Please.
lancpudn:
There’s been quite a bit of Brouhaha around the internet over this E10 since it was introduced in September, Drivers have had a month or so to evaluate it & lots of drivers are complaining that they’re getting up to three times less MPG on E10 than E5 and the smaller CC of the engine the more pronounced the drop in MPG became uk.newschant.com/auto/e10-petro … mes-worse/
A smaller engine will need to be thrashed more than a large one to maintain the equivalent road speed as before with a more retarded ignition map imposed by the knock sensors.Especially in the case of a small capacity forced induction motor like a 1.0 litre ecoboost.
These engines are designed to produce a lot of specific power by using high cylinder pressures which by definition needs the highest octane fuel possible to run with efficient ignition timing to take advantage of the pressures.
Janos:
Anybody have experience of using an electric water heater instead of gas?
Indirect hot water cylinders usually have an electric immersion heater, for hot water not heating, in the system for if the gas boiler is off line for whatever reason.Try it and see what that alone does to the fuel bill let alone if it included heating.
A gas boiler runs at around 20 kwh + for hot water and heating.
Electric is 26p per kwh as opposed to 6p per kwh for gas …so far, with Bozo having just ramped up gas prices by double from 3p per kwh obviously on the way to artificial equalisation.Unless he’s trying to say that ‘wholesale prices’ for gas supposedly doubled within one month.
So call it £5.20 per hour for electric v £1.20 per hour for gas.
Thanks CF. It was the rumours of eventual price equalisation that got me thinking seriously about all electric.
Either option will be as unaffordable as each other.
If he hits biomass woodchip used for solid fuel boilers when power stations can use the stuff as a so called ‘renewable’ that’ll be the absolute proof it’s an electric captive market scam.
But I’d still preferr all electric to a rip off useless piece of junk anything but ‘heat’ pump.At least it would do the job …at a price.
Probably oil filled plug in radiators are a practical option in that case and use the money saved on the rip off heat pump installation cost to run them.
Very simplistic explanation.
Cylinder pressures play a larger part in the efficiency equation than energy density of the fuel and you can’t run efficient cylinder pressures on 95 octane fuel let alone 87 octane.
It’s the octane rating of E10 which is the bigger problem let alone the type of 87 octane muck that he’s referring to.
The ignition timing has to be backed off to the point where it cancels out any cylinder pressure advantages.If drivers then try to use a lot more throttle to compensate for the resulting lost acceleration throughout the range that could easily create 2 or 3 x worse mpg figures in the real world.
My Zafira isn’t even a turbo engine but it suffers very noticeable pinking on regular unleaded and that was even before E10 was introduced.I long ago swapped it to V Power etc.
The government are obviously deliberately setting it up to fail when 5% more ethanol somehow results in at least 4 points off the octane rating over E5 super unleaded.When the 10% should be added to the 99 octane super unleaded base fuel used for E5 thereby raising it to over 100 octane.
Wheel Nut:
Forget the heat humps for now, a petrol car that did 400 miles on a tankful of unleaded is now doing 250 miles on E10
There’s been quite a bit of Brouhaha around the internet over this E10 since it was introduced in September, Drivers have had a month or so to evaluate it & lots of drivers are complaining that they’re getting up to three times less MPG on E10 than E5 and the smaller CC of the engine the more pronounced the drop in MPG became uk.newschant.com/auto/e10-petro … mes-worse/
“MeerJabsNodig” says so?
In the Express?
Irrefutable!
And what is “3 times less mpg”? Please.
Does ethanol effect fuel economy?
Quite possibly it does, but a random guy talking into a camera is not any form of proof or evidence of this.
And, do you possibly know what “3 times less fuel economy” means. I know it wasn’t your post…but may be you know?
LOL Someone must have pee’d in his cornflakes that morning to come up with that scientific data, There were other online links to this E10 & loss of MPG but they were either behind a paywall or subscriptions.
Does ethanol effect fuel economy?
Quite possibly it does, but a random guy talking into a camera is not any form of proof or evidence of this.
And, do you possibly know what “3 times less fuel economy” means. I know it wasn’t your post…but may be you know?
I imagine 3 times less fuel economy means a third of what you used to get!
The random guy might just know what he is talking about i don’t imagine for a moment he made those figures up!
Hi, I’m Aaron Turpen. I’m an automotive journalist with experience with every brand in production plus a few that aren’t. My background includes technology, commercial vehicles, electric vehicles, and everyday drives. I live in Wyoming and review cars and trucks regularly. This channel includes my thoughts on those vehicles
Does ethanol effect fuel economy?
