Have they already made their mind up/ lost my job?

Mick Bracewell:
Ah! Brilliant. Out comes the raysis card right on cue because some delicate SJW snowflakes can’t accept reality. I expect your Welsh mate will be along any moment to join in the party. Fine by me, it’s water off a duck’s back. If you want to defend a guy who’s had 6 smashes in the space of the year then go ahead, you employ him and deal the carnage left in his wake wherever he goes along with the flak and repair bills from your disgruntled customers. Such “drivers” shouldn’t even be left to move a wheelbarrow unsupervised.

Er - you have actually read what I wrote? I’m not defending anybody here (the exact opposite in fact as far as the OP is concerned)- just accusing you of expressing racist views in your comment. Is there an alternative non-racist interpretation of “Antics of a non-native”?

switchlogic:
This. I’ve had the odd bump in my time… :wink: …and absolutely without a doubt the very best often job saving tactic is for the boss to find out from you before anyone else and be honest if you’re at fault. They’ve heard all the stories before a million times and they can see right through excuses. Own up, be contrite, learn from it.

Same here - had a few bumps and scrapes in 23 years but always rang in there and then and explained what happened and why and if it was my fault I said so. Last time I even had the side view cameras to back me up - Nissan Juke type thing tried pushing into my lane from a sliproad on the M8 in Glasgow - no hard shoulder and nowhere for them to go but never stopped . . Rang the boss who contacted the insurance company with the video . 20 minutes later insurance company rang me in the cab and said it wasn’t my fault and not to worry . They took the other vechiles registration and reported it to the Scottish police but I never heard another thing about it .
Own up if you do something wrong .
Being honest - with the amout of bumps and scrapes youve had as others have said the insurance company will probably say its time for you to learn your trade elsewhere . If you like your job - say sorry and get your s**t together and if your lucky you may keep your job - but I’d be looking round just in case .

switchlogic:
This. I’ve had the odd bump in my time… :wink: …and absolutely without a doubt the very best often job saving tactic is for the boss to find out from you before anyone else and be honest if you’re at fault. They’ve heard all the stories before a million times and they can see right through excuses. Own up, be contrite, learn from it.

Not sure if apolegetic advanced warning that the truck is on its side is going to cut it for the mere lower echelons who have to justify their employment.
As opposed to the guvnor begging them to work for him. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

Mick Bracewell:
If you want to defend a guy who’s had 6 smashes in the space of the year then go ahead, you employ him and deal the carnage left in his wake wherever he goes along with the flak and repair bills from your disgruntled customers. Such “drivers” shouldn’t even be left to move a wheelbarrow unsupervised.

As Roymondo said: " Have you actually read what I wrote?"

This is part of what the OP wrote about the Six “smashes” :

“Im not quite sure how i am to blame for a non fault accident as one of them i wasn’t in the vehicle at the time 2nd i stationary in traffic and a tipper took my mirror off coming the other way 3rd one a learner driver sideswiped me 4th someone went in the back of me again in a queue of traffic.”

Takes two to tango.

Funny how it’s always certain ‘types’ who seem to go through life being 10x as unlucky as everyone else and just always find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. It’s never their fault. Oh no no. Nothing to do with me. Oh, apart from those other 3 accidents in the same year which were my fault, but I didn’t actually know I’d done any of those until my boss showed me the CCTV from the client’s site of me taking their wall down. But I didn’t feel a ■■■■ thing, I tell ya ! :laughing:

cooper1203:
As some of you know i have a set delivery round for my job some drops are everyday and some are once a week kind of thing. Two of my every day drops are run/ managed by the same person that i get along with and help each other out. Yesterday afternoon i got a phone call from him asking if i had hit the wall at the sister site. I honestly didn’t think i had however they have video of my truck reversing into the wall. Apparently i scratched the plasterboard on the access tunnel reversing out. The only time i reversed out of there this week was Thursday yet i saw the guy that phoned me and the supervisor of the sister site on Friday morning and neither of them said anything to me and were both pleasant as usual.

I called the yard and told them as the building owner where the damage took place was insisting it was reported. Got told that i was to come in later on Monday and have the accident investigation done then. When I got back to the yard I went and spoke to the boss and said that i hadn’t seen the video yet and that i couldn’t add any more info but it was going to be sent to them. Was told that he had seen it and it looked as if I had almost done it deliberately and that i must of known i had hit it as i pulled forward and reversed back at a different angle. ie i took a shunt.

