Rowley010:
Shandy123:
Davhat:
Very sad to hear this, rip to the driver,
First thing you should do when coupling up is a tug test to make sure the pins locked in, if you’re happy with that, get out and check the trailer brake is on before attempting to connect the susies, I always put my dog clip in before I check the trailer brake, we all have a certain routine when coupling and uncoupling, but whatever you do, make sure the pins locked in and the trailer brake is on before you climb onto that catwalk.
Stay safe fellas.
Is there any way you could do a tug test and be fooled into thinking you’ve coupled when you’ve actually jumped the pin?
If there is, surely you’d then notice when you went to put your clip in, which surely is first thing you do as it’s next to you when you jump out of the unit
If you miss the pin, it will lodge/drop down against the leading edge of the fifth wheel. When you do your tug test, it would feel like the pin is located,(assuming you have approached the trailer perfectly straight). ALWAYS do your dog clip. If this poor fella would have bothered with his clip, he would have realised he had missed the pin 
For the sake of discussion, if you the driver have done your job correctly and applied the vehicle handbrake once you’ve coupled up to the trailer can anyone tell me what the possible ramifications of NOT having the trailer park brake could be?
the maoster:
For the sake of discussion, if you the driver have done your job correctly and applied the vehicle handbrake once you’ve coupled up to the trailer can anyone tell me what the possible ramifications of NOT having the trailer park brake could be?
Sorry mate, but I don’t get what you’re saying or asking.
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Franglais:
the maoster:
For the sake of discussion, if you the driver have done your job correctly and applied the vehicle handbrake once you’ve coupled up to the trailer can anyone tell me what the possible ramifications of NOT having the trailer park brake could be?
Sorry mate, but I don’t get what you’re saying or asking.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
That’ll be the Wetherspoons cheap ale 
. What I’m saying is that there is an awful lot of hysteria regarding trailer brakes where people have without question swallowed the line that it is almost akin to ■■■■■■ to not apply the trailer brake. My position is that if you are even halfway competent you will apply the vehicle handbrake before getting out of the cab and it will not matter one iota whether or not the trailer brake is applied.
If you’re not halfway competent; well that’s what the annual Darwin awards are for!
the maoster:
Franglais:
the maoster:
For the sake of discussion, if you the driver have done your job correctly and applied the vehicle handbrake once you’ve coupled up to the trailer can anyone tell me what the possible ramifications of NOT having the trailer park brake could be?
Sorry mate, but I don’t get what you’re saying or asking.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
That’ll be the Wetherspoons cheap ale . What I’m saying is that there is an awful lot of hysteria regarding trailer brakes where people have without question swallowed the line that it is almost akin to ■■■■■■ to not apply the trailer brake. My position is that if you are even halfway competent you will apply the vehicle handbrake before getting out of the cab and it will not matter one iota whether or not the trailer brake is applied.
If you’re not halfway competent; well that’s what the annual Darwin awards are for!
The problem in this case was even though the vehicle handbrake was on (assuming) and the trailer handbrake off, as soon as he connected the red line the trailer brakes would release and having the pin at the leading edge of the fifth wheel or if he had over ridden it completely the trailer would then move forward if on a slight decline which it must have been.
Radar19:
The trailers don’t have the trailer brake on because it’s a Ro-Ro terminal. They actively ask you not to use them. It’s written in big letters at Dockside.
In that case the Dft and the local Council should prosecute the idiots! It is for our safety ffs. So if it costs a few minutes so what. This industry is a master at getting people to work at 90mph but pays poor wages and has scant regard for H&S.
When you’ve lost someone killed as I have in a transport accident it lives with you forever. A totally needless death. Improper coupling procedure compounded by an unsafe system of work. Very sad.
Sand Fisher:
Radar19:
The trailers don’t have the trailer brake on because it’s a Ro-Ro terminal. They actively ask you not to use them. It’s written in big letters at Dockside.
In that case the Dft and the local Council should prosecute the idiots! It is for our safety ffs. So if it costs a few minutes so what. This industry is a master at getting people to work at 90mph but pays poor wages and has scant regard for H&S.
When you’ve lost someone killed as I have in a transport accident it lives with you forever. A totally needless death. Improper coupling procedure compounded by an unsafe system of work. Very sad.
