Would like to see Munro of Aberdeen resurrected.My first driving was with them.
Carl Williams:
vertco:
Carl Williams:
El Griffo:
Carl Williams:
Bassman:
Hi, Dennis
This is turning into an interesting thread. I think my contenders would be 1) the late Doug Holloway who built up one of our areas biggest haulage concerns,mainly based on the steel industry,namely Consolidated Land Services. Many is the story of his deals and means to get contracts, stories of him sailing close to the wind but if you worked for him and did your job you were generally well looked after. A lot of his drivers spent many years with him and were quite loyal.
I would like to talk to him now because my father was one of his first drivers,when it was North Lincs Haulage ,which was Doug and three drivers.
I have memories of my father and Doug handballing two four wheeler loads of bagged fish meal onto my Dads eight wheeler for my dad to do umpteen drops round Devon and Cornwall, and then Doug and my dad sat at our kitchen table talking. Me,a tiddler who in later life went to work for Doug but owing to the size of the firm I was a driver among many. It would be interesting to see if he thought life was better in his early days ,when everybody pitched in and helped or later on when he had made his money and sold out to Powell Duffryn.
No.2)I think that would have to be Harold Woods. A man who built an empire out of other empires and became one of the names for tank haulage, what would his thoughts be about todays monopolies.
Lastly I would love to be able to talk again to one man who spent all his working life in haulage, never owned a truck or managed a company ,just went out every day and did his job, My father.
A man who as a kid for many years we saw at bed time Sunday and again on Friday night or Saturday dinner. In later years I suppose after the joy of the open road and cab hotel had worn off he moved onto tankers and more local work.
Now that I am about to retire I think my dad and I could spend many an hour comparing two generations of haulage, and even now I wish I could ask his opinion about matters transport related.Cheers Bassman
Hi Bassman,
If I a correct didn’t Doug Holloway, through Consolidated Land Services own Davison’s Transport Shildon. Co. Durham that following John Davison’s (John Dee) ‘sudden departure’, change its name to Direct Transport Ltd?
If I am correct, I believe he went on to spend a year or two residing in one of Her Majesties Prison, because of being convicted of bribery and corruption of British Steel Executives.
I attended several meetings and discussions with Direct Transport and John Dee Ltd, whie he was away, who were by then deadly enemies and to say the least Direct always appeared a strange run company, compared with say John Dee. (And that’s saying something)
Direct under Holloway’s control went on to start making worktops as Direct Worktops Ltd and somehow ended up being controlled by George Reynolds.
How it passed from Holloway to Reynolds would, I am sure make a very interesting story. I have heard one explanation that I would not choose to repeat.
In view of these facts, perhaps you might like to change your opinion.Carl
Hiya Carl,
If memory serves me correct you may be wrong about Doug Holloway being put in prison. Quite a few of his hierachy and himself were accused of bribery with British Steel execs and put on trial. It was a long case and all were aquitted but at the end of it one of Doug’s sons
had a go at a juror and was hauled back before the judge and given a small sentance of about a month for contempt of court.
I know it was a big case and it was also tragic because a participant was travelling from the North east by car and he was involved in a car accident and lost his life and i believe there was no apparent reason for the accident,Bassman may know more about this because it was more than 30 years ago.Hi ElGriffo
I am reliably advised he was in prison, but it is possible he was remanded in custody, awaiting trial. However it wuld be very unusual for him not to be granted bail, and the magistrates would have had to have been provide with very strong evidence not to have granted bail. I do know Reynolds was remanded in custody at that time, for several months and it is said they shared a cell.
Carl
I seem to remember that Direct Transport/worktops was run by a chap called Monk before Reynolds took charge
Yes you are correct. Davisons was run by John Davison, managing director, and john Monk, an accountant, as company Secretary. When John davison suddenly left to subsequently form John dee the name was changed to Direct and John Monk was Managing director, although it was effectivly run by Dennis Coates (Another real character/likeable rogue). Reynolds then came along (said to be a friend of doug Holloway) and got rid of Coates and evetually John Monk claimed he no longer could work with Reynolds, resigned.
It is difficult as a lot I know is hear say, but I have spoken to John Monk, and George Reynolds years ago, and have their conflicting views. I hope I have the intelegence to have formed my own opinions, but I think it is better to keep them to myself. However John Monk definatly was trying to play cricket in a lion’s den., and a one stage after John Davison left the words Taking over lunatics and asylum rearranged could describe the situation.