I have worked for this company both on agency then as an employee for just under a year. Unfortunately i have had 6 knocks 4 non fault and 2 fault however 3 of them were with in 4 weeks of each other. I was told after the last one that i would be getting a conduct interview which never happened despite me reminding them twice. (was told you will get it when you get it the second time).

What are peoples opinions of this situation. Does it look like they have made their minds up already.

Firstly, which idiot suggested you did it deliberately ffs? :unamused:

The worst thing here could be if you actually knew you did it,.and because of the firm’s view of your record, you thought you might have got away with it,… but only you know whether or not that is true in your own mind mate,.and I wouldn’t expect you to admit it on here. :smiley:

(Incidentally I reckon that ‘‘record’’ should not have been actually recorded as an entity, as it sounds as if those events,.such as a passing truck cabbaging your mirror etc was out of your control and avoidance,… but hey!, these firms love all this pseudo disciplinary crap, it gives some ■■■■ in an office something to do to justify their ‘non job’ :imp: )

■■■■ happens when you drive big vehicles mate,.Christ I know that. ,.I drive a 44 tonne artic down totally unsuitable roads to get to farms that were built for access for horse and carts. :unamused:
Sometimes you can go for months or years without a ‘scrape’, then two or three minor ones, or the odd big one, can come in as many weeks. :unamused: it’s mostly just more bad luck than negligence.
I’ve deffo had a couple in the past, I’ll hold my hands up, and I certainly ain’t a newbie, those who never do must be God’s gift perfect, or only ever doing A to B tyoe deliveries to supermarkets etc, or both… so take no notice of the judgemental, they could quite easily find themselves in your position after a total unexoected ■■■■ up scenario rocks up one day to bite them on the arse…:unamused:

As said, go in with a witness colleague, or preferably a Union rep, (these are the type of occasions where you realise the anti Union crew on here are talking ■■■■■■■■, these guys can and will help you)
Be apologetic and tactful, go through the video footage with them step by step, professionally explaining what you were doing (or trying to do) and give then the ''I’ll definitely be more careful next time ‘’ routine.
Put your case forward, apologise,.and hope for the best,…don’t trivialise the situation, but point out it was minimal damage,.and could have been a lot worse.
Also try and appeal to them about your opinion on your ‘record’ , pointing out that the circumstances of which, were beyond your control,.so maybe a bit unfair do they not think,.and should have no bearing on this accident, and their decision.

(What I will say is, if they suggest you pay towards it,.as some of the more ‘poorer’ firms are doing these days, :unamused: .then refuse, it is the thin end of the wedge of ■■■■ poor t.s and c.s. :bulb:
You’re their driver,.NOT their insurance broker. :bulb:
Anyway if your firm is a Union backed firm, I would bet this type of thing does not exist.)

Good luck mate, but don’t lose any sleep over it, the absolute worst they can do is sack you, and there are other jobs out there,.although I know what it is like to lose a job that you actually like doing.
Let’s know how you get on. :wink:

robroy:

cooper1203:
As some of you know i have a set delivery round for my job some drops are everyday and some are once a week kind of thing. Two of my every day drops are run/ managed by the same person that i get along with and help each other out. Yesterday afternoon i got a phone call from him asking if i had hit the wall at the sister site. I honestly didn’t think i had however they have video of my truck reversing into the wall. Apparently i scratched the plasterboard on the access tunnel reversing out. The only time i reversed out of there this week was Thursday yet i saw the guy that phoned me and the supervisor of the sister site on Friday morning and neither of them said anything to me and were both pleasant as usual.

I called the yard and told them as the building owner where the damage took place was insisting it was reported. Got told that i was to come in later on Monday and have the accident investigation done then. When I got back to the yard I went and spoke to the boss and said that i hadn’t seen the video yet and that i couldn’t add any more info but it was going to be sent to them. Was told that he had seen it and it looked as if I had almost done it deliberately and that i must of known i had hit it as i pulled forward and reversed back at a different angle. ie i took a shunt.

