Fed up! Agency paye/ltd?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

Maybe my logic is failing me, but if a driver has an £800/month mortgage, surely he would want to be in a position to ensure money will be coming in to pay it…no?? Who will pay it if the agency fails to generate enough work for him??

Then you say the agency bod get 50% more. Here in sunny Grangemouth, the agency drivers get about £1 more than the regular drivers with the local hauliers. Not convinced that would be worth jumping ship for!

The muppet known as Conor (why does your post sound like he may have a second username??) was shouting about having big balls, then it turns out he’s on a tenner an hour at a place where the regulars rake in £41k/year.

At our place, agency drivers aren’t there all year round, they’re picked up at Xmas & dropped again in January & they’re not on more £££’s than us.

I remain unconvinced (and in full time employment) :unamused:

62

Carl Usher:
I wouldn’t have worded it quite the way he has, but he is right! :astonished: And that is the reason why all the permies replying are up in arms because there’s nothing they hate more than seeing agency drivers in all year round doing the same work as themselves for ~50% more brass because they know how to play the game. You will hear it in haulage yards the length and breadth of the country, “how come all these agency are in? I only got 50 hours last week and no nights out. If we didn’t have all these agency in we could be doing that work”. Yet when you suggest to them that they too could be having a slice of the same cake, “oh no mate, I couldn’t do it, I need the security as I’ve got an £800/month mortgage and 3 kids”. :unamused: So absolutely nothing to do with insecurity then… :bulb:

The few that do decide to jack in and go on the agency circuit last all of 5 mins because they expect to get all the cream work right off the bat and when that doesn’t materialise they go grovelling for their old job back, tell anyone that’ll listen that all agencies are scum and maliciously wait in the wings for the next [zb] up to happen and immediately blame it on the agency driver in order to feel better about their own shortcomings.

That is the real truth of the matter.

A couple of points to clarify here from my point of view.
If you are getting 50% more than full time drivers good luck to you mate, but in my area as I said previous, there is not THAT much differential between agency and full time.

Up in arms? bleating me?, :laughing: …no mate … in real terms I couldn’t give a flying one what you Conor or anyone else is on, but if Conor is on 10 to 10.50 an hour, then I am on the same, and yeh, that dirty word you guys talk about ‘security’ is an added bonus in my view, so I will stick where I am for now.

I am back at work next Wed after my fortnights paid hol, I know even if the job is jack ■■■■ dead I will be guaranteed 10 hr days.
Unless I’m mistaken agency work is flat as a ■■■■ for two months, so that is where maybe the yearly rate comparison equates eh?

You appear to have been in the game for a while, surely you agree that agencies have a lot to do with declining conditions for drivers, if agencies were not on the scene would there be such a thing as zero hour contracts in haulage for eg? we both remember when they did not exist in this job, and if they were not in the position they are today, would full time jobs not be paid at a better rate.

As I said mate, it’s all about what suits who, I hate agencies but nothing to do with jealousy as you imply, and they are certainly not the panacea for all that is wrong with transport as our mate Conor likes to tell us.

63

Agency driving work existed 25 years ago and I used to do a little then, but it was an entirely different beast to what it is nowadays. Back then it would be full weeks guaranteed, either for holiday cover, filling in for long term illness cover, or for long term peaks in particular industries.

Nowadays it is common practice for companies to cancel the full week’s booking at very short notice and leave you with a short week. Some other badly run companies just think they can pick up the phone and have a driver there in ten minutes, irrespective of what time of the day (or night) it is, or wherever they are located.

Then you have the endless rogue agencies out there, that will try to drag the unwary in with promises of work they don’t actually have, only to offer the utter crud that is multi-drop foodservice, builders merchants or double manned heavy home deliveries that nobody in their right mind actually wants. Along the way they’ll also probably try to push you onto some questionable ‘Umbrella’ payment scheme, that could leave you seriously out of pocket. Reading the paperwork of one such scheme (not driving), they were suggesting the operative could be responsible for any losses or damages caused… :open_mouth:

In the real world outside of the forum bull, most agency drivers I know don’t actually have continuous work. It simply not the nature of the beast anymore.

64

I’ve said on here numerous times when this agency debate comes up.
L G is right, the advent of agencies in transport in the 80s was much different (not to mention better for drivers) than todays ■■■■ about…that is prevalent in most cases today.

Drivers worked on a ‘hiring out their services’ basis, and were respected thus.
That is of course if they could attract decent ones, most were either useless, newbies, or useless newbies. Damage was done and they were a bit of a joke.
Then things evolved over the years, until we have the situation today, where they, not the drivers, call the shots, and in a lot of cases hold the drivers to ransom.
The days of the (good) drivers having the upper hand are long gone the tables turned and the rest is agency history

65

busteredwards:
Maybe my logic is failing me, but if a driver has an £800/month mortgage, surely he would want to be in a position to ensure money will be coming in to pay it…no?? Who will pay it if the agency fails to generate enough work for him??

Then you say the agency bod get 50% more. Here in sunny Grangemouth, the agency drivers get about £1 more than the regular drivers with the local hauliers. Not convinced that would be worth jumping ship for!

The muppet known as Conor (why does your post sound like he may have a second username??) was shouting about having big balls, then it turns out he’s on a tenner an hour at a place where the regulars rake in £41k/year.

At our place, agency drivers aren’t there all year round, they’re picked up at Xmas & dropped again in January & they’re not on more £££’s than us.

