No, I don’t.
You pull your card at 5pm from your day job.
You have the whole weekend to yourself ( to load your moving truck).
You go back to work on Monday morning, you have completed your 45 hrs weekly rest.
If you want to drive said moving truck, wait until after 2pm on Sunday, with an eye on getting your 9 hours rest in after work Monday within 24hrs of driving the truck eg start 2 am Monday morning, finish work by 5pm
Hopefully madmackem has lost all interest in this thread and is joyfully packing [emoji854]
Sidevalve:
If we’re going to be pedantic, the scenario (assuming you did a bit of driving at the start) would be; bit of driving, four hours other work, one hour break. Followed by two hours other work, one hours break, six hours rest. So you still need a minimum three hours more REST before you can legally start driving again. Loading, even if it’s your own stuff, is still other work.
This is what’s silly because, who’s to say you won’t do a 15hour shift and then go home and load and unload a transit van for a 2h period cos you’re moving house?
If we’re supposed to take it seriously, that means any work you do, even if its for personal reasons would break up a 9hour daily rest period, meaning that all rest periods are basically null and void.
But of course it’s not like that… a van driver can go as much as they want and so can Mr. Trade Plates… but not a truck driver even when used for non commercial reasons…
If his journey to and from the old house to the new one is a few hours away, I would err on the side of compliance and put it on other work, however, if he’s moving his PERSONAL EFFECTS to the other side of town… I think he’s well within his moral rights to just leave it on break for 9hours even if he spent 4 hours loading it, even if legally that’s a grey area.
Having said that though, if he happens to be unlucky enough to get pulled by VOSA within 28 days he might have to explain it which could be tricky to say the least.
So with that being said… I think you’ve no choice but to comply…
stu675:
No, I don’t.
You pull your card at 5pm from your day job.
You have the whole weekend to yourself ( to load your moving truck).
You go back to work on Monday morning, you have completed your 45 hrs weekly rest.
If you want to drive said moving truck, wait until after 2pm on Sunday, with an eye on getting your 9 hours rest in after work Monday within 24hrs of driving the truck eg start 2 am Monday morning, finish work by 5pm
Hopefully madmackem has lost all interest in this thread and is joyfully packing [emoji854]
Oh dear.
He needs to show a weekly rest; which, presumably, he can reduce to 24 hours which allows him to “work” Saturday even though it’s not paid work as he has to use his digicard due to the size of the vehicle. And a point that some have missed, to record the use so that DVSA don’t start asking awkward questions of his boss. So assuming he’s got a bog standard 6am start on Monday, he needs to have finished doing the removal and taken the truck back before 6am Sunday, as I assume his boss needs it for a job on Monday. That gives him 24 hours weekly rest.
So he’s got all day Saturday to do the removal, perfectly legally; provided that he doesn’t exceed a fifteen hour spreadover. But (and this is the information we don’t have) he doesn’t say if he’s leaving the truck at his new address over Sunday; if that is the case then he’s good to go. If he’s got to take it back, it needs to be within that fifteen hour period on Saturday.
The “red herring” is his statement of six hours rest; I had, perhaps erroneously, though that he’d added it to the four hours loading (presumably set to rest) to make up a nine hour rest, thinking it qualified as a split rest. Maybe we’ll never know!
Sidevalve:
The “red herring” is his statement of six hours rest; I had, perhaps erroneously, though that he’d added it to the four hours loading (presumably set to rest) to make up a nine hour rest, thinking it qualified as a split rest. Maybe we’ll never know!
That wasn’t the OP, just me plucking a figure as an example.
“six hours rest;… added it to the four hours loading (presumably set to rest) to make up a nine hour rest,”
Yes, this. This is allowed. Loading (personal effects) is just part of one long rest period.
Sidevalve:
The “red herring” is his statement of six hours rest; I had, perhaps erroneously, though that he’d added it to the four hours loading (presumably set to rest) to make up a nine hour rest, thinking it qualified as a split rest. Maybe we’ll never know!
That wasn’t the OP, just me plucking a figure as an example.
“six hours rest;… added it to the four hours loading (presumably set to rest) to make up a nine hour rest,”
Yes, this. This is allowed. Loading (personal effects) is just part of one long rest period.
But he’s then got to drive the lorry back to the yard afterwards; and if he’s already driven it before the nine hour rest, to load at house 1 and go to house 2 he’s into a seventh shift ; which you can’t do without a 24 hour weekly rest.
flammen:
But of course it’s not like that… a van driver can go as much as they want
No they can’t! they are strictly controlled by GB regs 10 hrs driving in 11 hrs per day duty.
If his journey to and from the old house to the new one is a few hours away, I would err on the side of compliance and put it on other work,
FFS how is that compliant? driving is driving. Put card in tacho, how do you tell it it is other work when truck is moving?
however, if he’s moving his PERSONAL EFFECTS to the other side of town… I think he’s well within his moral rights to just leave it on break for 9hours even if he spent 4 hours loading it, even if legally that’s a grey area.
Not grey. It’s black & white
Having said that though, if he happens to be unlucky enough to get pulled by VOSA within 28 days he might have to explain it which could be tricky to say the least.
So with that being said… I think you’ve no choice but to comply…
Sidevalve:
The “red herring” is his statement of six hours rest; I had, perhaps erroneously, though that he’d added it to the four hours loading (presumably set to rest) to make up a nine hour rest, thinking it qualified as a split rest. Maybe we’ll never know!
That wasn’t the OP, just me plucking a figure as an example.