Quite possibly it does, but a random guy talking into a camera is not any form of proof or evidence of this.
The RAC Report below states up to 3% decrease in economy using E10 -
Is E10 bad then?
This depends on who you speak to. Environmental groups will point to carbon-offsetting properties, while the government will be keen to introduce E10 as a step towards meeting its emissions targets.
But E10 is less efficient than the current E5 blend of fuel, with the problem exacerbated in smaller-engined cars.
RAC fuel spokesman Simon Williams said: “With the price of petrol at its highest for eight years [August 2021], those drivers who have no choice but to use super unleaded E5 petrol will be paying through the nose, as it’s averaging around 147p a litre – that’s 12p more expensive than the current UK average for standard unleaded.
“This will quickly mount up for anyone who has to drive a lot of miles to get to work every week. It’s also probably the case that many of those driving older cars will already be from lower income backgrounds, so they will end up being even worse off.
“And those with E10 compatible cars will unfortunately find they are getting fewer miles to the gallon as the fuel is less efficient than E5 fuel, due to it containing 5% more ethanol.
The US Energy Information Administration (EIA) claims the energy content of ethanol is about 33% less than pure unleaded and that "the impact of fuel ethanol on vehicle fuel economy varies depending on the amount of denaturant that is added to the ethanol.
The EIA states: “The energy content of denaturant is about equal to the energy content of pure gasoline (petrol). In general, vehicle fuel economy may decrease by about 3% when using E10".
3% is clearly very different to 33% or 300%!
But note the RAC piece states “up to” 3% decrease.
.
I’ll take those figures, though.*
The guy who works as a journalist gave no sources at all for his claims. He used very imprecise language and I see no reason to accept what he says at all.
.
Franglais:
3% is clearly very different to 33% or 300%!
But note the RAC piece states “up to” 3% decrease.
.
I’ll take those figures, though.*
The guy who works as a journalist gave no sources at all for his claims. He used very imprecise language and I see no reason to accept what he says at all.
.
I’ll accept them as likely.
You won’t accept anything as being ‘likely’ unless it fits your own ‘climate’ narrative and script.
The RAC guesstimate is only based on the fuel energy content difference.
It isn’t based on what happens in the real world when ignition timing is also retarded by the ECU to compensate for a 2 points reduction in octane rating and drivers maintain equivalent performance using more throttle.
So the question remains why an octane reduction when ethanol content is increased by 5%.
The truth is the same/more money and tax for inferior quality fuel as part of the agenda to disincentivise the use of fossil fuel use.
Let alone 26p per kwh + taxes when it’s EV’s at the risk of nuclear disaster so that ‘developing countries’ can burn all of our fossil fuel supplies instead.
Wheel Nut:
Forget the heat humps for now, a petrol car that did 400 miles on a tankful of unleaded is now doing 250 miles on E10
There’s been quite a bit of Brouhaha around the internet over this E10 since it was introduced in September, Drivers have had a month or so to evaluate it & lots of drivers are complaining that they’re getting up to three times less MPG on E10 than E5 and the smaller CC of the engine the more pronounced the drop in MPG became uk.newschant.com/auto/e10-petro … mes-worse/
On a run today to get my kids…
Mostly quick rural driving in a BMW 116i… about 47 mpg on the old unleaded.
With all the talk about EV and heat pumps, I recalled an article I read last year about how smart meters can target high use equipment, naming these two specifically in the event of high demand.
I wonder how true it is, after all, it was in The Mirror. mirror.co.uk/money/energy-f … -22703216#
But it’s food for thought…
LazyDriver:
With all the talk about EV and heat pumps, I recalled an article I read last year about how smart meters can target high use equipment, naming these two specifically in the event of high demand.
I wonder how true it is, after all, it was in The Mirror. mirror.co.uk/money/energy-f … -22703216#
But it’s food for thought…
It’s obvious that at the very least smart metering gives them control over individual consumer units and dedicated EV charging units.
The motive is there in the massive fines which would be imposed on them in Boris’ brave new zero carbon utopia if they fell back on fossil fuel to generate power especially given a winter like 1981/2.
Installing a solid fuel boiler seems like a good investment unless these scammers ban biomass for domestic use which is likely but would at least prove their lies.
uk.newschant.com/auto/e10-petro … mes-worse/