We have around 50 odd tilts in our yard at any one time and on busy periods have three shunters, we all know not to but for the benefit of visiting drivers in very large red letters in three languages are the signs ‘Do Not Apply Trailer Brake’. Yes i know it refutes coupling rules as such but Its more common than you might think…
AndrewG:
The problem in this case was even though the vehicle handbrake was on (assuming) and the trailer handbrake off, as soon as he connected the red line the trailer brakes would release and having the pin at the leading edge of the fifth wheel or if he had over ridden it completely the trailer would then move forward if on a slight decline which it must have been.
I’ve just had a phone call from my technical advisor (take a bow EB) and he correctly pointed out to me that in this case the guy had shot the pin (I really should learn to read the previous posts properly) so in this case I can see why the trailer brake not being on would cause the problem.
That does raise a couple of issues though; as my mate pointed out, if he’d attempted to engage the fifth wheel clip prior to putting the air lines on he’d have seen immediately that it wasn’t coupled correctly, also Without the airlines on the trailer brakes are engaged and putting the red line on should make no difference, the brakes should still be on if, and it’s a big if the unit handbrake is applied.
the maoster:
Franglais:
the maoster:
For the sake of discussion, if you the driver have done your job correctly and applied the vehicle handbrake once you’ve coupled up to the trailer can anyone tell me what the possible ramifications of NOT having the trailer park brake could be?
Sorry mate, but I don’t get what you’re saying or asking.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
That’ll be the Wetherspoons cheap ale . What I’m saying is that there is an awful lot of hysteria regarding trailer brakes where people have without question swallowed the line that it is almost akin to ■■■■■■ to not apply the trailer brake. My position is that if you are even halfway competent you will apply the vehicle handbrake before getting out of the cab and it will not matter one iota whether or not the trailer brake is applied.
If you’re not halfway competent; well that’s what the annual Darwin awards are for!
I do understand what you’re getting at, but as humans even the best of us get distracted, or is under pressure, complacent (I know we’re not supposed to be, but even the best of us can make a mistake)
I’m sure if you got honest answers, almost every driver here with a few years experience has made a slight ■■■■ up of coupling or uncoupling a trailer at least once, mostly it’s leads to no more than a bit of embarrassment, bent metal and a wake up call. the Trailer brake is just another safety feature, that can save your arse when you ■■■■ up.
Shandy123:
Davhat:
Very sad to hear this, rip to the driver,
First thing you should do when coupling up is a tug test to make sure the pins locked in, if you’re happy with that, get out and check the trailer brake is on before attempting to connect the susies, I always put my dog clip in before I check the trailer brake, we all have a certain routine when coupling and uncoupling, but whatever you do, make sure the pins locked in and the trailer brake is on before you climb onto that catwalk.
Stay safe fellas.
Is there any way you could do a tug test and be fooled into thinking you’ve coupled when you’ve actually jumped the pin?
if you missed it completely and put the 5th wheel behind it,then you couldnt tug it forward as it would be jammed from moving forward…by that time,you would be close coupled to the expent that you would need to be anorexic to wriggle into the gap…which apparantly is what he did??
AndrewG:
Sand Fisher:
Radar19:
The trailers don’t have the trailer brake on because it’s a Ro-Ro terminal. They actively ask you not to use them. It’s written in big letters at Dockside.
In that case the Dft and the local Council should prosecute the idiots! It is for our safety ffs. So if it costs a few minutes so what. This industry is a master at getting people to work at 90mph but pays poor wages and has scant regard for H&S.
When you’ve lost someone killed as I have in a transport accident it lives with you forever. A totally needless death. Improper coupling procedure compounded by an unsafe system of work. Very sad.
We have around 50 odd tilts in our yard at any one time and on busy periods have three shunters, we all know not to but for the benefit of visiting drivers in very large red letters in three languages are the signs ‘Do Not Apply Trailer Brake’. Yes i know it refutes coupling rules as such but Its more common than you might think…
Hi Andy, I can imagine but…
Ever since my beloved dad was killed serving on board a tanker which blew up in 1970 I have lived with the perils of industrial accidents. He lost his life despite writing to his employer telling them that the stripping lines were shot and should be replaced. They were used in tank cleaning to transfer waste product from a tank to be cleaned to the waste/slop tank.
Because they were shot the mate used an unsafe method of transferring these slops and a static electric charge ignited the gaseous tank and 400 feet of deck plating went over the centrecastle and the port side blown out. 9 men were killed.
Now had the employer fixed the pipes the mate would not have used an unsafe work practice. But no, the company wanted to save money. Sounds familiar?
Sadly I watch Aircraft Investigation. I have an interest to see how accidents happen and how they can be avoided. In many instances they occur because of often 3 issues. It is that culmination which causes the accident.
In this instance it appears from what people have written that
a) there was? a don’t apply trailer brake rule
b) the driver failed to use the suspension raising technique (would have avoided the pin riding over the top of the 5th wheel)
c) his hearing was xxxx because you can hear when a pin is connecting properly
d) failed to look under the plate and apply the clip before putting on the air lines.
Had he done any of these the accident probably wouldn’t have happened.
Now a month or so ago I screwed up a coupling because I forget the air suspension thing. And the reason, when I started we didn’t have it and it was hard wired in my bonce! I have now modified my procedure and that’s the way I do it. Luckily I didn’t banjax the pin, the truck or the trailer but hey ho you live and learn by your mistakes. Sadly this lad didn’t get another chance.
Understand entirely your well put point but as ever a lot of this kind of thing is just down to time/money saving by management …until that is it all goes wrong…
another issue, which drivers create. all theses drivers who cut corners cause issues for drivers who do not.
driver A does not put brake on, Driver B does, lets see, driver B causes the issues because the shunter cries or driver B is known as a troublemaker sticking to the rules.
I have empathy for the driver, but why on earth did he not check the pin. when I used to drive, I would check trailer including Park brake ensuring it was ON if it was not I would put it on before anything else.
I used to back up unit, check the pin was in the jaw and it was not going to overshoot then I would back up listen for click 2 tugs, then clip. use a torch to ensure.
Basic and simple every time, screw if I was told drive the load is late etc. my licence my life. sadly, there are plenty of drivers out there will always cut corners and this poor soul paid with his life, I wouldn’t give a flying hoot if a sign says leave brake off … it goes on let the next driver or shunter release it … I think drivers should be sacked if they leave it off.
the maoster:
AndrewG:
The problem in this case was even though the vehicle handbrake was on (assuming) and the trailer handbrake off, as soon as he connected the red line the trailer brakes would release and having the pin at the leading edge of the fifth wheel or if he had over ridden it completely the trailer would then move forward if on a slight decline which it must have been.
I’ve just had a phone call from my technical advisor (take a bow EB) and he correctly pointed out to me that in this case the guy had shot the pin (I really should learn to read the previous posts properly) so in this case I can see why the trailer brake not being on would cause the problem.
That does raise a couple of issues though; as my mate pointed out, if he’d attempted to engage the fifth wheel clip prior to putting the air lines on he’d have seen immediately that it wasn’t coupled correctly, also Without the airlines on the trailer brakes are engaged and putting the red line on should make no difference, the brakes should still be on if, and it’s a big if the unit handbrake is applied.
Some handbrakes in tractor unts do engage the trailer brakes, some don’t. Also, if red line connected first that’ll knock off trailer spring brakes straight away. Guess your technical advisor has been the same brew as you?
As Sandfisher correctly ooints out many accidents have multiple false steps associated with them. That’s why there’s thankfully no more, but here there is one fault that may or may not have saved a life, putting on of handbrakes when dropping trailers-
we can’t say that is all that was wrong, but we CAN say it MAY have saved a life. It may be laziness by some drivers or greed by employers trying to save one minute per dropped trailer. Saying it’s widespread DOESN’T make it right.
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AndrewG:
Sand Fisher:
Radar19:
The trailers don’t have the trailer brake on because it’s a Ro-Ro terminal. They actively ask you not to use them. It’s written in big letters at Dockside.
In that case the Dft and the local Council should prosecute the idiots! It is for our safety ffs. So if it costs a few minutes so what. This industry is a master at getting people to work at 90mph but pays poor wages and has scant regard for H&S.