I have worked for this company both on agency then as an employee for just under a year. Unfortunately i have had 6 knocks 4 non fault and 2 fault however 3 of them were with in 4 weeks of each other. I was told after the last one that i would be getting a conduct interview which never happened despite me reminding them twice. (was told you will get it when you get it the second time).

What are peoples opinions of this situation. Does it look like they have made their minds up already.

Firstly, which idiot suggested you did it deliberately ffs? :unamused:

The worst thing here could be if you actually knew you did it,.and because of the firm’s view of your record, you thought you might have got away with it,… but only you know whether or not that is true in your own mind mate,.and I wouldn’t expect you to admit it on here. :smiley:

(Incidentally I reckon that ‘‘record’’ should not have been actually recorded as an entity, as it sounds as if those events,.such as a passing truck cabbaging your mirror etc was out of your control and avoidance,… but hey!, these firms love all this pseudo disciplinary crap, it gives some [zb] in an office something to do to justify their ‘non job’ :imp: )

[zb] happens when you drive big vehicles mate,.Christ I know that. ,.I drive a 44 tonne artic down totally unsuitable roads to get to farms that were built for access for horse and carts. :unamused:
Sometimes you can go for months or years without a ‘scrape’, then two or three minor ones, or the odd big one, can come in as many weeks. :unamused: it’s mostly just more bad luck than negligence.
I’ve deffo had a couple in the past, I’ll hold my hands up, and I certainly ain’t a newbie, those who never do must be God’s gift perfect, or only ever doing A to B tyoe deliveries to supermarkets etc, or both… so take no notice of the judgemental, they could quite easily find themselves in your position after a total unexoected ■■■■ up scenario rocks up one day to bite them on the arse…:unamused:

As said, go in with a witness colleague, or preferably a Union rep, (these are the type of occasions where you realise the anti Union crew on here are talking ■■■■■■■■, these guys can and will help you)
Be apologetic and tactful, go through the video footage with them step by step, professionally explaining what you were doing (or trying to do) and give then the ''I’ll definitely be more careful next time ‘’ routine.
Put your case forward, apologise,.and hope for the best,…don’t trivialise the situation, but point out it was minimal damage,.and could have been a lot worse.
Also try and appeal to them about your opinion on your ‘record’ , pointing out that the circumstances of which, were beyond your control,.so maybe a bit unfair do they not think,.and should have no bearing on this accident, and their decision.

(What I will say is, if they suggest you pay towards it,.as some of the more ‘poorer’ firms are doing these days, :unamused: .then refuse, it is the thin end of the wedge of ■■■■ poor t.s and c.s. :bulb:
You’re their driver,.NOT their insurance broker. :bulb:
Anyway if your firm is a Union backed firm, I would bet this type of thing does not exist.)

Good luck mate, but don’t lose any sleep over it, the absolute worst they can do is sack you, and there are other jobs out there,.although I know what it is like to lose a job that you actually like doing.
Let’s know how you get on. :wink:

Well said that man :exclamation:

I can’t really comment on the rights or wrongs of your incidents. Probationary periods are quite commonplace and you wouldn’t be the first to fall foul of having too many incidents, infringements or attendance issues. Even if there is no specific probationary period, the manager will be looking at you and thinking if it is worth persisting employing you. It may hurt to hear that, but it is a business at the end of the day.

However, regarding the situation you find yourself in, I believe there is a rule regarding having 2 years service to be able to pursue an unfair dismissal case (except in very specific cases). Therefore, any issue that you could raise in such a case, such as not having the proper interview, may be inconsequential.

Comply with everything asked of you, but consider resigning if it looks bad. I say this because your boss has said that it looks as if you did it deliberately (so he could consider gross misconduct). Any reasonable company should give you the opportunity to resign I would hope, but you never know. This will mean a dismissal will not be on your work record should any work references be sought at a later date.

Noremac:
I can’t really comment on the rights or wrongs of your incidents. Probationary periods are quite commonplace and you wouldn’t be the first to fall foul of having too many incidents, infringements or attendance issues. Even if there is no specific probationary period, the manager will be looking at you and thinking if it is worth persisting employing you. It may hurt to hear that, but it is a business at the end of the day.

However, regarding the situation you find yourself in, I believe there is a rule regarding having 2 years service to be able to pursue an unfair dismissal case (except in very specific cases). Therefore, any issue that you could raise in such a case, such as not having the proper interview, may be inconsequential.

