Thanks for all the support, a few whiskeys got me to sleep last night but it was the first thought in my head this morning, so I got up at 6 am and got myself a much needed cuppa.
To be honest I do and will feel bad about this for a while, but will make a positive out of it, I will take a refresher course in CPR and mouth to mouth and in future will stop if I’m uncomfortable about what I see at the scene of an accident.
I’ve had a few P.M.s and have responded, although one seemed to get stuck in my outbox, (I think its gone now he may have a few replies from me ) and would like to thank them for their thoughts.
It really doesn’t help that I went past the horrific accident on the M4 at J19 on Sunday morning not long after it had happened (opposite carriageway), it just gets you thinking about mortality and how it could be someone you love next time.
The fact you feel the way you do reflects well on you, sounds as if there was nothing you could have done. I had a brief chat with a guy who was going through a similar situation to me at the time, within a couple of days he shot another man and took his own life, for a while I wondered if there was something I could have said or done, maybe just talked to him for a little longer that would have changed things. In the end you can’t save everyone and none of us are all seeing all knowing ‘gods’ and I don’t know anyone who can see the future. We just have to do what we can.
I strongly believe that First Aid should be a compulsory part of schooling, in time we’d have a huge part of the population as first aiders, just think of the lives that would be saved
I know it wont help you much, but it was stated that advanced life support was used (ALS) and that is much much more involved than basic life support (BLS) which is what is usually carried out by first aiders.
These kinds of things always bring home the finality and fragility of life. First aid and BLS are there to give people a chance and not a guarantee. We can only help give others a chance and unfortunately it seems in this case there was nothing anyone could do no matter how experienced they were or how quickly they were on the scene.
Still sad to see and will keep some people awake for a few nights. As has been said before there were others in attendance already doing there best to help. I don’t think you could have done anymore and the outcome would unfortunately have been the same.
i echo what previous posters have said
nothing you could have done mate
RIP poor lady
and i read the car driver has been arrested for dangerous driving
imagine how he feels
he could have done nothing wrong
maybe overtaking a slow car on a safe stretch of road
when the bike came speeding from the opposite direction
he never went out that day to kill someone
yet he will have sleepless nights for the rest of his life
Harry Monk:
I did an A level in Law at college many years ago,this was something covered in great depth on the syllabus, and unless the law has changed since then, and I don’t think it has, you cannot be sued for attempting to perform first aid on somebody, even if you get it wrong and they die or end up with worse injuries as a result of your attempts to help them.
That is correct. That is what I teach to my First Aid pupils.
cheers
Paul
You stop…“what if I had got there sooner”…“assessed things quicker”…“done this first instead of that”.
It’s a traumatic thing to see and made worse by meeting at the roundabout earlier, easy to say you did nothing wrong but it doesn’t feel like it right now and that probably won’t change for a while. It might be worth having a word with your GP, I went through something a few years ago, different scenario but my GP could see how I had been affected when I couldn’t.
Gouls:
The “what if” scenario crops up whatever you do
You carry on…“what if I had stopped to help”
You stop…“what if I had got there sooner”…“assessed things quicker”…“done this first instead of that”.
It’s a traumatic thing to see and made worse by meeting at the roundabout earlier, easy to say you did nothing wrong but it doesn’t feel like it right now and that probably won’t change for a while. It might be worth having a word with your GP, I went through something a few years ago, different scenario but my GP could see how I had been affected when I couldn’t.
Thanks for that.
I still know in hindsight that what I saw as I passed the accident site made me uncomfortable. I’m absolutely sure now that with my first aid training I should have stopped.
I accept that I may have made no difference, but there will always be the doubt in my mind that I could have perfomed CPR and mouth to mouth until the paramedics got there (i was very aware that no-one was doing this), which could have made a difference. She still had her crash helmet on which would imply to me that either she was in the best hands or no-one had checked to see if she was breathing or had a pulse (I suspect the latter, and did at the time). It may be that the only reason that the avanced CPR they performed didnt work because she was already dead due to oxgygen starvation to the brain, due to the fact she was not given mouth to mouth and manual CPR.
I will never know if I could have helped her and regret that, I dont have a time machine so can’t do anything about what I didn’t do, however I will stop and at least check that the victim has the best possible help in future.
I would rather regret not being able to save a life than not trying.
It’s always best to keep any fist aid qualification current. I done my refresher earlier this year, and for the first time I was taught helmet removal in order to conduct CPR. This has always been something that concerned me, however my refresher has put my mind at rest about it.
During the refresher it was also pointed out that no court in the land will uphold a neglegence claim when performing life critical first aid.
As for this incident, Don’t beat yourself up. What you are experiencing is as previously stated the ‘what if’ part of the experience. You are reflecting on a multitude of scenarios with the benefit of hindsight, much as most of have when we suddenly realise we can’t remember the last 10 miles, or have a near miss of some description. I’d say that given she still had her helmet on, she was probably deceased by the time you passed.
I would also contact the police if they are seeking informaation. If you observed her conducting a safe and proficient overtake of your vehicle immediately before whatever incident brought her to grief, it may be a small part of a larger picture indicating she was riding in a responsible manner, and was possibly not to blame.
I had a very similar situation a few years ago, thankfully there were knowledgeable people there that did the CPR till the ambulance turned up 20 minutes later, The biggest help I could be was to ask a bulk tanker driver to block the road to stop the idiots trying to come through and direct them around. It was a very traumatic scene, and I’ll freely admit I had some tearful moments both on the bunk at the time and for a couple of days afterwards, as it brought back memories of my brother and two very good friends that have died in motorbike accidents. Even with stopping at the scene ( I had to nor could I leave till the investigation was over as I couldn’t turn around) there was a feeling of complete helplessness, fortunately I have good supporting friends, and at the time artic drivers behind me were generous with their brews and humour. Unfortunately the why’s & what if’s stay with you, but they do fade. I can only echo what others have said and I would get in contact with the police to give them your observations as I did.
I did a very basic first aid course (one day) which has given me the confidence and knowledge to do some very basic tasks including CPR. I have also been told that there wouldn’t be any prosecution following first aid administered in good faith. My first aid is valid for 3 years, and counted for 7 hours for my CPC, it’s by far the most useful course I have done to date. If anyone would like details of a course in W.Yorks, pls pm.
The laws of average deem this very likely to happen to a professional driver sooner or later, mine happened 20 or so years ago and although it didn’t involve a fatality I found it very upsetting and I can recall it like it was yesterday, I’m glad I read your post as I’ve been thinking of getting on of these lately I hope it sits in my kit bag till the end of time but you never know. ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Auto-Wind … 0944827389 maybe we should all get one.
schrodingers cat:
Maybe if firms were to teach first aid to drivers, that would save lives.
Unfortunately in today’s litigious society that won’t happen.
I did an A level in Law at college many years ago,this was something covered in great depth on the syllabus, and unless the law has changed since then, and I don’t think it has, you cannot be sued for attempting to perform first aid on somebody, even if you get it wrong and they die or end up with worse injuries as a result of your attempts to help them.
I did a first aid refresher recently and i believe it can be a case of help someone and you could be accused of assault as previously said where theres blame theres a claim i would asess individual cases of first aid if situation arises
I believe that you can end up accused of assault, but that is more likely from a misunderstanding rather than causing further injury. For example checking a ladies’ leg for breaks/lacerations without communicating with her first may land you in the ■■■, HOWEVER this situation is accounted for in the training.
) and would like to thank them for their thoughts.