Carl
Thanks for that Carl. I agree that we cannot take this one further as any more is speculation, hearsay and guesswork. and probably defamatory!!
As an aside, and on another colourful haulier, I met a chap of about my age called Davis who was a son of one of the ‘brothers’ who was running an outfit in about 1972 called Bow Bells Deliveries who were handling a lot of fruit and veg and subbing to north eastern hauliers, which was after the big crash and I think after Larrow.
regards
vertco
Hiya David,
I do recall that the car was in collision with another vehicle although whether it happened the way you describe i cannot remember but i remember at the time that the general opinion was that he was very worried about going to court.
There was a lot of money involved and if they had been found guilty i would have thought the sentences would have been substantial but they were aquitted so they must have been innocent. 
Bewick:
jackslad:
Bewick:
Speaking only of Hauliers long departed,if you could ,who would you like to chat to for a couple of days.Name your 3 favourites and Why !! Mine ,I think, would be 1)Alf Sutton,surely one of the greatest hauliers of the 20th century,an absolute A.C.E. at his trade.2) James and Alexander Smith who created a nationwide operation from Maddiston.3) Jack Brady,because I never had the time to absorb all he imparted to me and a re-run would fill in some blanks !! There may,hopefully,be some very interesting responses,or none at all !!! Cheers Bewick.Sam &Sid Preston Carnforth hauliers,how did they start,was it after the war,did they buy midland sheds off the railway,what price in those days,what price for fuel,tyres,wages ect.I have a distant family connection and this probably sparked my intrest in road haulage…
Interesting choice “jackslad”,I think “truckfing” might have a few anecdotes about the Great Sydney!! However,I have it good authority from one of our retired drivers that Sam was more of a hinderence to Syd over the years they were alive.When I started as an owner driver in the late 60’s Syd was running quite a large fleet,a mixture of 4 wheelers,Steers and six wheelers,he ran out of the local Quarries around Carnforth but probably his main traffic throughout the years he operated was Pig Iron out of Millom and if anyone knows the road in,and out of Millom,it’s a right bloody goat track!!!All his tippers had Steel dropside bodies as he also ran a lot of scrap out of Scotland to the Midlands and Foundry sand back up from Bromsgrove ( I think)I knew a number of his drivers,some from Millom,others from Milnthorpe and Carnforth,I used to come across them at Durose Cafe in Newcastle,Stoke.I believe that when Millom Iron closed down suddenly in 1968 it was a serious loss to Syd although he did carry on for a few years I’m not just sure when he finnished? He ran quite a mixture of tippers,mainly Commers and Dodges but he did have a number of Ergo AEC Marshals in the later years.There was a tale that a tipper once pulled into the yard loaded with scrap engines and Sydney spied a 2 Stroke engine and decided that this engine looked in “better nick” than the spare one in the workshop,so with no further ado,they swapped said engines,some bloke was our Sydney !!!Someone must have plenty of other tales/incidents about him,there is more about Syd but it gets a bit “fruity” but I am,never-the-less assured its perfectly true!!! Cheers Bewick.
Hi Bewick ,I was about 9or10 year old when i occasionally went with sam, a distant memory now i remember going to ici heysham,dining at dirty dicks exotic cafe garstang,and like you say pig iron from millom,i remember going down grizebeck at about 5mph also going passed the dolly blue works before the bypass,i didnt know syd,but sam had serious accident coming out of millom one day ,he took months to recover ,only to die with a problem with his medication,I travel to millom occasionally now with an fh 460 i shift box 6 axles fantastic brakes plus engine brake, and barely break sweat,i would love to take him wi me now,do you think he’d be impressed,prob not…
I’m sure any of Syd Preston’s old drivers would be impressed with these new motors,when they had to contend with underpowered engines and rubbish brakes!!! I believe that over the years that Millom Iron was operating quite a few motors,not only Syd’s, came to grief on the Millom road !!Cheers Bewick.
After reading your earlier comments on hauliers who would stick a knife in your back if they could get away with it Dennis , were there hauliers around who youd trust or got on well with or was it too risky ?
ramone:
After reading your earlier comments on hauliers who would stick a knife in your back if they could get away with it Dennis , were there hauliers around who youd trust or got on well with or was it too risky ?
