I had Volvo’s, Scania, and a Daf before I drove a RoadTrain, and it was like stepping back in time. Half an hour for the design team to walk round the motor show would have told them they were lacking a bit for the time period. You only have to compair what the rest of Europe had to offer at the time to see what operators and drivers expected. If I had to compair it with anything the DAf Space cab I had was a bit plastic but still a head of the R/T in all the other departments, I would say it was about on par with a Steyr, or at best a base model Berliet.
The one I had was fitted with a Spicer box which was woe full to say the least, I would regard the engine to have been gutless, and the back axle sounded like it was trying to continously destroy it’s self. Even pulling a fridge the ride was choppy.
My mate had one with the high roof which continously leeked, he had to put on an F12 when he neaded another driver as he couldn’t get any one to take it out, and by his own admition a second hand Volvo was miles in front of his new Road Train.
Having said that one of the Astran subbies had a Scammell version of the T 45 which got along quite well.
I really would like to say something good about it but I can’t, perhaps I just had a bad one!!!
When was the T45 intended to be launched? I have heard 1975(?) and, more likely, 1978?
When it eventually arrived, in 1980, manufacturing costs seemed to have been pared to the bone, as if Leyland’s financial problems were at the forefront of the designers’ minds. Having made a perfectionist’s job of the detail design and styling, they then skimped on the perceived quality of the interior fittings. Did it not occur to Leyland’s marketing men, that plush materials in the cab adds more to the retail price than it does to the building cost? They had the 1978 Volvo F10 and 1970 Berliet to look at. Scania had a carpets-and-velour option from 1975- maybe Leyland could have done it this way, allowing the supermarkets, fuel distributors et al the option of a no-frills package at the same time.
The same goes for the gearbox. The only reason for selecting the Spicer 'box, over the universally-liked Fuller, must have been cost. One can imagine the Fuller salesman quoting their normal price, while Spicer would have been extra-keen to get into Europe, given that their products were not previously available in top-weight vehicles over here.
What about the suspension? I read that the pusher-axle 6x2 had a clever arrangement of springs, which apportioned the load onto the lazy axle according to the imposed load on the fifth wheel. Was this innovation the source of the choppy ride, or were 4x2 versions bad too?
Lawrence Dunbar:
0Nothing choppy about the suspension on this motor, Plus it had the Eaton Twin Splitter Box, No problems at all, Regards Larry.
Maybe thats because its not strictly a ‘T45’ is it ? Not much of its leyland dna left in these was there ? & Daf werent obviously impressed with them were they ?
I had 2 Scammell Roadtrain 6x2 T45s, a 1984 and a 1986, the 1984 one had continual problems with the radiator leaking and had 3 replacements while under warranty. It leaked again at 15 months old but after much ‘discussion’ with Hargreaves I was supplied with another new one FOC but this one had a modification and was never a problem again. The Spicer box was absolute rubbish as it wasn’t quick enough and left me stranded out of gear a time or two (I was used to the Crusader with the Fuller box). I found it incredibly difficult to adjust the brakes as the adjusters were very hard to get to (even with my special bendy socket I bought for the job). The 1986 one came with a Fuller box (my specification) and was better altogether, although it mysteriously lost it’s drive one day. I got out of the cab with engine running and in gear with the handbrake on to see the prop shaft spinning round - engaging the diff lock allowed me to get it home though. The problem was the annulus gear in the reduction hub that had been moving sideways until it wore a groove in the hub endplate and moved far enough to drop out of mesh with the planet gears - that took some diagnosing!
Overall I liked the motors although they weren’t as driver friendly as the foreign motors of the day they were a ‘mans wagon’ and very gutsy. I remember when I got the 1st one in 1984 they weren’t very common and the 320 ■■■■■■■ pulled really well, as I proved by overtaking a 141 Scania going up Windy Hill while loaded to 38 tonnes. The Scania driver saw me coming and cupped his ear in his hand as if to suggest my motor was screaming, but just at that point I slipped it into top gear and disappointed him immensely!
I’m sure that Leyland could have improved it a great deal but DAF took over about then and pushed the 95 instead as their lead product.
I can post some pictures when I can find them.
splitshift:
I had a T45 Constructor 8 tipper it would still hold its own today nearly 25 years on! no speed limiter, analogue tacho, crack on freight up & toe down
stevecook:
I had 2 Scammell Roadtrain 6x2 T45s, a 1984 and a 1986, the 1984 one had continual problems with the radiator leaking and had 3 replacements while under warranty. It leaked again at 15 months old but after much ‘discussion’ with Hargreaves I was supplied with another new one FOC but this one had a modification and was never a problem again. The Spicer box was absolute rubbish as it wasn’t quick enough and left me stranded out of gear a time or two (I was used to the Crusader with the Fuller box). I found it incredibly difficult to adjust the brakes as the adjusters were very hard to get to (even with my special bendy socket I bought for the job). The 1986 one came with a Fuller box (my specification) and was better altogether, although it mysteriously lost it’s drive one day. I got out of the cab with engine running and in gear with the handbrake on to see the prop shaft spinning round - engaging the diff lock allowed me to get it home though. The problem was the annulus gear in the reduction hub that had been moving sideways until it wore a groove in the hub endplate and moved far enough to drop out of mesh with the planet gears - that took some diagnosing!
