Well for whats its worth I had two Fodens with the 150 Gardners in and I had no problems with then at all, They were tops on fuel mpgs, Plus the S21 Foden loved to be overloaded it pulled like a train with a top speed of 48 mph with the Foden 12 speed box,It earned its keep and made me a very happy owner driver, 
, Of course Its what one prefers to run, I moved on to run Seddon Atkis, Leyland Roadtrians with the Rolls 300T Engine which was also good on fuel, Regards Larry.
Interesting topic to say the least which may see us all out. 1960’s to early 80’s round my way Gardner ruled, odd firms stuck with Leyland. All the bosses I worked for were ex drivers or sons of, they could hardly string a sentence together let alone discuss bmep or torque/ft. They’d buy 1/2 motors a year ERF, FODEN, AKKY to buy Foreign or Leyland, Bedford etc you, d be thought to be daft. Buying ■■■■■■■■■■ on your way to bankruptcy .
A Guy even with a Gardner in it would be considered a rash decision.
Guys would be tarred with the Leyland brush I suspect, cheap n nasty. Why would a boss buy an untried motor, only if one of his neighbors had tried first and gave him good reports I, d imagine, he certainly wasn’t going to risk his money. He wouldn’t need to his replacement motors would be costed in.
If it’s your money stick with what works somebody else’s why care
coomsey:
Interesting topic to say the least which may see us all out. 1960’s to early 80’s round my way Gardner ruled, odd firms stuck with Leyland. All the bosses I worked for were ex drivers or sons of, they could hardly string a sentence together let alone discuss bmep or torque/ft. They’d buy 1/2 motors a year ERF, FODEN, AKKY to buy Foreign or Leyland, Bedford etc you, d be thought to be daft. Buying ■■■■■■■■■■ on your way to bankruptcy .
A Guy even with a Gardner in it would be considered a rash decision.
Guys would be tarred with the Leyland brush I suspect, cheap n nasty. Why would a boss buy an untried motor, only if one of his neighbors had tried first and gave him good reports I, d imagine, he certainly wasn’t going to risk his money. He wouldn’t need to his replacement motors would be costed in.
If it’s your money stick with what works somebody else’s why care
Which leaves the question how do you explain the example of a loyal Gardner and Atki operator also running ■■■■■■■ engined Atkis,180 engined Big J’s and turbocharged Scanias and Volvos all within the same fleet in the day then eventually ditching the Gardner engined Brits totally in favour of the turbocharged imports ? ( and evading the question with answers like ducking and diving and doing whatever it took doesn’t cut it 
) .
In addition the question why 180 Gardner and not 8 LXB in the Big J in that case ?.Notwithstanding the issue of putting a Rolls 280 in it or the the issue of supposedly ‘premium’ Atkis v anything with a Leyland badge like a Big J ( or Scammell Crusader ) supposedly falling to bits before it got out of the yard. 
Again that still being all about the productivety v fuel consumption equation which anyone running a haulage firm could understand obviously in this case including SoM’s management. 
Carryfast:
coomsey:
Interesting topic to say the least which may see us all out. 1960’s to early 80’s round my way Gardner ruled, odd firms stuck with Leyland. All the bosses I worked for were ex drivers or sons of, they could hardly string a sentence together let alone discuss bmep or torque/ft. They’d buy 1/2 motors a year ERF, FODEN, AKKY to buy Foreign or Leyland, Bedford etc you, d be thought to be daft. Buying ■■■■■■■■■■ on your way to bankruptcy .
A Guy even with a Gardner in it would be considered a rash decision.
Guys would be tarred with the Leyland brush I suspect, cheap n nasty. Why would a boss buy an untried motor, only if one of his neighbors had tried first and gave him good reports I, d imagine, he certainly wasn’t going to risk his money. He wouldn’t need to his replacement motors would be costed in.
