Going sick due to lack of sleep?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

Just completed the first cpc module last week.Interesting part was meeting the other chaps n chapesses who,although you tend to to see in passing on the road network,rarely are we in the same place at any given time,so the cpc was more akin to a social gathering than the rigorous academic :unamused: exercise we all know and love :neutral_face:
I traded verbal blows with one classic 70s throwback,who suggested I’m in the “wrong game” when I pointed out that getting up at 2 am isn’t for everyone.Especially my good self…“oh,you know!..millions of years of evolution that has us dossing in the dark,working when its light”
There really is a schism at play here imho with a brutalised contingent who are finding it impossible to evolve,psychologically/philosophically and a newer generation looking for some sanity and inspiration from their predecessors,as I say who remain hog_tied to an institutionalized,brutal work ethos that should long have been sent to pasture.

I personally would prefer a more sane 12 on 12 off dynamic to replace the unsustainable gradgrind model we currently endure,and yet when a new initiative IS invented,the night work rule,for example,inevitably its loopholed with the " collective opt out" clause that gives the whip hand to the ruddy insomniacs amongst us.Try approaching a Southampton container firm with the caveat “I won’t start before 4 am”:slight_smile:

There is an excellent natural product by the superb American,supplement company (Swansons) who sell Melatonin.Banned inthe uk,but used massively by the yanks,it regulates the sleep patterns,especially with long haul flying and I’ve used it for years with exceptional results. During the last summers heatwave it really was the catalyst in determining whether I slept or didn’t.E bays the place to go but I think theres a Uk Swanson site now operating.Worthy of some research at least.

22

adam277:
For me my problem (I THINK) is it’s shift work.

I’m on a 12 week rolling rota and my start times will vary from 10:00AM to 12:30pm
Also my finish times vary daily from 7:00PM to 01:30M. Some days I work 7 hour shifts some days I work 13 hour shifts.

I’ve had sleep issues for a while but I finished work today and I was seriously tired when I got home and I just couldn’t get to sleep. In the end I managed to get about 3 hours of sleep but still didn’t feel great and the night before that I had like 4-5 hours of sleep.
According to google I may be having:
"Shift work sleep disorder (SWSD) is a circadian rhythm sleep disorder characterized by insomnia and excessive sleepiness affecting people whose work hours overlap with the typical sleep period.
"

Adam, not withstanding the other posts on here I would be delighted with your shift pattern because I am not a morning person.

If fact this would be standard fare for chefs, barmen and many other industries.

Starting between 10 and 12.30 in the morning/afternoon is very gentlemanly and finishing between 7 and 1.30 in the evening is fine by me and keeps me off channel flicking a few evenings.

I think you may well have a medical issue and you should start the process of having it checked out.

It seems to me that you have plenty of sleep opportunity during the night time but you achieve very little sleep and what you get seems to be poor quality.

These are classic symptoms of the previously mentioned but very treatable “Sleep Apnoea” for example as a mate of mine recently discovered to his surprise but doesn’t know himself since going on treatment.

He wasn’t overweight or appear a likely sufferer but he did snore really loudly for not a big guy. So loud his wife often had to go to the guest bedroom when he was home and he woke himself sometimes even though he was knackered and in a deep sleep at the time.

He couldn’t sleep more than 4-5 hours and and spent the rest of the night twisting and turning only to get up knackered. A quick siesta in the afternoon was usually his saviour.

Anyway like you he went sick for a shift and boss sent him to doctor.

He is now on a little machine for breathing at night and is shocked at the difference after so many years of the problem which he always assumed was the combination of shift work and getting older(fifty’s).

He is also going to a specialist dentist to check out some gum shield type device that can sort it out too.

Be a little careful that some doctor doesn’t cause your licence to be suspended while he suspects and slowly investigates some issues.

Be very clear that you are fine until they conclude otherwise. If and when they conclusively diagnose an issue then start appropriate treatment immediately and there should be little or no interruption.

I hope you get yourself checked out and best of luck.

23

manalishi:
I traded verbal blows with one classic 70s throwback,who suggested I’m in the “wrong game” when I pointed out that getting up at 2 am isn’t for everyone.Especially my good self…“oh,you know!..millions of years of evolution that has us dossing in the dark,working when its light”

I couldn’t agree more.

Did a year of 4.30am wake ups every second week. For the first 2 or 3 days each week I was hanging by 11am and totally goosed by 3 pm and still not finished.

A 2 am regular rise for work, nah…I’m just not able for that so the containers can rot in the stacks if that’s their game imo.

Ditto for you Grumpyken. Regular nights are bad and that flick from nights to earlies is beyond me too although I’m still not on regular hours by any means.