It wasn’t really a “main” area for hauliers South ■■■■■■■■■■■■ not in the type of haulage we were in but all the same three or four of them you wouldn’t trust as far as you could throw them! But over the many years we operated the three or four I’m thinking about never bothered us but they would have had a go if they could have !!The Haulier that we were closest to over the years was D.& R.F.Howarth T/a Howarth Bros.from Ingleton,two of the four hauliers I mentioned were always circling the Howarth lads but they never could make anything of their customers! However,because of this problem the Howarths encountered they always called on us to help out when they had any big jobs out of their main customer and to a lesser extent their other customers.We ran a much larger fleet and at the drop of a hat,say they had 6 or 7 loads for Tilbury we’d do 4 or 5,we just dropped them the trailers and they loaded them,they always paid us good rates as well,but were safe in the knowledge that we would never encroach on their customers!!We got on so well over the years that the two brothers did,in fact,offer me their business when they wanted to retire in '82,for once in my life I declined the very favourable offer much to the consternation of the accountancy firm we both used,but at the time the whole industry wasn’t so good,fuel was rocketing in price and the Howarth fleet needed major replacement.In hindsight I believe I made the right decision and I didn’t fall out with the two lads! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
ramone:
After reading your earlier comments on hauliers who would stick a knife in your back if they could get away with it Dennis , were there hauliers around who youd trust or got on well with or was it too risky ?It wasn’t really a “main” area for hauliers South ■■■■■■■■■■■■ not in the type of haulage we were in but all the same three or four of them you wouldn’t trust as far as you could throw them! But over the many years we operated the three or four I’m thinking about never bothered us but they would have had a go if they could have !!The Haulier that we were closest to over the years was D.& R.F.Howarth T/a Howarth Bros.from Ingleton,two of the four hauliers I mentioned were always circling the Howarth lads but they never could make anything of their customers! However,because of this problem the Howarths encountered they always called on us to help out when they had any big jobs out of their main customer and to a lesser extent their other customers.We ran a much larger fleet and at the drop of a hat,say they had 6 or 7 loads for Tilbury we’d do 4 or 5,we just dropped them the trailers and they loaded them,they always paid us good rates as well,but were safe in the knowledge that we would never encroach on their customers!!We got on so well over the years that the two brothers did,in fact,offer me their business when they wanted to retire in '82,for once in my life I declined the very favourable offer much to the consternation of the accountancy firm we both used,but at the time the whole industry wasn’t so good,fuel was rocketing in price and the Howarth fleet needed major replacement.In hindsight I believe I made the right decision and I didn’t fall out with the two lads! Cheers Dennis.
When did they eventually finish ,i remember passing their yard as late as 89 and im sure they were still there or am i imagining it,another firm fairly local to yourself are seen regular down here J.Bargh , not sure of the spelling and not too sure of the drivers eyesight when he cut straight across my lane going uphill out of bradford forcing me to stop harshly on a roundabout ,he wasnt a young fellow either 
Hiya “ramone” The Howarth Bros eventually sold out a year or so after I was involved then their old business went downhill from there on in,changing hands a few times thereafter and eventually disappearing altogether.As for your comments about S.J.Bargh they used to be one of 4 main hauliers out of the Libby factory at Milnthorpe along with us and two others.Bargh’s got kicked out with one of the others and the traffic was split 70%/30% between Bewick Transport and the remaining haulier,Nestle would never give us 100% even though their traffic only amounted to about 5% of our total business at that time.Barghs are now major Milk hauliers throughout the northwest and apart from the old Libby connection we were never bothered by them,a number of their drivers joined Bewick Transport over the years but I don’t recall any of our lads going the other way.We paid 40 hrs. basic plus Time and half and double time on Sundays,our night men were paid per shift at a premium rate as well.The other hauliers I have mentioned including Barghs always paid a Basic plus a percentage bonus on the motors earnings.Always amused me as IMHO there was only one winner with suchlike bonus schemes,and it sure as hell wasn’t the driver!!!You’ll probably get a start at Barghs as I believe they’er always looking for drivers!! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
Hiya “ramone” The Howarth Bros eventually sold out a year or so after I was involved then their old business went downhill from there on in,changing hands a few times thereafter and eventually disappearing altogether.As for your comments about S.J.Bargh they used to be one of 4 main hauliers out of the Libby factory at Milnthorpe along with us and two others.Bargh’s got kicked out with one of the others and the traffic was split 70%/30% between Bewick Transport and the remaining haulier,Nestle would never give us 100% even though their traffic only amounted to about 5% of our total business at that time.Barghs are now major Milk hauliers throughout the northwest and apart from the old Libby connection we were never bothered by them,a number of their drivers joined Bewick Transport over the years but I don’t recall any of our lads going the other way.We paid 40 hrs. basic plus Time and half and double time on Sundays,our night men were paid per shift at a premium rate as well.The other hauliers I have mentioned including Barghs always paid a Basic plus a percentage bonus on the motors earnings.Always amused me as IMHO there was only one winner with suchlike bonus schemes,and it sure as hell wasn’t the driver!!!You’ll probably get a start at Barghs as I believe they’er always looking for drivers!! Cheers Dennis.
