mac12:
How could you go and work self employed for someone without letting them know you terms in writing.
Speculative email to companies. Should you get a response then you talk t’s & c’s. Common practice.
mugshot:
What I would like to know would it be a good idea to draw up some sort of contract ie weekly pay and my rates or anything else?
Include everything, and detail it specifically, because if the worst comes to the worst you will only have this contract to fall back on.
LHD.
This is exactly why i suggested the original poster reading IR35 and making his own interpretation that he is willing to defend to hmrc. Most of the stuff posted i believe to be opinion much of which is from posters who believe this type of work is all thats wrong with our job and want to rubbish it.
If i had acted on what i had read on here and other parts of the internet I would have been scared to death of going limited and working direct. As it is I have read IR35 and believe what i do i can actively defend if asked to by the hmrc.
At the end of the day what someone thinks on here matters little, its what hmrc thinks that counts albeit they don’t make it clear. We are all big boys and girls and need to take responsibility for it our selves. Advice is fine but in this case it involves hmrc and legal compliance, each individual needs to be sure and look at IR35 themselves. X on Y forum said it will be OK or my agent made me do it will not impress a judge.
PS hidng behind an accountant wont cut it either. You are the director and will be held responsible. Ltd can only protect you if the hmrc comes after the company, it is more likely they would come after you as an employee for under paid tax.
calsdad:
LHD.This is exactly why i suggested the original poster reading IR35 and making his own interpretation that he is willing to defend to hmrc. Most of the stuff posted i believe to be opinion much of which is from posters who believe this type of work is all thats wrong with our job and want to rubbish it.
If i had acted on what i had read on here and other parts of the internet I would have been scared to death of going limited and working direct. As it is I have read IR35 and believe what i do i can actively defend if asked to by the hmrc.
At the end of the day what someone thinks on here matters little, its what hmrc thinks that counts albeit they don’t make it clear. We are all big boys and girls and need to take responsibility for it our selves. Advice is fine but in this case it involves hmrc and legal compliance, each individual needs to be sure and look at IR35 themselves. X on Y forum said it will be OK or my agent made me do it will not impress a judge.PS hidng behind an accountant wont cut it either. You are the director and will be held responsible. Ltd can only protect you if the hmrc comes after the company, it is more likely they would come after you as an employee for under paid tax.
I don’t disagree with you. My post was a response to the thread in general, not specifically your post.
Sorry LHD. Post sounds more snappy than it should have was adding support really.
Sometimes the tosh posted gets to you…
calsdad:
Sorry LHD. Post sounds more snappy than it should have was adding support really.Sometimes the tosh posted gets to you…
Plenty of that to be found on this site bud!
It’s the tosh round IR35 that gets my steam rising. I suspect that the majority of it comes from employed drivers with an issue with the agency/self employed model.
Stick within the laws where they are clear, where they are less than clear show you tried. Hmrc have had that many staff cuts over the past 20 years they struggle to cope with the real serious intentional fraud - know a VAT inspector so fact not rumour - in the past 10 years his office has gone from 40 experienced investigators to 2 senior men and 8 (cheaper) graduates.
In all the posts on here on IR35 etc I’ve never seen one mention a visit from the hmrc that has resulted in a bill. Not advising fraud, just pointing out it’s not worth losing sleep over. The hmrc budget does not allow for mass inspections of small turnover ltd companies. If they want things to change they will just change the rules. There are a lot easier targets, it contractors, management consultants et al u sing a limited company to hide in a similar fashion. Who do a fair percentage of them get their contracts off … the goverment. Cant see the hmrc making the goverment look silly at any time never mind in an election year…
calsdad:
It’s the tosh round IR35 that gets my steam rising. I suspect that the majority of it comes from employed drivers with an issue with the agency/self employed model.Stick within the laws where they are clear, where they are less than clear show you tried. Hmrc have had that many staff cuts over the past 20 years they struggle to cope with the real serious intentional fraud - know a VAT inspector so fact not rumour - in the past 10 years his office has gone from 40 experienced investigators to 2 senior men and 8 (cheaper) graduates.
In all the posts on here on IR35 etc I’ve never seen one mention a visit from the hmrc that has resulted in a bill. Not advising fraud, just pointing out it’s not worth losing sleep over. The hmrc budget does not allow for mass inspections of small turnover ltd companies. If they want things to change they will just change the rules. There are a lot easier targets, it contractors, management consultants et al u sing a limited company to hide in a similar fashion. Who do a fair percentage of them get their contracts off … the goverment. Cant see the hmrc making the goverment look silly at any time never mind in an election year…
+10 to this
It makes me laugh all the people who harp on about “fake self employment”, “Failing IR35 Regulations” etc. If you were to go by the black and white text written on the HMRC website regarding IR35 regulations then I would bet 95% would fail the self employment/Ltd Co. test in relation to “sending a substitute” and “being under the direct supervision” to name a couple of examples. I know I certainly would fail those because in the real world if at the places I currently contract to if I were to send my mate because I fancied going down the pub I know my mate would be turned away and I would never be asked back. On the other hand I would feel very confident were I ever to get investigated by proving I was not an employee because I do my own books every week, do my own tax and VAT returns, do my own payroll, don’t get holiday pay, don’t get sick pay, no company perks such as pension etc. I am under no obligation to accept any work, I negotiate my own pay rates, I pay for my own public liability insurance.