Horses for courses I guess but getting up at 2 am is very strictly reserved for going to the airport on holidays because it was the only flight available :smiley:

24

When I worked as a night trunker for what is now DPD I once was doing a trunk to Smethwick and half way down just felt completely knackered for no reason whatsoever. I’d done nights for years and was fully onto night clock with my sleep pattern, had a good day’s sleep, just for whatever reason body said no. Pulled into services on M42, phoned them up told them I didn’t feel fit to drive. Had a 15 minute break and some coffee and ran it the last 40 minutes or so into Smethwick. No way was I going to be fit to drive back so they got a standby driver to drive me and my truck back to my depot at York and sorted him out transport for getting back.

As I’ve got older I’m finding it harder to nigh on impossible to function on 4-5hrs kip like I used to do when I first started. Back on agency I’m given work on a daily basis so if I’m starting to feel tired part way through the week I just say I’m not available.

My lad is a tramper for an owner driver with a small fleet and maxes his hours out. When he feels tired he’ll just stop and have a kip for an hour. Boss is fine with it.

manalishi:
I traded verbal blows with one classic 70s throwback,who suggested I’m in the “wrong game” when I pointed out that getting up at 2 am isn’t for everyone.Especially my good self…“oh,you know!..millions of years of evolution that has us dossing in the dark,working when its light”
There really is a schism at play here imho with a brutalised contingent who are finding it impossible to evolve,psychologically/philosophically and a newer generation looking for some sanity and inspiration from their predecessors,as I say who remain hog_tied to an institutionalized,brutal work ethos that should long have been sent to pasture.

Amen. The educated amongst us can see it is completely ridiculous doing effectively twice as much work as the general population does in a week. Unfortunately there’s far too many knuckle scrapers who think there’s nothing wrong with doing that for the national average wage. They genuinely feel seriously offended if you dare suggest that the hours we do be limited to the far more reasonable 48hrs we originally thought the WTD would cap it at. They’re too thick to understand that the less hours we can legally do the more the money will go up.

25

Conor:
When I worked as a night trunker for what is now DPD I once was doing a trunk to Smethwick and half way down just felt completely knackered for no reason whatsoever. I’d done nights for years and was fully onto night clock with my sleep pattern, had a good day’s sleep, just for whatever reason body said no. Pulled into services on M42, phoned them up told them I didn’t feel fit to drive. Had a 15 minute break and some coffee and ran it the last 40 minutes or so into Smethwick. No way was I going to be fit to drive back so they got a standby driver to drive me and my truck back to my depot at York and sorted him out transport for getting back.

As I’ve got older I’m finding it harder to nigh on impossible to function on 4-5hrs kip like I used to do when I first started. Back on agency I’m given work on a daily basis so if I’m starting to feel tired part way through the week I just say I’m not available.

My lad is a tramper for an owner driver with a small fleet and maxes his hours out. When he feels tired he’ll just stop and have a kip for an hour. Boss is fine with it.

manalishi:
I traded verbal blows with one classic 70s throwback,who suggested I’m in the “wrong game” when I pointed out that getting up at 2 am isn’t for everyone.Especially my good self…“oh,you know!..millions of years of evolution that has us dossing in the dark,working when its light”
There really is a schism at play here imho with a brutalised contingent who are finding it impossible to evolve,psychologically/philosophically and a newer generation looking for some sanity and inspiration from their predecessors,as I say who remain hog_tied to an institutionalized,brutal work ethos that should long have been sent to pasture.

Amen. The educated amongst us can see it is completely ridiculous doing effectively twice as much work as the general population does in a week. Unfortunately there’s far too many knuckle scrapers who think there’s nothing wrong with doing that for the national average wage. They genuinely feel seriously offended if you dare suggest that the hours we do be limited to the far more reasonable 48hrs we originally thought the WTD would cap it at. They’re too thick to understand that the less hours we can legally do the more the money will go up.

Oddly enough it was a DPD rig I was tail ending recently through the Stokenchurch cutting who I was sure was about to buy the farm.Weaving constantly across all lanes of the m40,mile after mile at night,cars scattering hither ad yon.
I remember doing this routine years ago with Parcelforce from Bootle to London,absolutely soul destroying,arduous evil that people shouldn’t be doing unless for spectacular levels of remuneration (50 quid an hour say) would tempt me,but only for a limited time.

26

Being obliged to work 3x15 hour shifts on the spin with minimum 9 hour rest periods - and then spending 2 hours each way on the commute!

I reported the last firm to do that to me (I pulled the plug on the rest of the week’s agency shifts thursday morning when I got home dead beat…)

A few months later - said firm - won a bloody award for “efficiency”! Go figure! :frowning:

27

Winseer:
Being obliged to work 3x15 hour shifts on the spin with minimum 9 hour rest periods - and then spending 2 hours each way on the commute!