Why on earth do drivers work on a percentage the motor earns,if the management were doing their jobs properly they should be able to work out what they can pay ,if it doesnt come up to scratch they have cut the rates too much ,theres a company who sometimes pull for us and their drivers are on a percentage ,thus always flying around ,they employ quite a few Poles ,i was listening to 2 of their drivers recently 1 was a Pole with a new Scania and the latest digi tacho and the other was an english bloke with an older Volvo ,the Polish bloke was bragging that he could tip his load and be on break at the same time apparently if he moved his vehicle for less than 30 seconds it doesnt record ,he was running rings around the english bloke who was seething ,my answer would be to resign because they were both on crap money ,the company by all accounts were encouraging it
Hiya “ramone”,I recall that one of the four hauliers that ran out of Libby’s at Milnthorpe operated said “bonus” scheme,although not all their traffic came from Libby’s but the best loads did.So the “star” men got the best loads and those at the bottom of the pecking order got the crap!!! In Sept '74 their then top driver who had got their first new F88 in Jan '73 came to us for a start,he was literally knackered from flying about on the bonus scheme!!! He started with us on nights to Daventry and back,he lapped it up and eventually came on to shunting trailers on days at Milnthorpe then he started in the Traffic office as assistant manager.He lived and breathed the job and because he had “done it” he was a first class lad to work alongside the manager,and me!!Unfortunately,in Jan ‘78 he went off ill with what looked like flu’,he never came back to work,he collapsed and died at home 2 weeks later,unknown to us he had had Rumatic fever as a child and this had weakened his heart.But at least,I knew he had three and a half years enjoying what he did for us,I even got him his CPC certificate which,ironically,arrived after he had passed away!! He was 41 years old when he died,what a great loss it was to his family and,of course,to us as he was a good pal as well as a valued employee.There’s a couple of shots of him on the Bewick thread,one with him stood as proud as punch between two new F88’s(which he thought was the greatest motor ever!!) and another giving me the “two fingered salute” when I took his photo in the yard !!! Happy Days, long gone,cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
Hiya “ramone”,I recall that one of the four hauliers that ran out of Libby’s at Milnthorpe operated said “bonus” scheme,although not all their traffic came from Libby’s but the best loads did.So the “star” men got the best loads and those at the bottom of the pecking order got the crap!!! In Sept '74 their then top driver who had got their first new F88 in Jan '73 came to us for a start,he was literally knackered from flying about on the bonus scheme!!! He started with us on nights to Daventry and back,he lapped it up and eventually came on to shunting trailers on days at Milnthorpe then he started in the Traffic office as assistant manager.He lived and breathed the job and because he had “done it” he was a first class lad to work alongside the manager,and me!!Unfortunately,in Jan ‘78 he went off ill with what looked like flu’,he never came back to work,he collapsed and died at home 2 weeks later,unknown to us he had had Rumatic fever as a child and this had weakened his heart.But at least,I knew he had three and a half years enjoying what he did for us,I even got him his CPC certificate which,ironically,arrived after he had passed away!! He was 41 years old when he died,what a great loss it was to his family and,of course,to us as he was a good pal as well as a valued employee.There’s a couple of shots of him on the Bewick thread,one with him stood as proud as punch between two new F88’s(which he thought was the greatest motor ever!!) and another giving me the “two fingered salute” when I took his photo in the yard !!! Happy Days, long gone,cheers Dennis.
Thats a sad tale Dennis but at least he got to see both ends of the scale and he did eventually get the break unfortunately it was tradgically cut short,i didnt think these schemes were still being used but whilst people are willing to work for these firms then they will continue to be subjected to the crap end of the industry.Having said that there arent many good jobs around and if its all thats available to pay the mortgage well what can you do? Theres not much work around bradford and the work thats here isnt particularily good money wise.But at least you know what youre letting yourself in for when you apply for a job @ £7.25 a hour or in 1 case £8 all the way through.The bonus schemes are an incentive for drivers to speed and run over their hours without their employers telling them to do so directly ,it should be made illegal
Hi, El Griffo
Just going back to the “did Doug Holloway go to prison or not” debate. I will see if the local paper has anything about that trial and it’s outcome in it’s archives. I believe it was around 1970.
It would be good to put a cap on it. I will report back if I find anything.
Cheers Bassman
ramone:
Bewick:
Hiya “ramone”,I recall that one of the four hauliers that ran out of Libby’s at Milnthorpe operated said “bonus” scheme,although not all their traffic came from Libby’s but the best loads did.So the “star” men got the best loads and those at the bottom of the pecking order got the crap!!! In Sept '74 their then top driver who had got their first new F88 in Jan '73 came to us for a start,he was literally knackered from flying about on the bonus scheme!!! He started with us on nights to Daventry and back,he lapped it up and eventually came on to shunting trailers on days at Milnthorpe then he started in the Traffic office as assistant manager.He lived and breathed the job and because he had “done it” he was a first class lad to work alongside the manager,and me!!Unfortunately,in Jan ‘78 he went off ill with what looked like flu’,he never came back to work,he collapsed and died at home 2 weeks later,unknown to us he had had Rumatic fever as a child and this had weakened his heart.But at least,I knew he had three and a half years enjoying what he did for us,I even got him his CPC certificate which,ironically,arrived after he had passed away!! He was 41 years old when he died,what a great loss it was to his family and,of course,to us as he was a good pal as well as a valued employee.There’s a couple of shots of him on the Bewick thread,one with him stood as proud as punch between two new F88’s(which he thought was the greatest motor ever!!) and another giving me the “two fingered salute” when I took his photo in the yard !!! Happy Days, long gone,cheers Dennis.That
s a sad tale Dennis but at least he got to see both ends of the scale and he did eventually get the break unfortunately it was tradgically cut short,i didnt think these schemes were still being used but whilst people are willing to work for these firms then they will continue to be subjected to the crap end of the industry.Having said that there arent many good jobs around and if its all thats available to pay the mortgage well what can you do? Theres not much work around bradford and the work thats here isnt particularily good money wise.But at least you know what youre letting yourself in for when you apply for a job @ £7.25 a hour or in 1 case £8 all the way through.The bonus schemes are an incentive for drivers to speed and run over their hours without their employers telling them to do so directly ,it should be made illegal
They called the lad Mick Wilson “ramone” this is a circa '75 shot of Mick finishing off a night trunk trailer,at the paper mill at Beetham,he’d put some reels on the front and I’d brought a new CF Bedford van and shot it off my trailer onto the trunk trailer,somewhere in London it was going IIFC ! Cheers Dennis.
Those CFs used to be everywhere ,lots were made into ice cream vans , was it going to 1 of your depots?
ramone:
Those CFs used to be everywhere ,lots were made into ice cream vans , was it going to 1 of your depots?
IIRC “ramone” we were shipping it from our local Vauxhall/Bedford dealer to one in London.Cheers Dennis
Hello Dennnis, I see your driver was an expert in barrel hitches eh, the in thing long before ratchet straps were introduced onto the scene, & very affective may I add, Regards Larry.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Hello Dennnis, I see your driver was an expert in barrel hitches eh, the in thing long before ratchet straps were introduced onto the scene, & very affective may I add, Regards Larry.
Aye Larry,I find it highly amusing now about Vosa taking a hand in advising on “load security”,in our day if a load fell off you got “done” period!! although we did have a few mishaps over the years they were extremely rare out of the '000’s of loads we carried.Problem nowadays is these new breed of drivers think they can bang a load on a curtainsider,close the curtains,and away we go !!They wouldn’t put the same load on a flat then set off without sheeting it and roping it!! Well,maybe some of the dozy ■■■■■■■■ would!! But VOSA getting involved-----what a ■■■■■■■ joke,some of those guys would have extreme difficulty in working out how to secure their breeks round their waists!! Cheers Dennis.
In the 60s Dennis I was loaded for on of Her Majestreys Stationarey Depots in Bristol, I was about 5 mile from the drop when the whole load of paper slipped to the nearside of the wagon (An 8 wheeler Mk 5 AEC), , I was worried stiff in case it came off, So I drove up onto the kerb got my timbers from under the body & drove up onto them & put some more ropes on to try & make the load more secure, I then set off & traveled very slowley to the drop & got there safeley, They were very good & gave me all the help I needed to get the ropes & sheets off, By that time I was sweating like a pig.But all was revealed when the sheets came off the pallets had collapsed under the weight of the paper, so it was a relief that I wasnt to blame for the load slipping, good old sisal ropes Eh, hard on the owld hands but very affective for the job, Regards Larry.
.