I’ve said in another post about the same topic but some of those examples you mention like IT Contractors, Management Consultants and the like charge and can earn a day what a lot of truck drivers will earn for a weeks work so if HMRC are going to target anyone then the lowly truck driver will be bottom of their radar. Not that there is any proof of HMRC investigating anyone except the big corporations it seems.
I tend to find what is written on these boards just the usual scare-mongering tactics used by the people who believe that they have to go and work for a boss for the rest of their lives and can’t see that working for yourself can be so much more rewarding.
tmcassett:
calsdad:
It’s the tosh round IR35 that gets my steam rising. I suspect that the majority of it comes from employed drivers with an issue with the agency/self employed model.Stick within the laws where they are clear, where they are less than clear show you tried. Hmrc have had that many staff cuts over the past 20 years they struggle to cope with the real serious intentional fraud - know a VAT inspector so fact not rumour - in the past 10 years his office has gone from 40 experienced investigators to 2 senior men and 8 (cheaper) graduates.
In all the posts on here on IR35 etc I’ve never seen one mention a visit from the hmrc that has resulted in a bill. Not advising fraud, just pointing out it’s not worth losing sleep over. The hmrc budget does not allow for mass inspections of small turnover ltd companies. If they want things to change they will just change the rules. There are a lot easier targets, it contractors, management consultants et al u sing a limited company to hide in a similar fashion. Who do a fair percentage of them get their contracts off … the goverment. Cant see the hmrc making the goverment look silly at any time never mind in an election year…
+10 to this
It makes me laugh all the people who harp on about “fake self employment”, “Failing IR35 Regulations” etc. If you were to go by the black and white text written on the HMRC website regarding IR35 regulations then I would bet 95% would fail the self employment/Ltd Co. test in relation to “sending a substitute” and “being under the direct supervision” to name a couple of examples. I know I certainly would fail those because in the real world if at the places I currently contract to if I were to send my mate because I fancied going down the pub I know my mate would be turned away and I would never be asked back. On the other hand I would feel very confident were I ever to get investigated by proving I was not an employee because I do my own books every week, do my own tax and VAT returns, do my own payroll, don’t get holiday pay, don’t get sick pay, no company perks such as pension etc. I am under no obligation to accept any work, I negotiate my own pay rates, I pay for my own public liability insurance.
I’ve said in another post about the same topic but some of those examples you mention like IT Contractors, Management Consultants and the like charge and can earn a day what a lot of truck drivers will earn for a weeks work so if HMRC are going to target anyone then the lowly truck driver will be bottom of their radar. Not that there is any proof of HMRC investigating anyone except the big corporations it seems.
I tend to find what is written on these boards just the usual scare-mongering tactics used by the people who believe that they have to go and work for a boss for the rest of their lives and can’t see that working for yourself can be so much more rewarding.
Glad it’s not just me. The industry and whole job economy is changing. Some people just cant accept it and try to go woth the flow. They prefer to kick and scream and harp on about what things used to be like.
I love the lets form a union and go on strike posts. Union action has achieved nothing for 30 odd years. You earn money for doing what employers want. They make money from doing what there customers want. The world will continue to change no matter what we do best to try and fit in.
[/quote]
On the other hand I would feel very confident were I ever to get investigated by proving I was not an employee because I do my own books every week, do my own tax and VAT returns, do my own payroll, don’t get holiday pay, don’t get sick pay, no company perks such as pension etc. I am under no obligation to accept any work, I negotiate my own pay rates, I pay for my own public liability insurance…
[/quote]
My thoughts exactly tmcassett What more evidence would they need, until i recently started my driving career i was self employed for over 20yrs in the construction industry & sometimes subcontracting to the same firms for 5,3 & 2 yrs at a time with no recourse, apart from that the current government have made a big song & dance about falling unemployment and a part of that is the large increase in the self employed so i can not see them shaking the one man band tree.
Regards,
Jeff. 
mugshot:
burnley-si:
and its also illegal to work for 1 company self employedI think you might be wrong with that one
No he ain’t. You only need to do 1 day per year elsewhere though & they can’t touch you.
Contraflow:
yorkshire terrier:
WTF happened to seeing or hearing about a job going to see the gaffer and working there full time.
Everything seems to be agency and self employed,it might suit some but I’d rather be on the books with a decent company+1
Trouble is it’s not just in driving, every job listed on the websites now you apply for involves signing up for some bullplop agency, who promise you the world then you never hear from again.
Annoying.