“six hours rest;… added it to the four hours loading (presumably set to rest) to make up a nine hour rest,”
Yes, this. This is allowed. Loading (personal effects) is just part of one long rest period.
That’s how I understand it… else how else can you do anything when you get home besides sleep?
Sidevalve:
The “red herring” is his statement of six hours rest; I had, perhaps erroneously, though that he’d added it to the four hours loading (presumably set to rest) to make up a nine hour rest, thinking it qualified as a split rest. Maybe we’ll never know!
That wasn’t the OP, just me plucking a figure as an example.
“six hours rest;… added it to the four hours loading (presumably set to rest) to make up a nine hour rest,”
Yes, this. This is allowed. Loading (personal effects) is just part of one long rest period.
But he’s then got to drive the lorry back to the yard afterwards; and if he’s already driven it before the nine hour rest, to load at house 1 and go to house 2 he’s into a seventh shift ; which you can’t do without a 24 hour weekly rest.
He might only work one day a week in the day job?
I was just trying to address the weekend and as I see it compared with a transit van removal, it will be lots of loading (rest) and not a lot of driving.
If he drives 5 days a week day job, then easily has a 6th shift available for the move.
I got bored with all the to-ing and fro-ing further up the page but I would suggest it would be worth while hiring the truck for a nominal sum from the vehicle owner. Keep a copy of the hire invoice to back up that the use on the card was personal (if you use it) or if stopped and not using it gives an explanation as to why.
The vehicle owner might want a card in to explain the missing mileage anyway
8wheels:
I got bored with all the to-ing and fro-ing further up the page but I would suggest it would be worth while hiring the truck for a nominal sum from the vehicle owner. Keep a copy of the hire invoice to back up that the use on the card was personal (if you use it) or if stopped and not using it gives an explanation as to why.
The vehicle owner might want a card in to explain the missing mileage anyway
It did get a little confusing!
As I said earlier up the page, putting the card in would cover his backside and the owner’s if DVSA came a-calling. Only takes one whiny neighbour to grass him up, especially as the lorry’s a 6-legger and therefore one presumes fairly big.
There might be insurance complications if he technically hired the vehicle and was unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident.
My take; as set out above, provided he does the whole job and takes the lorry back in time on the Saturday, records his time correctly and makes sure he compensates for the reduced weekly rest, he should be fine.
8wheels:
I got bored with all the to-ing and fro-ing further up the page but I would suggest it would be worth while hiring the truck for a nominal sum from the vehicle owner. Keep a copy of the hire invoice to back up that the use on the card was personal (if you use it) or if stopped and not using it gives an explanation as to why.
The vehicle owner might want a card in to explain the missing mileage anyway
Why bother replying if you can’t be bothered to read, and you give a wrong answer anyway? Invoice stating personal use, that is worth nothing. Advising that use of a card is optional? (if you use it)
It isn’t going to be worth renting the firm’s vehicle… Only worth doing the firm’s vehicle if it is free.
If you’re worried about being “caught”, then you’re obviously you’re doing it without boss’ consent - not a good way to go - is it?
Check out the contract hire firms…
I’m pretty sure you can still hire out trucks for as little as a single week’s contract…
With a removal firm, you are risking that they smash all your family heirlooms up after all, so why not DIY it?
You won’t save much money - but you damned well know the job is going to be done PROPERLY - 'cos its YOU doing it - right?
Imagine leaning over and kissing your beloved as you put the last packed to-the-nines item gently in the back of said hired truck, and you drive off into the sunset with her in the passenger seat, and you not risking being given the bullet for having an “Unauthorized passenger”…
8wheels:
I got bored with all the to-ing and fro-ing further up the page but I would suggest it would be worth while hiring the truck for a nominal sum from the vehicle owner. Keep a copy of the hire invoice to back up that the use on the card was personal (if you use it) or if stopped and not using it gives an explanation as to why.
The vehicle owner might want a card in to explain the missing mileage anyway
Why bother replying if you can’t be bothered to read, and you give a wrong answer anyway? Invoice stating personal use, that is worth nothing. Advising that use of a card is optional? (if you use it)
I read about half of the rest vs break debate which seemed to be spiralling in towards getting petty over wording so I didn’t bother.
Point being made was some sort of written agreement between owner and employee to cover the issue of driver driving not for work, I’m not sure of legalities of not using a card. Personally I would and take a day holiday if it messed my weekly break up. If you were not using a card, the vehicle owner may want something to cover missing mileage.
8wheels:
I got bored with all the to-ing and fro-ing further up the page but I would suggest it would be worth while hiring the truck for a nominal sum from the vehicle owner. Keep a copy of the hire invoice to back up that the use on the card was personal (if you use it) or if stopped and not using it gives an explanation as to why.
The vehicle owner might want a card in to explain the missing mileage anyway
Why bother replying if you can’t be bothered to read, and you give a wrong answer anyway? Invoice stating personal use, that is worth nothing. Advising that use of a card is optional? (if you use it)
I read about half of the rest vs break debate which seemed to be spiralling in towards getting petty over wording so I didn’t bother.
quite right too!
Point being made was some sort of written agreement between owner and employee to cover the issue of driver driving not for work, I’m not sure of legalities of not using a card. Personally I would and take a day holiday if it messed my weekly break up. If you were not using a card, the vehicle owner may want something to cover missing mileage.
It’s been pointed out further up that due to size of vehicle, there would never be an exemption from Tacho card use just because it is personal use. So any agreement would be worthless. Bit like going to hertz and asking for a car to drive at 100mph up the M1 but only for personal use so it’s not illegal.
controlled by GB regs 10 hrs driving in 11 hrs per day duty.