Comply with everything asked of you, but consider resigning if it looks bad. I say this because your boss has said that it looks as if you did it deliberately (so he could consider gross misconduct). Any reasonable company should give you the opportunity to resign I would hope, but you never know. This will mean a dismissal will not be on your work record should any work references be sought at a later date.

I ain’t no expert, but if they got rid of him by pinning that on him (doing it deliberately) I reckon he would have a good case.
I mean…Why would he?
Risk jeopardising his job by purposely doing damage,.and knowing he was on camera?
How exactly could they prove it?
I would not resign if they tried to pin that on me, itvwould be like admitting to their accusations.
I’d fight it tooth and nail, through the Union, then if they sacked me go for compensation, again through the Union knowing I was in the right.

I keep banging on about Unions, but in this crap and grossly unfair and unjust ■■■■ industry,.I can not see why anybody would not want some element of protection for scenarios like this to fall back on…

The thing with non fault accidents is that in a lot of cases the chance of having one can be eliminated or at least reduced with a bit of forward planning; sitting right up the chuff of the vehicle in front as you pass an on slip is one such case. Yes you have right of way, and yes a line of nose to tail cars entering the carriageway are a PITA but if you’ve left no gap then the odds are that they’re gonna try to get in anyway. The result is arguably a non fault accident for you, but it was avoidable.

Last year on a s/c in the badlands of Norfolkshire I approached a line of stationary traffic and came to a halt, the artic behind me also had seen it well in advance and he too rolled to a gentle halt. The problem was that he was obviously one of those who simply had to see past my trailer and so stopped with his offside tyres on the white line. A few seconds later a convoy of traffic passed in the other direction, when I looked in my mirror the chap behind me had lost his whole offside mirror arm. So yes, technically a non fault accident on his behalf, but totally avoidable IMO.

i have always called in when I have had an accident or any thing else happen whilst out on the road as soon as i have found somewhere safe and legal to stop. Or if something has happened in the yard i have reported it straight away. As I said the damaged to the wall was described to me by the site manager as “a scratch” and as it took them 24 hours to report it with the goods in staff walking past it every time they went to let a vehicle in.

the maoster:
The thing with non fault accidents is that in a lot of cases the chance of having one can be eliminated or at least reduced with a bit of forward planning; sitting right up the chuff of the vehicle in front as you pass an on slip is one such case. Yes you have right of way, and yes a line of nose to tail cars entering the carriageway are a PITA but if you’ve left no gap then the odds are that they’re gonna try to get in anyway. The result is arguably a non fault accident for you, but it was avoidable.

Change of subject here just quickly but last week I was on the m2 with an escorted lorry in front of me. we were passing a slip road and the ■■■■■■ vehicle had done exactly what you described and pulled up close behind the lorry so the joining van didn’t pull off the slip road between them. The van decided that he just had to be there come hell or high water and forced his way in causing the ■■■■■■ to brake hard.

Point I’m trying to make is there are situations that just no matter what you try and do and predict you just can’t.

p.s not disagreeing with your scenario.

robroy:
I ain’t no expert, but if they got rid of him by pinning that on him (doing it deliberately) I reckon he would have a good case.
I mean…Why would he?
Risk jeopardising his job by purposely doing damage,.and knowing he was on camera?
How exactly could they prove it?
I would not resign if they tried to pin that on me, itvwould be like admitting to their accusations.
I’d fight it tooth and nail, through the Union, then if they sacked me go for compensation, again through the Union knowing I was in the right.

I keep banging on about Unions, but in this crap and grossly unfair and unjust [zb] industry,.I can not see why anybody would not want some element of protection for scenarios like this to fall back on…

A good case it might be, but first it needs to be possible to raise the challenge legally.

Even union membership doesn’t change anything really. It is just that legally it is impossible to pursue the employer. To a large extent an employer can get rid of a member of staff and expect not to be brought to tribunal if the dismissal occurs before 2 years service, except if the reason is on a specific list. After 2 years service that changes so that a worker can pursue a wider array of unfair dismissal cases.

The union bod could well sit in on an interview, but has no power other than to assist the employee to the best extent he/she can. Compensation would only be possible through the appropriate legal avenue and it wouldn’t get off the ground is all I was trying to say. What you are saying is of course a natural reaction, but this just might end up meaning the employee ends up actually getting dismissed rather than resigning, which would go on the employment record and could be revealed to another employer on enquiry.