If it’s your money stick with what works somebody else’s why careWhich leaves the question how do you explain the example of a loyal Gardner and Atki operator also running ■■■■■■■ engined Atkis,180 engined Big J’s and turbocharged Scanias and Volvos all within the same fleet in the day then eventually ditching the Gardner engined Brits totally in favour of the turbocharged imports ? ( and evading the question with answers like ducking and diving and doing whatever it took doesn’t cut it
In addition the question why 180 Gardner and not 8 LXB in the Big J in that case ?.Notwithstanding the issue of putting a Rolls 280 in it or the the issue of supposedly ‘premium’ Atkis v anything with a Leyland badge like a Big J ( or Scammell Crusader ) supposedly falling to bits before it got out of the yard.
Again that still being all about the productivety v fuel consumption equation which anyone running a haulage firm could understand obviously in this case including SoM’s management.
I presume that’s aimed at master Bewick CF. My bosses weren’t in the expanding business same work year in year out. What do I know but would imagine if your fleets ever rising you would be forced to buy what you thought next best after Gardner. One of my gaffers ,a Foden man, had just the one RR cos he couldn’t get a G. Bout 3yrs later cos he couldn’t get a Foden an ERF. But by 1990 all had moved onto foreigners. Then again who would swap the whole fleet bound to be a mixture
Ive got a question for you C/F , what vehicles should hauliers be buying now , which vehicle would you be buying if you were a haulier , this may be difficult to answer without the aid of hindsight , and of course what vehicles should hauliers be buying in the future , Im sure you could set up your own consultancy with your knowledge, I will wait your reply with baited breath
Theres lots of hauliers out there running poxy 440 bhp motors which is probably the average these days giving only 10 bhp per ton ,its backwards thinking hauliers ,why don`t they buy 730 Scanias ■■?
ramone:
Ive got a question for you C/F , what vehicles should hauliers be buying now , which vehicle would you be buying if you were a haulier , this may be difficult to answer without the aid of hindsight , and of course what vehicles should hauliers be buying in the future , Im sure you could set up your own consultancy with your knowledge, I will wait your reply with baited breath
Theres lots of hauliers out there running poxy 440 bhp motors which is probably the average these days giving only 10 bhp per ton ,its backwards thinking hauliers ,why don`t they buy 730 Scanias ■■?
I think I’ve made it clear plenty of times that there’s nothing wrong with 10 hp per tonne then or now although it’s really the torque to weight ratio that matters anyway in that and not so much the peak power with around 30 lb/ft per tonne being an ideal figure to get the job done reasonably economically.Bearing in mind that the 730 is obviously designed to haul higher gross weights than 44 t and around 900 lb/ft + was considered reasonable at 32 t gross or more for 38t by the early 1980’s.
As I said on that basis the choice of RR 280 v 8 LXB seems like a no brainer in favour of RR.With 8 LXB v 180 or NA ■■■■■■■ also being a no brainer in favour of 8 LXB by the standards of the early-mid 1970’s.Nor is there any need for hindsight in that comparison.It’s all clearly there in the numbers provided for operators to look at in the day.Which probably at least explains SoM’s buying policy of 240 v 180 Gardner in the Big J.
I had three criteria for buying Gardner chassis, 1) Reliability, 2) Economy, 3) Good second hand sale value. I didn’t know of ,never mind understand, half the bollox that CF spouts about existed as I was only a hard working haulier possessing limited intelligence, but I new enough to be able to choose the ideal motors for my firm. Cheers Bewick.
Carryfast:
ramone:
Ive got a question for you C/F , what vehicles should hauliers be buying now , which vehicle would you be buying if you were a haulier , this may be difficult to answer without the aid of hindsight , and of course what vehicles should hauliers be buying in the future , Im sure you could set up your own consultancy with your knowledge, I will wait your reply with baited breath
Theres lots of hauliers out there running poxy 440 bhp motors which is probably the average these days giving only 10 bhp per ton ,its backwards thinking hauliers ,why don`t they buy 730 Scanias ■■?I think I’ve made it clear plenty of times that there’s nothing wrong with 10 hp per tonne then or now although it’s really the torque to weight ratio that matters anyway in that and not so much the peak power with around 30 lb/ft per tonne being an ideal figure to get the job done reasonably economically.Bearing in mind that the 730 is obviously designed to haul higher gross weights than 44 t and around 900 lb/ft + was considered reasonable at 32 t gross or more for 38t by the early 1980’s.
