B.Wadsworth:
Hi ,Folks Mr B,spot on , you and your family keeping ok , Cheers Barry
Yes we are fine Baz and I trust you and yours are the same. That Seddon was bought secondhand by Malc Woodhouse more out of interest to see how it performed but I recall him telling me he wasn’t very impressed when it was compared to the 8LXB ERF’s and Atky Borderers he ran so it had to go. So what eventually happened to it Baz did you keep hold of it or did you move it on ? Cheers Mr. B.
coomsey:
I bet the Akky boys were well happy to have the Seddon men coming to show them where they were going wrong!!
Back to the point,if Seddon were putting 240s in Guy must have done. Does anyone know how many 240 Seddons were built? What their allocation of Gardners was compared to Guys?
I very much doubt there was no more than a handful of Seddons built with the 200BHP 8LXB as they were just an expensive “non starter” in the market place. I also recall that there were photos of the rear of the Seddon cab and the 8LXB engine on the TN site. Bewick.
Bewick:
coomsey:
I bet the Akky boys were well happy to have the Seddon men coming to show them where they were going wrong!!
Back to the point,if Seddon were putting 240s in Guy must have done. Does anyone know how many 240 Seddons were built? What their allocation of Gardners was compared to Guys?I very much doubt there was no more than a handful of Seddons built with the 200BHP 8LXB as they were just an expensive “non starter” in the market place. I also recall that there were photos of the rear of the Seddon cab and the 8LXB engine on the TN site. Bewick.
Which makes it all the stranger that no pics of a Guy!! Only drove one Seddon,24t 8whlr with a Leyland engine, she was the bosses pet n he was well welcome to it cheers Coomsey
[zb]
anorak:
If Mr. Hugh was deciding the allocation on a whim, it is surprising he allowed any of his best engine to go to a chassis manufacturer who could not do that job properly.What caused the problem with the Seddon chassis? Crossmembers too rigid/in the wrong place?
Mr Hugh Gardner was critical of EVERY chassis assembler that installed his engines…they didn’t route the exhaust systems correctly, they didn’t fit correct sized radiators, and so on.
As for Seddons, from 1967 when they introduced the Motor Panels cab on the max weight tractor units they were built to the most ‘economical’ price possible, and cracked chassis rails wasn’t an uncommon fault on various Seddon models. They were not alone in having problems with the crack appearing at the front offside rear spring hanger, I’ve known it happen on AECs, Leylands, ERFs and Volvos; - never the nearside though. Maybe someone can explain the stress dynamics that cause this to happen?
with it’s MP cab range Seddon did record high sales and good profits, so they did tap into a market for shall we say…value for money?
Bewick:
I also recall that there were photos of the rear of the Seddon cab and the 8LXB engine on the TN site. Bewick.
Dear Dennis, I think you are confusing the Seddon with the Guy cab 
gingerfold:
Maybe someone can explain the stress dynamics that cause this to happen?
I’d guess an extreme example ?.Maybe hub reduction seems to be answer in getting more of the torque where you want it at the wheels instead of throwing it back at the engine. 
gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
If Mr. Hugh was deciding the allocation on a whim, it is surprising he allowed any of his best engine to go to a chassis manufacturer who could not do that job properly.What caused the problem with the Seddon chassis? Crossmembers too rigid/in the wrong place?
Mr Hugh Gardner was critical of EVERY chassis assembler that installed his engines…they didn’t route the exhaust systems correctly, they didn’t fit correct sized radiators, and so on.
As for Seddons, from 1967 when they introduced the Motor Panels cab on the max weight tractor units they were built to the most ‘economical’ price possible, and cracked chassis rails wasn’t an uncommon fault on various Seddon models. They were not alone in having problems with the crack appearing at the front offside rear spring hanger, I’ve known it happen on AECs, Leylands, ERFs and Volvos; - never the nearside though. Maybe someone can explain the stress dynamics that cause this to happen?
with it’s MP cab range Seddon did record high sales and good profits, so they did tap into a market for shall we say…value for money?
Would it have to do with the fact that weight is transferred laterally on steep cambers and deep kerbs, imposing a tugging strain on offside components? Robert
Hi, Mr B, we ran her for about two years then she back to Bills, he had a big thing going with Gardener engines for export so she had to go to that big lorry park in the sky , Cheers Barry
If it seemed to be a higher Power problem it might have just been something simple like Direction of Rotation and the resulting Torque transmitted through gear changes, I would though maybe expect Offside Rear engine mounts to suffer too unless the chassis at that point behind the spring hanger was the first weakest point. Wonder if the industry even bothered to try and find out the cause! Franky.