Noremac:

robroy:
I ain’t no expert, but if they got rid of him by pinning that on him (doing it deliberately) I reckon he would have a good case.
I mean…Why would he?
Risk jeopardising his job by purposely doing damage,.and knowing he was on camera?
How exactly could they prove it?
I would not resign if they tried to pin that on me, itvwould be like admitting to their accusations.
I’d fight it tooth and nail, through the Union, then if they sacked me go for compensation, again through the Union knowing I was in the right.

I keep banging on about Unions, but in this crap and grossly unfair and unjust [zb] industry,.I can not see why anybody would not want some element of protection for scenarios like this to fall back on…

A good case it might be, but first it needs to be possible to raise the challenge legally.

Even union membership doesn’t change anything really. It is just that legally it is impossible to pursue the employer. To a large extent an employer can get rid of a member of staff and expect not to be brought to tribunal if the dismissal occurs before 2 years service, except if the reason is on a specific list. After 2 years service that changes so that a worker can pursue a wider array of unfair dismissal cases.

The union bod could well sit in on an interview, but has no power other than to assist the employee to the best extent he/she can. Compensation would only be possible through the appropriate legal avenue and it wouldn’t get off the ground is all I was trying to say. What you are saying is of course a natural reaction, but this just might end up meaning the employee ends up actually getting dismissed rather than resigning, which would go on the employment record and could be revealed to another employer on enquiry.

Ok, but my point was if I was ever accused of something I did not do, to hell with the possible consequences I would dig my heels in and the last thing I’d do was resign, as I would see it as an admission of guilt…but that is just me. :neutral_face:

cooper1203:
i have always called in when I have had an accident or any thing else happen whilst out on the road as soon as i have found somewhere safe and legal to stop. Or if something has happened in the yard i have reported it straight away. As I said the damaged to the wall was described to me by the site manager as “a scratch” and as it took them 24 hours to report it with the goods in staff walking past it every time they went to let a vehicle in.

The boss is probably trying to get rid of you just so that he can get some stuff done as every time he tries to leave his desk the phone starts ringing again. :smiley: :smiley: :laughing: :laughing:

Mick Bracewell:

cooper1203:
i have always called in when I have had an accident or any thing else happen whilst out on the road as soon as i have found somewhere safe and legal to stop. Or if something has happened in the yard i have reported it straight away. As I said the damaged to the wall was described to me by the site manager as “a scratch” and as it took them 24 hours to report it with the goods in staff walking past it every time they went to let a vehicle in.

The boss is probably trying to get rid of you just so that he can get some stuff done as every time he tries to leave his desk the phone starts ringing again. :smiley: :smiley: :laughing: :laughing:

I know you’re only on a wind up Mick :smiley: , but if there’s anything that makes a new driver lose confidence, it’s having a knock.
Then they tend to over compensate, by being TOO careful, which creates even more ■■■■ happening, then the over reaction to trivial incidents by management chucked in the mix, just adds to the problem.
Way I see it is they have made too much of a couple of scrapes that were not the lad’s fault in real terms, he thought he had put it behind him, got a little more confident, then he goes and (as somebody admitted) does a minor bump whilst reversing, with no real dramas, thinks he’s got way eith it and they over react BECAUSE he didn’t report it.
We’ve all been new mate tbf.

robroy:
[zb] happens when you drive big vehicles mate
Sometimes you can go for months or years without a ‘scrape’, then two or three minor ones, or the odd big one, can come in as many weeks. :unamused: it’s mostly just more bad luck than negligence.

^ This.

robroy:

Mick Bracewell:

cooper1203:
i have always called in when I have had an accident or any thing else happen whilst out on the road as soon as i have found somewhere safe and legal to stop. Or if something has happened in the yard i have reported it straight away. As I said the damaged to the wall was described to me by the site manager as “a scratch” and as it took them 24 hours to report it with the goods in staff walking past it every time they went to let a vehicle in.