As I said on that basis the choice of RR 280 v 8 LXB seems like a no brainer in favour of RR.With 8 LXB v 180 or NA ■■■■■■■ also being a no brainer in favour of 8 LXB by the standards of the early-mid 1970’s.Nor is there any need for hindsight in that comparison.It’s all clearly there in the numbers provided for operators to look at in the day.Which probably at least explains SoM’s buying policy of 240 v 180 Gardner in the Big J.
A politicians answer if ever i heard 1 , avoid the question i asked
Bewick:
I had three criteria for buying Gardner chassis, 1) Reliability, 2) Economy, 3) Good second hand sale value. I didn’t know of ,never mind understand, half the bollox that CF spouts about existed as I was only a hard working haulier possessing limited intelligence, but I new enough to be able to choose the ideal motors for my firm. Cheers Bewick.
Sounds good to me Dennis n I know nowt about it. What should happen in theory very often doesn’t happen practice, or should I say never happens in practice.
In theory Mr CF should be ignored ( me I think he’s a STAR) but he’s not by most of you because he does that thing that makes you doubt. And even better he keeps topics going don’t take him for granted he makes you lot SHARP
PS I don’t know him n I, m not always sure what the hell he’s on about
With regard to Bewick’s three criteria for vehicle buying:
Most of the hauliers I worked for only observed the first two- resale value didn’t come into the equation simply because the things were run until they literally fell apart before being consigned to the back of the yard where they were cannibalised for parts to keep the rest of the fleet running.
I well remember the case of one employer whose 150 Gardner had limped back home with a hole in a piston. The solution? Take a piston of the same size out of one of the “graveyard” residents. I can almost hear Gardner spinning in his grave from here! 
harry_gill:
Retired Old ■■■■:
Well done, Gingerfold, that’s a pretty concise and accurate answer. Now stand by for your mate’s ramblings about “specific” this and “optimum” that.
And in answer to one previous comment, the prerequisites of the majority of hauliers of those days was, “Is it reliable?” and “Does it give good fuel consumption?”. Gardners won on both counts, which is why they couldn’t turn them out fast enough.Hiya,
Ah’ but ROF I’ll bet you’d prefer to punch summat about with a
Roller or a ■■■■■■■ inboard, I know what I would prefer.
thanks harry, long retired.
Absolutely, H! I served my apprenticeship on Bedfords, Fords and various 150 & 180 Gardner-engined machinery before I graduated to a ■■■■■■■ powered Big J. Never looked back!
coomsey:
Bewick:
I had three criteria for buying Gardner chassis, 1) Reliability, 2) Economy, 3) Good second hand sale value. I didn’t know of ,never mind understand, half the bollox that CF spouts about existed as I was only a hard working haulier possessing limited intelligence, but I new enough to be able to choose the ideal motors for my firm. Cheers Bewick.Sounds good to me Dennis n I know nowt about it. What should happen in theory very often doesn’t happen practice, or should I say never happens in practice.
In theory Mr CF should be ignored ( me I think he’s a STAR) but he’s not by most of you because he does that thing that makes you doubt. And even better he keeps topics going don’t take him for granted he makes you lot SHARP
PS I don’t know him n I, m not always sure what the hell he’s on about
He lives in secure accommodation “Coomsey” somewhere in Leatherhead and on occasions when he disappears off the TN site is when Matron removes his lap top cause the “verbal” runs away with him and he has to be banged up in his cell, sorry, secure room, until his medication kicks in and calms him down ! 
Cheers Bewick.
ramone:
I`ve got a question for you C/F , what vehicles should hauliers be buying now , which vehicle would you be buying if you were a haulier ,
Bless him, He never seems to answer difficult questions…
dave docwra:
ramone:
I`ve got a question for you C/F , what vehicles should hauliers be buying now , which vehicle would you be buying if you were a haulier ,Bless him, He never seems to answer difficult questions…
Anything with a V8, as long as it doesn’t do more than 4mpg.