I reported the last firm to do that to me (I pulled the plug on the rest of the week’s agency shifts thursday morning when I got home dead beat…)

A few months later - said firm - won a bloody award for “efficiency”! Go figure! :frowning:

Out of interest, who said YES to the two hour commute each way ?

28

Winseer:
Being obliged to work 3x15 hour shifts on the spin with minimum 9 hour rest periods - and then spending 2 hours each way on the commute!

I reported the last firm to do that to me (I pulled the plug on the rest of the week’s agency shifts thursday morning when I got home dead beat…)

A few months later - said firm - won a bloody award for “efficiency”! Go figure! :frowning:

More power to yer elbow sire for stepping up to the plate appropo the casual brutalities at large.
In league with my 12 on 12 off brave new world manifesto,I would like to see a max daily drive of 8 hours,with 2x 9s instead of the current 2x10s.I would also merge trunking with tramping to get round the commute home.Thats right folks a trumper.

29

Ok lets get into it .

My opinion - mine - (yours may be different and thats ok as well )

Nobody likes 15 hour shifts . Nobody likes 9 hour breaks .
The problem is how you spend those “rest” hours . A 2 hour commute home and back with an hour each end for eating , washing , tv,playing with the kids / missus / significant other won’t leave you with much sleep (3 hours if your lucky) You have to ask is it worth it .
I am a "tramper " if I end up on a 9 well an hour each end for washing , eating , sorting the cab out , facebook etc still leave 7 in the bed - I can function happily on 6 for a couple of nighrs but I’ll be wanting the full 11 after that. Some of the work we do means I can have up to 14 hours rest each day between shifts . Other times I’m squeezing in a nine .
If your getting your sleep ,theres not a medical problem then you need to stop and think -

  • Can I change my shifts to regular ones ?
  • Can I get more time off / reduced hours ?
    Ultimately you have to ask - is this job for me ? Can I live with myself if I wipe out a family car/ family of kittens / bus load of nuns (yes thats a bit of humour but you get my point) no job is worth killing yourself or others for
30

My ten pen’orth:

In the absence of any workable way of tracking commuting time, 15 hour shifts and/or 9 hour Rests should only be permissible when away from home. No, I have no idea how this could be enforced.

It’s about time some serious efforts were made to keep shifts down to 8-10 hours working time. A good starting position might be to abolish POA and to actually enforce the WTD limits that already exist. Such enforcement to result in the company, not the driver, being sanctioned.

The rules should be different for trampers and “day men” (by which I mean those who go home between shifts, regardless of the time of day/night they work).

31

Stanley Mitchell:

Winseer:
Being obliged to work 3x15 hour shifts on the spin with minimum 9 hour rest periods - and then spending 2 hours each way on the commute!

I reported the last firm to do that to me (I pulled the plug on the rest of the week’s agency shifts thursday morning when I got home dead beat…)

A few months later - said firm - won a bloody award for “efficiency”! Go figure! :frowning:

Out of interest, who said YES to the two hour commute each way ?

I said yes to what should have been a 45 minute commute, 10 hour job, starting around 9pm. The start time was moved forward to 6pm, which involved me coming in during rush hour traffic, taking double the time.
I booked off at 9am, and then had to drive home through the morning traffic as well.

Medway to Aerodrome Estate, Croydon. 45 minutes in the middle of the night, otherwise…

If I was a mug - it was for agreeing to come in 3 hours early in the evening rush hour to a locale inside the M25 in a different county. :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :blush:
All for £13ph, which seemed a lot back in 2011.

32

manalishi:

Winseer:
Being obliged to work 3x15 hour shifts on the spin with minimum 9 hour rest periods - and then spending 2 hours each way on the commute!

I reported the last firm to do that to me (I pulled the plug on the rest of the week’s agency shifts thursday morning when I got home dead beat…)

A few months later - said firm - won a bloody award for “efficiency”! Go figure! :frowning:

More power to yer elbow sire for stepping up to the plate appropo the casual brutalities at large.
In league with my 12 on 12 off brave new world manifesto,I would like to see a max daily drive of 8 hours,with 2x 9s instead of the current 2x10s.I would also merge trunking with tramping to get round the commute home.Thats right folks a trumper.

Longer shifts - bring down the cost of commuting.
Shorter shifts - increase it.

Ideally, I reckon we should all be on 4x10 hour shifts, making for a 40 hour week, with overtime for coming in on day 5, or running late on days 1-4.

12x4 isn’t a problem when it is an overnight shift, and you get some shuteye on the turnaround break at the other end.

I would agree that a max of 8 hours seems like a good idea - if you are working exactly 5 shifts per week AND your yard is local to where you live.