B.Wadsworth:
Hi, Mr B, we ran her for about two years then she back to Bills, he had a big thing going with Gardener engines for export so she had to go to that big lorry park in the sky , Cheers Barry
Ah! so Meester L’atcliff this ees dodgy 8LXB as it 'ees not as fast as my Blothers 8LXB bletween Hong Kong and Kowloon side ! Police catch me twice last week so I blame “dodgy” engine only 200 hundled Blake Horse Power !!! Me thinks Waddies have “had you over” Son so we hope you got engine velly cheap because I send it back to you for “lee fund” of my HK $ 2,000 you ■■■■■■■ Lobber Meester Bill and your Son Tlevor also !! 
Bewick:
B.Wadsworth:
Hi, Mr B, we ran her for about two years then she back to Bills, he had a big thing going with Gardener engines for export so she had to go to that big lorry park in the sky , Cheers BarryAh! so Meester L’atcliff this ees dodgy 8LXB as it 'ees not as fast as my Brothers 8LXB bletween Hong Kong and Kowloon side ! Police catch me twice last week so I blame “dodgy” engine only 200 hundred Blake Horse Power !!! Me thinks Waddies have “had you over” Son so we hope you got engine velly cheap because I send it back to you for lee fund of my HK $ 2,000 you [zb] Lobber Meester Bill and your Son Trevor also !!
It’s brame not blame and it’s all Tlevor’s fault because he’s the one who charged them 2 grand each when he was told the deal was buy one get two flee.Two to power the boat and one for the anchor. 
Frankydobo:
If it seemed to be a higher Power problem it might have just been something simple like Direction of Rotation and the resulting Torque transmitted through gear changes, I would though maybe expect Offside Rear engine mounts to suffer too unless the chassis at that point behind the spring hanger was the first weakest point. Wonder if the industry even bothered to try and find out the cause! Franky.
It was a long time ago but I don’t recall ever having rear engine mounting issues, my memory is not so good but something tells me we had heavy front engine mounting wear on the RR engines, part of the chassis problem could have been down to the higher torque and much faster gear changes, the RR engine Seddons were about an hour quicker & maybe more on the Stranraer to Manchester trunk compared to the Gardners but they supped a lot more fuel as a down side.
Frankydobo:
If it seemed to be a higher Power problem it might have just been something simple like Direction of Rotation and the resulting Torque transmitted through gear changes, I would though maybe expect Offside Rear engine mounts to suffer too unless the chassis at that point behind the spring hanger was the first weakest point. Wonder if the industry even bothered to try and find out the cause! Franky.
This is an excellent explanation Mr. Dobo.
If you look at those videos of Canadian loggers drag racing fully laden up hills, one front wheel is off the ground, always the same one. The torque the engine makes is reacted by the chassis, so the chassis twists. Every time the driver changes gear, the torque is removed, then reapplied, as you say.
This adds fatigue damage to one side of the chassis at the top, and the other side at the bottom. Fatigue resulting from the suspension inputs is roughly equal side-to-side, apart from the road effects Robert mentioned (I wonder if the failure was higher or lower in LHD markets?). Added together, the damage will be highest somewhere on one side of the chassis, every time. Nominal stresses are highest where the geometry changes- next to a bracket, for instance, in this case the spring hanger.
Repairs by welding don’t last anything like as long as the original metal, even if the welds are done to specification, hence the recurrence of the problem.
I dare say the chassis manufacturers have addressed the problem by now, by putting more material where the stress is, or making the section deeper, or doing something with the design of the crossmembers. If we can work it out, you can bet there are clever people in those big firms who can do it too. 
Some of our Fodens (mine was one) fitted with the RR 265Li engine suffered from the nearside rear engine mounting bolts regularly shearing off. You could tell as the cable gearchange suddenly became heavy, drilling them out and fitting oversize bolts cured the problem. Gardners didn’t have the same problem, they just split the flywheel bellhousing instead! 
Pete.
Ron Forsyth photo off FB .sorry in advance
coomsey:
0
Ron Forsyth photo off FB .sorry in advance
Hiya,
Seen this one before- not as left the factory.
harry_gill:
coomsey:
0
Ron Forsyth photo off FB .sorry in advanceHiya,
Seen this one before- not as left the factory.
Nay Lads lets not kick off this Big J 8LXB nonsense again please ! 
Bewick.
Bewick:
Nay Lads lets not kick off this Big J 8LXB nonsense again please !
With bonfire night coming I thought we could do with some fireworks !!