Retired Old ■■■■:
dave docwra:
ramone:
I`ve got a question for you C/F , what vehicles should hauliers be buying now , which vehicle would you be buying if you were a haulier ,Bless him, He never seems to answer difficult questions…
Anything with a V8, as long as it doesn’t do more than 4mpg.
Hi ROF, You should have said V 8 Detriot, Then perhaps the man might have some remarks, Regards Larry.
Bewick:
I had three criteria for buying Gardner chassis, 1) Reliability, 2) Economy, 3) Good second hand sale value. I didn’t know of ,never mind understand, half the bollox that CF spouts about existed as I was only a hard working haulier possessing limited intelligence, but I new enough to be able to choose the ideal motors for my firm. Cheers Bewick.
In which case surely you’d have ‘preferred’ the 8 LXB engined Big J to the NA ■■■■■■■ engined Atki ?.Bearing in mind that you’ve said that you wouldn’t have wanted the 8 LXB Big J regardless. 
While also having got rid of a delayed order Gardner rather than keep it.
I’d guess that an 8 LXB engined Big J would also have had a much better residual value than a Gardner 180 Big J or for that matter NA ■■■■■■■ Atki.
While we know that you also thought that turbocharged Swedes could also provide all that instead of Gardner.So why not the turbo Rolls or ■■■■■■■ in the Brits ?.
Retired Old ■■■■:
With regard to Bewick’s three criteria for vehicle buying:
Most of the hauliers I worked for only observed the first two- resale value didn’t come into the equation simply because the things were run until they literally fell apart before being consigned to the back of the yard where they were cannibalised for parts to keep the rest of the fleet running.
I well remember the case of one employer whose 150 Gardner had limped back home with a hole in a piston. The solution? Take a piston of the same size out of one of the “graveyard” residents. I can almost hear Gardner spinning in his grave from here!
Mr Gardner wouldn’t mind at all ROF. When I was rebuilding them regularly a chap came from Gardners while I had an engine stripped to see just why we were replacing so many parts. The valve guides were allways well worn, he said leave them as they won’t get any worse. Regarding pistons and rings, even though the compression rings had done something like 500,000 miles he said to refit them EVEN IF NEW PISTONS WERE BEING FITTED as they would only just be bedded in, renew the oil rings though. If the liner was worn he reccomended getting the liner pressed out and turned upside down so that the lower unworn part was now at the top, we just fitted replacement blocks anyway. Big end shells usually showed a lot of the copper underlay so we renewed them as they would never be handier, he said refit them as it would take years to wear it all away. At the end of the day we just carried on replacing everything, just for peace of mind really as we only rebuilt them once in their life.
Pete.
Bewick:
coomsey:
Bewick:
I had three criteria for buying Gardner chassis, 1) Reliability, 2) Economy, 3) Good second hand sale value. I didn’t know of ,never mind understand, half the bollox that CF spouts about existed as I was only a hard working haulier possessing limited intelligence, but I new enough to be able to choose the ideal motors for my firm. Cheers Bewick.Sounds good to me Dennis n I know nowt about it. What should happen in theory very often doesn’t happen practice, or should I say never happens in practice.
In theory Mr CF should be ignored ( me I think he’s a STAR) but he’s not by most of you because he does that thing that makes you doubt. And even better he keeps topics going don’t take him for granted he makes you lot SHARP
PS I don’t know him n I, m not always sure what the hell he’s on aboutHe lives in secure accommodation “Coomsey” somewhere in Leatherhead and on occasions when he disappears off the TN site is when Matron removes his lap top cause the “verbal” runs away with him and he has to be banged up in his cell, sorry, secure room, until his medication kicks in and calms him down !
Poor lad
Just been on Smooth Radio that the M25 is blocked at Godstone ! I wonder if that ■■■■ “CF” has caused it !