that SWB chassis looks less than 9’ 2" to me
Sorry, need to quote through you again.
Guy customer service dept "Hello, is that Smith of Maddiston. I’m afraid that we can’t supply you with that big order of Big J4T’s fitted with a Gardner 240 as our engineers can’t get it to fit. I know we said we could when we took the order but it turns out that we were telling porkies - what are we like. We can give you a Cummins instead though so that will be okay won’t it. What do you mean you want your deposit back? We’re giving you a truck aren’t we, so what difference does the engine make.
Smith of Maddiston. “That’s fine, we didn’t really want them anyway and were just yanking your chain when we ordered them. Don’t worry we’ll continue to buy from you for the next few years.
Oh, and for a laugh, we’ll get some of our units to have Gardner 240 badges on the front grille. In years to come we’ll have all those idiots who collect truck numbers baffled. It’ll drive them crazy”
Only in Alf’s head could that scenario exist.
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That scenario actually happened to Jaguar customers who ordered the V12 powered XJ 220 and who were then told it’s now going to be a V6 take it or leave it but we keep your deposit either way.
The change of spec clause really does exist in many cases.
Doubt if anyone was going to take legal action over the choice of Cummins v Gardner.
Blimey check out that ‘prop shaft’.
The Big J obviously had it’s origins in being designed for small V8 power.What transmission is that ?.
Obviously extended from that to take a Cummins.
But the 8 LXB would have been something else.
A record of ‘37’ possibly impossible to fulfil and subsequently altered orders maybe ?.
Maybe Bewick knows more than he’s letting on.
Good old Vaughans, expected blood and paid next to nothing.
So here is my three penneth worth on the subject, Bewick always started this thread as a bit of banter with the end proof of a photo to prove the fact.
As a wagon daft lad who lived for lorries spending any time i could with my dad and uncles it was exciting when these bigger power units were coming on the scene as it was all Atkinson Gardner 180 ,s at Sandersons.
So when they got three new Atkinsons with the 240 8XLB i can to this day remember the registrations OAJ 668,669,939M it was a big deal. Smith of Maddison had a yard at Stockton on Tees on Portrack Lane where we went one day to do some transhipping and we parked up next to a new Guy and there it was the mythical beast in all its glory ,couple of pots sticking out of the back, my dad talked to the driver who was based at that depot and he was full of praise about it , i even got to sit inside , but alas no photographic evidence!!
Atkinson did increase the wheelbase when the Borderer replaced the Silver Knight range to 10’ 8" for all their chassis and in general the Gearbox was the 9 speed RTO 9509Abut you could have the optional DB 8 speed range change which was a similar twin countershaft design as the Fuller to cope with the extra power of the newer engines coming onto the market.
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I can just imagine all those prospective Jaguar owners taking that lightly. A rebuttal without proof is just a flight of fancy in someone’s mind.
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So wouldn’t GUY just put the 240 in a longer chassis?
Yes, of course; or even just use a longer wheelbase if that really helped. As I said four or five posts up, most chassis were - and still are - sold with a choice of wheelbases. Early '70s ERFs certainly were: I have the spec sheets.
It’s just possible that whoever filled the wheelbase column of that archive sheet above, didn’t know the wheelbase so defaulted to the standard 9’ 2". It’s even more probable that Guy Motors knew how to spoon the engine in without the advise of dreamers.
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Perish the thought if you are refering to Village
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Here’s an interesting variable! I didn’t know Smiths of M. ran heavy haulage units. This one just happens to be a 6x4 Guy Big-J with the newer grille. You wouldn’t have much difficulty lining up your 8LXB & Fuller with that, I’d have thought. And the archive sheet doesn’t specify what axle configuration they were. Plus, the wheelbase data would be about correct.
EDIT to add: also, that appears not to be a ‘one-off’ as it had Cummins-powered 6x4 predecessors as shown below:
Is the obvious answer. This has been taken from a magazine, it’s not been issued by Guy Motors
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For the purposes of engine and drive line packaging, in the case of 6x4, it’s all about the distance between the radiator and first/front drive axle input flange.
Which obviously makes the choice between using Cummins v 8LXB veer even more towards the former.
Don’t think there’s any evidence shown, which suggests that the purported examples, of supposed 8 LXB powered BigJ’s, throughout the topic, would be anything more than the 9’6’’ as shown on the order ‘record’ and as such it’s the engines listed, not the wheelbase measurement, which is incorrect.
Obviously I would have concurred with Atkinson’s designers it needs a 10’ > wheelbase to fit an 8 LXB in a 4x2 tractor unit.
6x4 all bets are off.Although the Ozzie’s might have done it with a lwb special if anyone could, or would want to.
Many XJ220 customers certainly didn’t take the change,
from V12 to V6, after handing over their deposits and demands regarding agreed deposit payments,
‘lightly’.
In fact it resulted in a big court case …which ‘they’ lost and Jaguar won.Based on the common design changes clause in the sales contract.
In the case of the 8LXB BigJ. I’d guess that at that time many customers had existing trailer fleets with weird pin positions requiring swb tractor units.
Or were just resistant to buying the required longer wheelbase units.
Either way by the evidence provided the 8LXB didn’t get put in a 9’6’’ wheelbase BigJ.Because it wouldn’t fit.
Bewick obviously did buy 10’ > wheelbase 8LXB powered Atkis.
But not Australian etc export spec BigJ’s.
The Pickfords unit etc probably shows what it ‘would have’ taken to fit the 8LXB in a BigJ.
Assuming any customer wanted a less than 10’ something wheelbase then it probably wouldn’t fit going by the CM 8LXB Atki article.
Possibly GUY took the orders shown on the list on that basis.Maybe even told the respective customers that they’d try to fit it.
Which were then predictably changed to Cummins ?.