When you’ve lost someone killed as I have in a transport accident it lives with you forever. A totally needless death. Improper coupling procedure compounded by an unsafe system of work. Very sad.
We have around 50 odd tilts in our yard at any one time and on busy periods have three shunters, we all know not to but for the benefit of visiting drivers in very large red letters in three languages are the signs ‘Do Not Apply Trailer Brake’. Yes i know it refutes coupling rules as such but Its more common than you might think…
That’s ok leaving all the brakes off as long as all the drivers know they’ll be off and get into a habit like I have of checking the trailer brake is on before starting to do anything it takes seconds.
Franglais:
the maoster:
AndrewG:
The problem in this case was even though the vehicle handbrake was on (assuming) and the trailer handbrake off, as soon as he connected the red line the trailer brakes would release and having the pin at the leading edge of the fifth wheel or if he had over ridden it completely the trailer would then move forward if on a slight decline which it must have been.
I’ve just had a phone call from my technical advisor (take a bow EB) and he correctly pointed out to me that in this case the guy had shot the pin (I really should learn to read the previous posts properly) so in this case I can see why the trailer brake not being on would cause the problem.
That does raise a couple of issues though; as my mate pointed out, if he’d attempted to engage the fifth wheel clip prior to putting the air lines on he’d have seen immediately that it wasn’t coupled correctly, also Without the airlines on the trailer brakes are engaged and putting the red line on should make no difference, the brakes should still be on if, and it’s a big if the unit handbrake is applied.
Some handbrakes in tractor unts do engage the trailer brakes, some don’t. Also, if red line connected first that’ll knock off trailer spring brakes straight away. Guess your technical advisor has been the same brew as you?
As Sandfisher correctly ooints out many accidents have multiple false steps associated with them. That’s why there’s thankfully no more, but here there is one fault that may or may not have saved a life, putting on of handbrakes when dropping trailers-
we can’t say that is all that was wrong, but we CAN say it MAY have saved a life. It may be laziness by some drivers or greed by employers trying to save one minute per dropped trailer. Saying it’s widespread DOESN’T make it right.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
In this case, the thing that cost the chap his life was failing to ensure the pin was located correctly, NOT the trailer brake. If he had put the dog clip in, the trailer brake being on or off was irrelevant.
AndrewG:
Sand Fisher:
Radar19:
The trailers don’t have the trailer brake on because it’s a Ro-Ro terminal. They actively ask you not to use them. It’s written in big letters at Dockside.
In that case the Dft and the local Council should prosecute the idiots! It is for our safety ffs. So if it costs a few minutes so what. This industry is a master at getting people to work at 90mph but pays poor wages and has scant regard for H&S.
When you’ve lost someone killed as I have in a transport accident it lives with you forever. A totally needless death. Improper coupling procedure compounded by an unsafe system of work. Very sad.
We have around 50 odd tilts in our yard at any one time and on busy periods have three shunters, we all know not to but for the benefit of visiting drivers in very large red letters in three languages are the signs ‘Do Not Apply Trailer Brake’. Yes i know it refutes coupling rules as such but Its more common than you might think…
I’d still apply it. Bollock me, kick me off site, refuse to load me whatever. I’d just phone my company and tell them that I’m being refused due to not being comfortable with leaving my trailer brake off. Let them sort it out then.
The problem wasn’t the park brake the problem was he missed the pin and didn’t check sorry but this parking brake issue is side stepping the the fact the driver did not know he shot the pin. Surely its the first thing you look at when you get out of the cab its in your line of sight.
our newer trailers brake automatically comes on when red line is detached anyway and when a line is reconnected you still have to go and turn the brake off, so if it’s because the shhhter is too lazy to get out and do it then he’d still have to anyway with a load of our trailers!
Rowley010:
I’d still apply it. Bollock me, kick me off site, refuse to load me whatever. I’d just phone my company and tell them that I’m being refused due to not being comfortable with leaving my trailer brake off. Let them sort it out then.
With H&S being non existant at our sites (very very few mishaps btw) you woudnt get bollocked or kicked off our site, the sign is merely to save time for the shunters and if a brake is left on its not an issue… 