The boss is probably trying to get rid of you just so that he can get some stuff done as every time he tries to leave his desk the phone starts ringing again. :smiley: :smiley: :laughing: :laughing:

I know you’re only on a wind up Mick :smiley: , but if there’s anything that makes a new driver lose confidence, it’s having a knock.
Then they tend to over compensate, by being TOO careful, which creates even more [zb] happening, then the over reaction to trivial incidents by management chucked in the mix, just adds to the problem.
Way I see it is they have made too much of a couple of scrapes that were not the lad’s fault in real terms, he thought he had put it behind him, got a little more confident, then he goes and (as somebody admitted) does a minor bump whilst reversing, with no real dramas, thinks he’s got way eith it and they over react BECAUSE he didn’t report it.
We’ve all been new mate tbf.

“by being TOO careful, which creates even more [zb] happening”
:confused:
OK you’ll have to explain this one to me. Maybe it works differently in your part of the world, but in my world if you do things carefully and think about what you’re doing then oddly enough you don’t make ■■■■ ups, the equipment stays in one piece and owner of said equipment is a happy chappy because you’re helping the business make lots of money which leads to pay rises and being bought good spec kit that he knows will get looked after. :bulb:

On the flip side, if you are the business owner and you have an employee coming back with panels hanging off, mirrors missing (wasn’t my fault, guv! I never felt a thing!) and your customers ringing up to complain about your driver treating their premises like a Demolition Derby then do you just sit back and ■■■■ up the thousands of pounds worth of repair bills and risk of losing customers because, well, he’s “only” had his licence a year and “only” had 6 (!) incidents so just need to give him some more time, a few more bent panels and missing mirrors and he’ll come good :astonished: , or do you wake up to the fact that he’ll never make a driver as long as he has a hole in his arse and get shut at the soonest opportunity?

Mick Bracewell:
“by being TOO careful, which creates even more [zb] happening”
:confused:
OK you’ll have to explain this one to me. Maybe it works differently in your part of the world, but in my world if you do things carefully and think about what you’re doing then oddly enough you don’t make [zb] ups, the equipment stays in one piece and owner of said equipment is a happy chappy because you’re helping the business make lots of money which leads to pay rises and being bought good spec kit that he knows will get looked after. :bulb:

On the flip side, if you are the business owner and you have an employee coming back with panels hanging off, mirrors missing (wasn’t my fault, guv! I never felt a thing!) and your customers ringing up to complain about your driver treating their premises like a Demolition Derby then do you just sit back and ■■■■ up the thousands of pounds worth of repair bills and risk of losing customers because, well, he’s “only” had his licence a year and “only” had 6 (!) incidents so just need to give him some more time, a few more bent panels and missing mirrors and he’ll come good :astonished: , or do you wake up to the fact that he’ll never make a driver as long as he has a hole in his arse and get shut at the soonest opportunity?

Mick…,.I don’t know this guy, :neutral_face: .I’m just taking what he says on face value, and assuming his version of events is true, in the spirit of a forum discussion, that is all… :bulb:
Maybe you know more about him than I do, who knows. :neutral_face:

My ‘too careful’ comment was when somebody is nervous they tend to over compensate on things, whilst missing others.
. For instance, they are maybe trying to avoid backing their trailer into something behind them,. and concentrating too bloody much on the arse end of the trailer, ,.and missing the obstacle on the blind side of their unit, which is about to catch the near side step, which if they were not so flustered they would have seen , it’s a nerves thing,.especially with a lad who is inexperienced.
Personally I’ve never been bothered with nerves myself, in ‘‘my world’’ as you put it, but a young inexperienced driver, already in bother may just be like that,.everybody is different mate.

As for the vision of driver carnage you illustrate, I fully understand your point,. I’ve employed drivers myself that costed me a mint,.and dropped them like hot potatoes, but tbf he scraped a wall panel whilst reversing,.I still say the ‘crime’ was not reporting it,.rather than the actual occurrence.
I just think that if what he says is genuine, he should not be written off for a minor scrape, with a couple of misdemeanors thrown in the mix which were not technically his fault…again according to him, but only he knows the truth.

There are FAR too many drivers of the type you describe, those are the ones who will never make proper drivers as long as they have that proverbial orifice. :smiley:

I’m wondering why the customer called you after calling your boss and sending him the video but not telling you he had done so ? Why ask you if you scraped the wall if he has video of the crime ? Presumably your boss went and inspected your truck for scrape marks, did he find any ?

Think we need NCIS special agents on this. :sunglasses: