Franglais:
Where have I ever said drivers are overpaid or shouldn’t have a decent pay rise?
When you said that you supported remaining in the eu.
Just park this little gem here…
I don’t know if you’ve been living under a rock for the last fifteen years or so, but the reason for the stagnation in wages since 2004 was the influx of workers from eastern Europe and the reason that wages have risen so substantially this year is because they have now departed. It’s not rocket science.
But like all devout Remainers, the eu is like a religion to you. It’s like trying to explain to a devout Christian that the world wasn’t created in six days, four thousand years ago. A complete and total waste of time.
Da management (to paraphrase them two comedians who’s name escapes me) have just imposed a £5k increase on our basic without any union urging. Obviously I’ll accept that with good grace, but I wonder if the Brexit percentages had been the other way around wether I’d have received this? Hmm, tricky one.
To be fair, there are a mixture of factors causing the wage rises. As well as EU drivers who are no longer here, there was a spell where no driving tests were being carried out. There have been murmurings that IR35 is a reason why drivers may have either left the industry or the country. Not sure about that one, but there may be some truth, I don’t know.
Whatever is the case (or a combination of), the transport industry hasn’t been taking the responsibility it should for training and developing new entrants. This has had the effect of giving a temporary boon to drivers’ wages. This is not because of anyone suddenly acknowledging the job that drivers do, it is simply a case of having to pay to keep drivers.
It isn’t a particularly skilled job (although it does have its pitfalls). It is however reasonably high risk and is very antisocial in terms of long hours, times of the day worked and also sleeping in the truck away from family. I would argue that it is also a very responsible job, because one momentary lapse in concentration can be catastrophic.
The pay rates now being achieved are probably more commensurate with everything I have mentioned, but the reasoning behind the rate increases is simply demand and supply, rather than acknowledgement of the job itself. I am fairly sure that the high heidyins pay through gritted teeth, while all the while looking down their nose at the (perceivedly unwashed) blue collar workers beneath.
As we know, it is never about paying what the job is worth, but paying as little as can be gotten away with and still fill positions.
Harry Monk:
I can understand anyone being in favour of eu membership if it had not had a detrimental effect on them. What I cannot understand is why any employee HGV driver would take a pro-Remain stance. These unprecedented pay rises that we are seeing are entirely consistent with what I and other Brexit supporters predicted would happen post-Brexit and are going some way towards reversing the decline in our wages and living standards since 2004.
It seems that some TruckNet members are so altruistic that they would sooner work for the minimum wage than see Tarquin and Jemima pay an extra 10p for a Kumquat or Kiwi fruit smoothie. Perhaps Franglais should offer his services to the road transport industry on a voluntary basis, as folk do on preserved steam railways.
Is your use of the word “altruistic” a polite way of saying “dumb” ?
The reason you cannot understand why any employee HGV driver would take a pro-Remain stance is because I expect - much like me - you struggle to believe that people can actually be so mind-bogglingly dumb. As I discussed with another member via PM just recently, I always knew there were a lot of dumb people in the world, but Brexit and (especially) the Covaids hoax has demonstrated how insanely effective television programming is to brainwash and mind control people into believing absolutely everything the government tells them.
Harry Monk:
I can understand anyone being in favour of eu membership if it had not had a detrimental effect on them. What I cannot understand is why any employee HGV driver would take a pro-Remain stance. These unprecedented pay rises that we are seeing are entirely consistent with what I and other Brexit supporters predicted would happen post-Brexit and are going some way towards reversing the decline in our wages and living standards since 2004.
It seems that some TruckNet members are so altruistic that they would sooner work for the minimum wage than see Tarquin and Jemima pay an extra 10p for a Kumquat or Kiwi fruit smoothie. Perhaps Franglais should offer his services to the road transport industry on a voluntary basis, as folk do on preserved steam railways.
How does “it seem so” to you?
Where have I ever said drivers are overpaid or shouldn’t have a decent pay rise?
I voted remain as I was perfectly happy how my life was , 2 x 2 week hols abroad , 4 bedroom house paid for years ago , 2 newish cars , savings etc , we were going to pack up & go & live abroad but brexit put paid to that , and as for all these pay rises , I was informed by txt of mine & it clearly said temporary , we will see how it goes , it didn’t say permanent
As for all you brexiters knew this would happen , show me all these posts from before the referendum stating this ? , I can’t remember anyone ever saying that , maybe I’m wrong but I’d like to see these threads .
They were there, but you won’t see them now because all the bitter remainers got sand in their sponge and reported them for being waysis and so they got deleted.
You’re another dumb one, although in fairness to you at least you give us a prior heads-up via your username. All these holidays abroad, new cars and savings - who do you think pays for it all? Where is the money coming from for it?
Even the dumbest person should have figured out by now that Labour’s modus operandi is simply to give everyone free stuff and kick the debt can 5 years down the road when they’re no longer in power and then it’s someone else’s problem to figure out how to pay for it all. Of course, lefties don’t care for any of these truths, they just want the free stuffs that the nice Labour party bloke has promised them.
I never saw a post saying brexit will put uk hgv driver wages up - not one. Why on earth would it? Migration is still at the same rate its been for the last 20 years there are just more migrants from other places rather than EE.
The wages going up is down to covid and ir35.
And however bad labour were nothing compares to the utter shambles of austerity - tories lining their pockets on the backs of the poor and the nhs. The day a tory gives a flying one about any hgv drivers wage will be the first.
Franglais:
Where have I ever said drivers are overpaid or shouldn’t have a decent pay rise?
When you said that you supported remaining in the eu.
Just park this little gem here…
I don’t know if you’ve been living under a rock for the last fifteen years or so, but the reason for the stagnation in wages since 2004 was the influx of workers from eastern Europe and the reason that wages have risen so substantially this year is because they have now departed. It’s not rocket science.
But like all devout Remainers, the eu is like a religion to you. It’s like trying to explain to a devout Christian that the world wasn’t created in six days, four thousand years ago. A complete and total waste of time.
But no hard feelings. Enjoy the pay increases.
Wages have been falling since 1979 (maybe since 1976 when the “free market for the poor, socialism for the rich” IMF took over our economic policy in return for a loan) The whole point of economic policy for the last 40 years is to drive down wages and increase profit for the wealthy. Thats why the first thing thatcher did was destroy the unions.
Migration had an effect but if you think without it we would all have been on 20 an hour by now you are dreaming. The financial crash had a bigger effect than migration.
Come back in 5 or 10 years and see how pay is then - that will show if brexit was responsible for wage increases or not. Migration will soon be bigger than it ever was - tory bosses will demand it - soon you will be competing for jobs with hgv drivers from Karachi and Kabul. There will be carnage on the road but no boss cares about anyone else - so unless his family gets wiped out its every man for himself.
The “free market for the rich” economics are interesting when you look at pay - if you are a CEO then you get paid massive bonus’s in your pay because lots of money “motivates the rich to work harder”. If you are poor they cut your money because “being skint motivates the poor to work harder”.
If being skint makes you work harder - why not cut CEO pay to the bone? They will all “work harder” then wont they? All those 18 stone CEOs with their big floppy bellys will really show us how to go to work lol
JeffA:
I never saw a post saying brexit will put uk hgv driver wages up - not one.
You never saw one post saying that the primary cause of wage stagnation in the UK transport industry was the supply of cheap labour from eastern Europe and the solution was to leave the eu? Are you sure?
JeffA:
The wages going up is down to covid and ir35.
So why are Remoaners blaming Brexit for empty supermarket shelves?
I don’t know if you’ve been living under a rock for the last fifteen years or so, but the reason for the stagnation in wages since 2004 was the influx of workers from eastern Europe and the reason that wages have risen so substantially this year is because they have now departed. It’s not rocket science.
But like all devout Remainers, the eu is like a religion to you. It’s like trying to explain to a devout Christian that the world wasn’t created in six days, four thousand years ago. A complete and total waste of time.
But no hard feelings. Enjoy the pay increases.
[/quote]
Wages have been falling since 1979. The whole point of economic policy for the last 40 years is to drive down wages and increase profit for the wealthy. Thats why the first thing thatcher did was destroy the unions.
Migration had an effect but if you think without it we would all have been on 20 an hour by now you are dreaming. The financial crash had a bigger effect than migration.
Come back in 5 or 10 years and see how pay is then - that will show if brexit was responsible for wage increases or not.
[/quote]
It’s about supply and demand nothing else.
If someone is in demand you get paid more if your not in demand you get paid less simple.
We could go back to the great depression and world war 2 won’t make any difference to the supply and demand of a driver in Sept 2021.
I don’t see what’s so unbelievable about getting paid £20 a hour.
Brick layer is on over 250 a day just now 7 hours.
Digger driver 18-20 a hour. 1 week course and your away.
The fact of the matter is haulage companies have been getting away with paying £9 a hour for 20 years is there is more supply and can fill seats.
Now there is less supply so need to pay more.
JeffA:
I never saw a post saying brexit will put uk hgv driver wages up - not one.
You never saw one post saying that the primary cause of wage stagnation in the UK transport industry was the supply of cheap labour from eastern Europe and the solution was to leave the eu? Are you sure?
Yeah Ive seen posts saying that but Ive never seen a post saying “after brexit wages will go thru the roof for hgv drivers within 6 months”. Was there one? If there was whoever wrote it is the best economist in the country - because there isnt anyone who predicted this. Not a soul.
Not as simple as supply and demand - if you are the boss you pay you and your buddies more money. Thats why renumeration boards for executives at companies award themselves enormous pay rises and pensions year on year. When you get the whiphand you look after number one. We learned that all the most valuable jobs are the poorest paid during covid. Somehow the system is distorted so they get paid the least.
JeffA:
Not as simple as supply and demand - if you are the boss you pay you and your buddies more money. Thats why renumeration boards for executives at companies award themselves enormous pay rises and pensions year on year. When you get the whiphand you look after number one. We learned that all the most valuable jobs are the poorest paid during covid. Somehow the system is distorted so they get paid the least.
Mate we are talking about the general workforce.
Not the CEO of Amazon or Google.
Again it’s all supply and demand in the general workforce.
there is no distortment about it.
You go to uni become a Manager then move up in the world.
You start as a shovler in a job become the supervisor of the shovler. if you have something between the ears you go in the office and work your way up to gen manager.
The more you go up the more your paid simple.
When a huge amount of people in hospitality are sitting at home not getting paid and need a job. stacking shelves in Tescos has huge supply of applications.
If you have a constant flow of cheap labour with licences ready to go you dont need to pay any higher as there is a unlimited supply of labour. Turn the tap off and ■■■■ hits the fan like now.
Whether it’s brexit or IR35 or covid, better money else where.
You have a short supply of drivers now for the job vaccainces avaible.
If it wasn’t about the supply of EE drivers why are the companies and RHA screaming and crying at the government trying to get emergency visas sorted?
How do you expain how things changed under thatcherism tho? A bank manager might have earned five times more than a Hgv driver in 1976 - by 2006 he was earning 50-100 times more. Its not just the system you describe - there would have been no reason to destroy the unions if pay was based solely on merit.
And theres 515,000 british people with a hgv license in the country already - plenty of cheap labour.
JeffA:
I never saw a post saying brexit will put uk hgv driver wages up - not one.
You never saw one post saying that the primary cause of wage stagnation in the UK transport industry was the supply of cheap labour from eastern Europe and the solution was to leave the eu? Are you sure?
JeffA:
The wages going up is down to covid and ir35.
So why are Remoaners blaming Brexit for empty supermarket shelves?
JeffA:
How do you expain how things changed under thatcherism tho? A bank manager might have earned five times more than a Hgv driver in 1976 - by 2006 he was earning 50-100 times more. Its not just the system you describe - there would have been no reason to destroy the unions if pay was based solely on merit.
And theres 515,000 british people with a hgv license in the country already - plenty of cheap labour.
privatisation.
Everything got sold out and changed from social to thatcherism.
It wasn’t aboit greed in the 70s and 80s. do you not see the social change. if you have lived on council estates you would see it yourself.now it’s a free for all and only the strongest make there money and they week are on £9 a hour. well thats how Thatcher sees it.
How do you explain a miner was cheap labour in 1960-70s to the best paying jobs in places like OZ now.
How do you explain my uncle was a miner on buttons in Scotland till he was 35 got laid off immigrated and now on over a million as GM in the pits in OZ. The system works if your lucky work hard you will earn more money.
My dad worked with MOD for 25 years in docks got laid off and made a fortune in 90s in power stations as contractor.
My dad was clearing 500 min in the 90s when houses cost 15-20k to buy.
But again if your in a trade not in demand then salary will be low to it’s in demand.
Sure it’s always possible for the odd person to get good money - I’m sure there were one or two HGV drivers during the last ten years earning good money - but the share of economic output going on wages has shrank every decade since the seventies - someones getting more money and it ain’t the plebs - it’s going to executives instead.
The 80s wern’t about greed? How old are you moocher? Don’t you remember Harry Enfield “Loadsamoney”? All the city of London types in red braces? Fat cat pay? Gas executives becoming millionaires overnight for doing absolutely nothing after they gave away all the publicly owned utilities? “Tell Sid if you see him?”. Greed is all I remember about the 80s (apart from seeing my first ■■■■■■)
Work has changed enormously for the worse - can you imagine showing a 70s miner the working conditions in an amazon warehouse? Timed for toilet breaks, no overtime, searched everytime you leave, minimum wage etc - I think he’d be shellshocked.
dozy:
As for all you brexiters knew this would happen , show me all these posts from before the referendum stating this ? , I can’t remember anyone ever saying that , maybe I’m wrong but I’d like to see these threads .
Are you for real? For years, for well over a decade in fact I and numerous others have been pointing out the huge and detrimental effect that cheap eastern European labour was having on our earnings, the whole reason Brexit came about was because of it. We pointed out over and over again that the only way our earnings potential would be restored was if this wage arbitrage was ended by leaving the eu, which is the entire reason we voted Brexit.
