Fined in Spain for passenger in cab

[dieseldave]

Hi david1686, There’s an easy way to deal with the credibility issue raised by some posters if you’re up for it…

Why not scan the receipts for the fines you’ve paid, then post them as a pic so that we can all see them ■■

Just in case your scanner isn’t working, or you’re not sure how to post pics, then please don’t worry about that, cos you can just copy the writing from where the receipts tell you what the fine is for and post that instead.

If you do one of the above, it would silence those who are sceptical of your post and it would also allow us to learn.
Looking at your original post, and without me commenting as to whether I believe it, I’d suggest that whether (or not) any of us have heard of something isn’t really the relevant question if the ‘something’ actually exists, so now you have an opportunity to demonstrate it in a way of your choosing.

It’s your turn and I’ll keep an open mind until I see how you respond, so now it’s over to you mate.

[smudge123]

Hi david, i got stopped at Sandbach sat morning…i came over from Dublin as a passenger with another driver and picked a truck up from manchester, although they let me off (first time ever) he said i should of written on back of card as other work. never been fined for carrying a passenger though!!

[david1686]

dieseldave:
Hi david1686, There’s an easy way to deal with the credibility issue raised by some posters if you’re up for it…

Why not scan the receipts for the fines you’ve paid, then post them as a pic so that we can all see them ■■

Just in case your scanner isn’t working, or you’re not sure how to post pics, then please don’t worry about that, cos you can just copy the writing from where the receipts tell you what the fine is for and post that instead.

If you do one of the above, it would silence those who are sceptical of your post and it would also allow us to learn.
Looking at your original post, and without me commenting as to whether I believe it, I’d suggest that whether (or not) any of us have heard of something isn’t really the relevant question if the ‘something’ actually exists, so now you have an opportunity to demonstrate it in a way of your choosing.

It’s your turn and I’ll keep an open mind until I see how you respond, so now it’s over to you mate.

Hope your spanish is up to it …

"Circular el vehiculo resevado con dos conductores pero suivante con el disco del senor *** en el tacografo.
Tacografo con capacidad para dos discos. Conductor sin disco senor ***. "

Sancio € 3301,00. y immobilitzacio

[wheel_nut]

The conductor is obviously the driver, dos is obviously the number in the vehiculo, and the tacografo obviously has the capacity for dos discs.

But there is only one driver and one passenger. The other driver is not a driver, just some senor who has a licence.

In light of this fact I have cancelled my holidays with Siesta Sunrise Travel as I hold a PSV licence and me, her and the kids were going on a coach to Costalot Tadosh. As I am a law abiding citizen I do not want to be impounded just because I am travelling in the same vehiculo as the conductor.

Do furniture removal lorries have the capacidad to hold tres discos, because there are many companies use a driver and dos porters, both of whom hold an HGV licence and a digi card

[dieseldave]

david1686:
Hope your spanish is up to it …

"Circular el vehiculo resevado con dos conductores pero suivante con el disco del senor *** en el tacografo.
Tacografo con capacidad para dos discos. Conductor sin disco senor ***. "

Sancio € 3301,00. y immobilitzacio

Hi david1686, Thanks very much for that post and info.

I’ll be the first to admit that my Spanish is best described as just about useless.

I think I’ve got the gist of it now. It seems to me that the GC think that the second person was on board for the purpose of driving (or being available to drive) but you might well be able to prove that this wasn’t the case if the second person works for a different employer. However, we do have some experienced members who are fluent in Spanish and I’m fairly certain that you’ll receive some helpful advice quite soon.

Were you able to explain to the GC at the time you were stopped, or was there a language problem?

Just so you know that my post wasn’t malicious, let me know if anything like that happens in Germany and I’d probably be able to confirm it’s correct or get you your money back quite quickly. I designed my post to sort out the credibility issue and get you some proper advice from those in the know about Spanish procedures, which I believe you’ll now receive.

[harry_monk]

I was stopped a few months back in Denmark and I had my mate along for the ride, and the copper asked me for my disc, and for his disc, and I said “He doesn’t drive” and they accepted that straight away and just took my discs for inspection (whereupon they discovered that I am the laziest and most sleep-loving truck driver in Europe )

That should be the situation in your case, the fact that your passenger had a truck licence is a “situation unknown to the law”.

I do accept that it can be difficult to fight off a fine-crazed copper, I have had a long morning in a French lay-by insisting to a Flic that it was not a compulsory requirement to write your daily mileage on a tacho chart, just your start and finish mileages, while he made several phone calls to higher authorities. I battled off another copper who wanted to fine me for not keeping the chart in all night. But I could only do this because I speak French, otherwise I would have been stuffed.

Word on the Street is that the Spanish have started to extract massive fines, I heard of 2200 euros for going 15 minutes over the four and a half just this week.

[wheel_nut]

Harry Monk:
I was stopped a few months back in Denmark and I had my mate along for the ride, and the copper asked me for my disc, and for his disc, and I said “He doesn’t drive” and they accepted that straight away and just took my discs for inspection (whereupon they discovered that I am the laziest and most sleep-loving truck driver in Europe )

That should be the situation in your case, the fact that your passenger had a truck licence is a “situation unknown to the law”.

And that is the end of the matter!

[bigr250]

Wheel Nut:

Harry Monk:
I was stopped a few months back in Denmark and I had my mate along for the ride, and the copper asked me for my disc, and for his disc, and I said “He doesn’t drive” and they accepted that straight away and just took my discs for inspection (whereupon they discovered that I am the laziest and most sleep-loving truck driver in Europe )

That should be the situation in your case, the fact that your passenger had a truck licence is a “situation unknown to the law”.

And that is the end of the matter!

Or is it, would the ‘red cap wearing type’ fine the ‘second driver’ for not having a suitable licence if he’s only had authority to drive a car■■? These stupid fines have simply got to stop, they are totally out of sight of reality!!!

Ross.

[coffeeholic]

david1686:

Coffeeholic:

david1686:
I like the bag, but anyone who thinks it is an option to park a truck up for a few weeks to wait for a Court appearance is a complete idiot .

It wouldn’t be parked for weeks. Did you demand to see someone higher up the food chain? That’s the first step. Did you ask to see this ‘European Law’ in writing? Of course they threaten you with parking you up etc but that is just to con you into paying. Sounds like you just rolled over and took it and every time a driver does that it just makes it easier for them to continue with this con.

You obviously are a complete idiot who has no idea what is like to deal with the Guardia Civil at the roadside.

Wrong, had many dealings with them and never paid any fine to them, despite their best efforts on occasion. I’ve done a lot of work delivering and installing telecom and computer equipment all over Europe,including more times than I can remember in Barcelona, Bilbao, Santander and Madrid, where I had another person with me to assist with the unloading, unpacking and positioning of the equipment. Sometimes they had a licence and sometimes they didn’t but any time I was stopped in a control I just told the officer it was one driver and one passenger. This was always accepted, including in France and Spain where they do like to try it on with fines for BS offences.

david1686:
Naturally I questioned the fine , made him speak to his supervisor and consulted with the on duty lawyer at the fine guarantee company. All to no avail … the truck stays until the fine is dealt with.

A lawyer told you to pay a fine for a non offence? There is no European Law on this and as you cannot break a non existent law you cannot be fined. If this is true, which based on your previous posts I doubt, you have have been had. They looked for a mug and they found a willing one in you.

david1686:
I don’t know how much experience you have of driving in Spain but I would say from your posts that it is fairly minimal, and would respectfully suggest that you do not comment on matters that you know nothing about

Funny how you are commenting on on that which you no nothing about.

FYI I have plenty of experience of driving in Spain thank you.

Look at the number of Spanish trucks you see where the driver has his missus along for the ride, I was on the train yesterday with a couple of them. Do you think they are getting big fines because -

david1686:
truck is not a car or a bus , it’s only for work.

According to you story they should be because she should have a card in if she has and if she doesn’t have the licence she shouldn’t be there.

[routier]

ridiculoso!!!

I think you need to :

a: pack in driving
or
b: leave Spain
or
c: become a Spanish Copper 'cos they are earnin a packet out of you, more than you are earnin with ye own motor.

You are doing something seriously wrong, reckon the cops know you are an easy touch, must have ye details of ye mota recorded so stop ye as soon as they see ye.

I wouldnt have paid one cent.

[david1686]

routier:
ridiculoso!!!

I think you need to :

a: pack in driving
or
b: leave Spain
or
c: become a Spanish Copper 'cos they are earnin a packet out of you, more than you are earnin with ye own motor.

You are doing something seriously wrong, reckon the cops know you are an easy touch, must have ye details of ye mota recorded so stop ye as soon as they see ye.

I wouldnt have paid one cent.

Very helpful response.

Perhaps you could find someone who can write in English to translate it for us.

[routier]

david1686:

routier:
ridiculoso!!!

I think you need to :

a: pack in driving
or
b: leave Spain
or
c: become a Spanish Copper 'cos they are earnin a packet out of you, more than you are earnin with ye own motor.

You are doing something seriously wrong, reckon the cops know you are an easy touch, must have ye details of ye mota recorded so stop ye as soon as they see ye.

I wouldnt have paid one cent.