Overall I liked the motors although they weren’t as driver friendly as the foreign motors of the day they were a ‘mans wagon’ and very gutsy. I remember when I got the 1st one in 1984 they weren’t very common and the 320 ■■■■■■■ pulled really well, as I proved by overtaking a 141 Scania going up Windy Hill while loaded to 38 tonnes. The Scania driver saw me coming and cupped his ear in his hand as if to suggest my motor was screaming, but just at that point I slipped it into top gear and disappointed him immensely!
I’m sure that Leyland could have improved it a great deal but DAF took over about then and pushed the 95 instead as their lead product.
I can post some pictures when I can find them.
Interesting stuff Steve,i never drove a T45 but always thought Leyland never went far enough with it.The cab interior could have been so much better and why did they launch it with the spicer box.If they wanted to compete with the europeans why didnt they offer a synchro box as an option to the obvious choice of 9/13 speed Fullers? What chassis were the 6 x2 Scammells based on ,were they a true Scammell or a stretched 4 x 2 chassis.?
Think at the time t45 came out they where the only unit to be able to tow a 40 foot trailer, because of there sort design.
Family had x reg tl12 engine replaced with 340li RR. when tag axle fitted. Engine came from RR Shrewsbury and ticketed by dave Huxley to 375.
Had 6x2 e reg. 350■■■■■■■ flying machine. Used to make me laugh when you went by the big Volvo,s ana scania,s and they never flashed you in
Also a 6x2 f reg 350 RR le also very good. Uncle still got new 410 tx in workshop
Have to get dave put some pictures up.
escortg3:
Think at the time t45 came out they where the only unit to be able to tow a 40 foot trailer, because of there sort design.
Family had x reg tl12 engine replaced with 340li RR. when tag axle fitted. Engine came from RR Shrewsbury and ticketed by dave Huxley to 375.
Had 6x2 e reg. 350■■■■■■■ flying machine. Used to make me laugh when you went by the big Volvo,s ana scania,s and they never flashed you in
Also a 6x2 f reg 350 RR le also very good. Uncle still got new 410 tx in workshop
Have to get dave put some pictures up.
Leylend made a lot in transport.
You get the photo’s Andrew, I will put them on as soon as my main puter is sorted.
Cheers Dave.
Evening Gentlemen, well this "new book " thing sounds very dubious! A bit like all these "johnny come lately " poor quality journalistic types trying to gain cheap knowledge to me!
86 , I owned 12 T45 TL12s, and they were great. Performed inside budget, and made me money. By 91 I had owned and operated over200 Leyland products, and all ran inside budget, (and many Swedish products did not). Then of course our stupid politicians had “given away” “our”, (and I speak as a taxpayer), company to those inebriates at DAF, …and the rest is history…it is said “you get the politicians you deserve”… are we really that stupid!!!
stevecook:
I had 2 Scammell Roadtrain 6x2 T45s, a 1984 and a 1986, the 1984 one had continual problems with the radiator leaking and had 3 replacements while under warranty. It leaked again at 15 months old but after much ‘discussion’ with Hargreaves I was supplied with another new one FOC but this one had a modification and was never a problem again. The Spicer box was absolute rubbish as it wasn’t quick enough and left me stranded out of gear a time or two (I was used to the Crusader with the Fuller box). I found it incredibly difficult to adjust the brakes as the adjusters were very hard to get to (even with my special bendy socket I bought for the job). The 1986 one came with a Fuller box (my specification) and was better altogether, although it mysteriously lost it’s drive one day. I got out of the cab with engine running and in gear with the handbrake on to see the prop shaft spinning round - engaging the diff lock allowed me to get it home though. The problem was the annulus gear in the reduction hub that had been moving sideways until it wore a groove in the hub endplate and moved far enough to drop out of mesh with the planet gears - that took some diagnosing!
Overall I liked the motors although they weren’t as driver friendly as the foreign motors of the day they were a ‘mans wagon’ and very gutsy. I remember when I got the 1st one in 1984 they weren’t very common and the 320 ■■■■■■■ pulled really well, as I proved by overtaking a 141 Scania going up Windy Hill while loaded to 38 tonnes. The Scania driver saw me coming and cupped his ear in his hand as if to suggest my motor was screaming, but just at that point I slipped it into top gear and disappointed him immensely!
I’m sure that Leyland could have improved it a great deal but DAF took over about then and pushed the 95 instead as their lead product.
I can post some pictures when I can find them.
Interesting stuff Steve,i never drove a T45 but always thought Leyland never went far enough with it.The cab interior could have been so much better and why did they launch it with the spicer box.If they wanted to compete with the europeans why didnt they offer a synchro box as an option to the obvious choice of 9/13 speed Fullers? What chassis were the 6 x2 Scammells based on ,were they a true Scammell or a stretched 4 x 2 chassis.?
The chassis was I think proper Scammell, I visited British Steel at Brinsworth in 1985 and saw one of Harrisons bonneted Scammells there and I compared the two - the spring hangers were even the same!
i drove this scammell for high tensile/kebrell fasteners darlaston.it was originally owned by scammell motors watford.when tollpits closed i went down and fetched ex stock out.it attracted some attention off the workers who kept giving me bits and bobs to put on it,but they hadnt got a scammell name panel for the front.cant remember the engine size but it was a six speed scammell box and a lovely ride.
Interesting stuff indeed Steve.
I can’t see too well from the photos but did they have Maudsley diffs?
I found their quality control to be appalling and had trouble with Maudsley hubs.
cargo:
Interesting stuff indeed Steve.
I can’t see too well from the photos but did they have Maudsley diffs?
I found their quality control to be appalling and had trouble with Maudsley hubs.
No they were Leyland axles, same as they used on the Crusaders.