Very helpful response.

Perhaps you could find someone who can write in English to translate it for us.

ok, in English for you, (no offence intended):

I do believe that :

a: You cease to drive in Spain
b: You leave Spain
c: You join the Spanish Police Force so that your income may be substantially higher compared to your present income driving Articulated Vehicles.

I do believe my good learned friend that you may be doing something of which you are unaware as the Spanish Police seem to exploit you, maybe they have your vehicle details recorded on their database and they are alerted as soon as your vehicle is located.

I would not have paid any money to them at all.

[bullitt]

[welshboyinspain]

i don’t wish to question whether this is a genuine story or not that has been done by others but if my boss meets me because i can’t quite get back to malaga i don’t travel in the truck for this reason about 2nd drivers card must be in machine so i go in the car with his son, however i do think the fine is

1. stupidly priced why the odd 1 on the end
2. not enforceable immediately as you should be given a “precepto infringido” to pay and if paid within 30 days you get a discount of 30% so how would you pay 30% of the odd one euro?
   for example a fine of 150 euros becomes 105 after discount applied.
   if you did pay on the spot you should have qualified for the 30% discount.
   alternatively you should have kicked the other guy out for that much money he could have taken a taxi all the way to barca

[coffeeholic]

welshboyinspain:
so how would you pay 30% of the odd one euro?

30 cents. Simples.

[harry_monk]

Having reflected on this, I am speculating that the Police are saying that since the passenger was in the vehicle in the course of his duties, he should have kept a record of his activity. Vosa gave me a minor lecture once because I finished for the weekend in Aylesford, and started on Monday in Sittingbourne,

When asked why, I explained that I had dropped the truck off at Volvo for a service. They then asked me how I got back to our yard, and I explained that my boss had picked me up in his car, and they told me I should have made a manual entry for my time in the car as it was work related. They didn’t nick me tho, just gave a friendly enough warning.

However, in the scenario described by the OP, this should be the passenger’s problem, and not the driver’s.

[wheel_nut]

Harry Monk:
Having reflected on this, I am speculating that the Police are saying that since the passenger was in the vehicle in the course of his duties, he should have kept a record of his activity. Vosa gave me a minor lecture once because I finished for the weekend in Aylesford, and started on Monday in Sittingbourne,

When asked why, I explained that I had dropped the truck off at Volvo for a service. They then asked me how I got back to our yard, and I explained that my boss had picked me up in his car, and they told me I should have made a manual entry for my time in the car as it was work related. They didn’t nick me tho, just gave a friendly enough warning.

However, in the scenario described by the OP, this should be the passenger’s problem, and not the driver’s.

Again Harry has hit the nail on the head, the EU regulations very clearly state the scenario HM described above and the Skills Coaches case was the definitive decider.

But if the driver in Spain was legal, the other driver (sorry passenger) was not a driver, but a hitchhiker, then, as Harry correctly stated, it was he (non employee) who may have had to defend his actions later in the week or month.

[dieseldave]

Harry Monk:
… However, in the scenario described by the OP, this should be the passenger’s problem, and not the driver’s.

Hi HM, IMHO, That’s right on target.

IIRC, there’s nothing in 561/2006 to say that the driver is responsible for the passenger in the OP’s scenario, but I think it would be very interesting to get Vascoingles comments on this.

Since david1686 didn’t tell us yet, I’m still wondering what Article and paragraph number was written on the receipt, then with Vasco’s comments maybe we’ll all learn something from a better understanding of Spanish procedures.

[harry_monk]

It is important to realise though that you will often be stopped by Police officers who quite simply do not understand the Law.

Twice, I have refused to pay the demanded fine, and both times the Police eventually backed down when further enquiries revealed that they were wrong and I was right. I am sure that both Police officers involved had previously fined many more complaisant drivers for these same non-offences.

[jimti]

Harry Monk:
I was stopped a few months back in Denmark and I had my mate along for the ride, and the copper asked me for my disc, and for his disc, and I said “He doesn’t drive” and they accepted that straight away and just took my discs for inspection (whereupon they discovered that I am the laziest and most sleep-loving truck driver in Europe )

Funny thing happened to me earlier this week, I was stopped by a GC near Alicante and on inspection of my cards asked if my passenger did any driving, (he didn’t) when I said I was the only driver he asked me if my boss actually made any money. We have to work to a schedule, and this trip it was very spaced out, so I was only driving a few hours each day.
The GC didn’t ask to see my passengers licence, and I didn’t bring up the fact that he may or may not have had one, but I have seen him drive in the past, and there is no way he was ever going to get the opportunity to drive my truck with me sitting in the passenger seat