I remain unconvinced (and in full time employment) :unamused:

A few discrepancies there fella
The rate difference at Mitchells is now over £2 per hour with the agency that I was in there with. Admittedly a different agency paid substantially less
Your place (albeit Falkirk, not grangemouth) kept me going from November until may before I had to go elsewhere although I suspect that my concerns about changes within the agency were more to blame

66

The reason agencies have all the power nowadays is because drivers, as per usual have no balls. They are simply grateful of the work the agency offer and dare not upset the agency for fear of not getting any work that week because Doris has taken offence at your refusal to do the ■■■■ job she offered you.

You can keep working if you are of the right mindset and skillset. I, along with a couple of others have been frequenting the same company for five years solid now without break much to the full time drivers dislike but hey ho, I don’t give a flying one about them.
I’m not going to go down the defending ■■■■ route again but needless to say it can be a successful route should you know how to do it and I’m certainly not going to tell you how or offer any tips because it always inadvertently comes back to bite me on the arse.

67

scanny77:

busteredwards:
Maybe my logic is failing me, but if a driver has an £800/month mortgage, surely he would want to be in a position to ensure money will be coming in to pay it…no?? Who will pay it if the agency fails to generate enough work for him??

Then you say the agency bod get 50% more. Here in sunny Grangemouth, the agency drivers get about £1 more than the regular drivers with the local hauliers. Not convinced that would be worth jumping ship for!

The muppet known as Conor (why does your post sound like he may have a second username??) was shouting about having big balls, then it turns out he’s on a tenner an hour at a place where the regulars rake in £41k/year.

At our place, agency drivers aren’t there all year round, they’re picked up at Xmas & dropped again in January & they’re not on more £££’s than us.

I remain unconvinced (and in full time employment) :unamused:

A few discrepancies there fella
The rate difference at Mitchells is now over £2 per hour with the agency that I was in there with. Admittedly a different agency paid substantially less
Your place (albeit Falkirk, not grangemouth) kept me going from November until may before I had to go elsewhere although I suspect that my concerns about changes within the agency were more to blame

Maybe the agency drivers who were at Mitchells when I worked there were signed up to this ‘different’ agency you mention, because the few lads I spoke to were on more or less one pound/hour more. Even your whopping £2/hour is a far cry from the 50% more being mentioned on here!

The 14 agency drivers taken on by my place (which is the Falkirk depot) will be gone by saturday, along with most of the old red/white ex Stobart Xmas hire fleet. You do know more drivers were recently taken on in order to minimise the need for any agency drivers?

68

This worked for me:
sign on with two agencies
ensure second agency knows your primary agency has first call on you.
establish a good, friendly, personal relationship with both agencies.
Register a limited company (£20) but keep it dormant. ie you just have the registered number to keep the agencies happy
raise a weekly invoice to the agency. ie you are saying how much you are paid unless the agency has a genuine query
join the URTU to give you cheap legal protection in case of injury at work etc.
keep note/receipt for EVERY bit of expense.
Do a self assessment tax return each year (doddle)

69

Truckbling:
The reason agencies have all the power nowadays is because drivers, as per usual have no balls. They are simply grateful of the work the agency offer and dare not upset the agency for fear of not getting any work that week because Doris has taken offence at your refusal to do the [zb] job she offered you.

You can keep working if you are of the right mindset and skillset. I, along with a couple of others have been frequenting the same company for five years solid now without break much to the full time drivers dislike but hey ho, I don’t give a flying one about them.
I’m not going to go down the defending [zb] route again but needless to say it can be a successful route should you know how to do it and I’m certainly not going to tell you how or offer any tips because it always inadvertently comes back to bite me on the arse.

Agree with you (that’s a first :smiley: ) on first paragraph. That was my point about agencies having too much power, many drivers are ■■■■ scared of them.

You say you don’t give a flying one about the other drivers on the firm full time. Yeh I see your point, but you may find they are the same about you, most full timers realise the problems caused to them lies with the agency not the agency drivers.
I hate agencies for what they have done to the job, but I have not got the slightest problem with their drivers :bulb:

As for biting you on the arse in the past, …it’s hardly surprising mate when you came on here a few weeks ago telling us you are…
quote; …“On a grand a week for doing nothing and lying in your bed all day” :open_mouth: Now that is bound to raise a few questions (that you never answered)

I aint tech minded enough to post a link but sure someone will be, see ‘‘Veteran drivers who cant reverse’’ thread.

As I said before it’s what suits the individual driver, we are all in the same boat, just in it to make a living, but in all different ways.

70

busteredwards:
The 14 agency drivers taken on by my place (which is the Falkirk depot) will be gone by saturday, along with most of the old red/white ex Stobart Xmas hire fleet. You do know more drivers were recently taken on in order to minimise the need for any agency drivers?

Thank God… No more “Clutch down” and hunting for a fuel key!!! :grimacing:

71

G6Bob:

busteredwards:
The 14 agency drivers taken on by my place (which is the Falkirk depot) will be gone by saturday, along with most of the old red/white ex Stobart Xmas hire fleet. You do know more drivers were recently taken on in order to minimise the need for any agency drivers?

Thank God… No more “Clutch down” and hunting for a fuel key!!! :grimacing:

I’v never seen a clutch pedal for days :smiley:

By the way…where’s Clydebank?? lol :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

72

The use of the word security keeps making me laugh.

Does anybody actually think it means anything. The only real reason for the life of a company coming to an end is that it makes losses and goes bust. At which point you get nothing and don’t have a job … City Link …

The only other security is having work daily to go to. So effectively having some sort of guarantee on your weekly/monthly/annual wage. That is what this debate boils down to. Some need that security … some don’t.

If being in the don’t camp makes me a filthy limper that is responsible for all vehicle damage, that cant find his way home so be it.

For me the best bit of being agency scum is going to different companies and listening to the various employed drivers moaning about every single aspect of their jobs. I always have the option to tell them to stick the job/run/company the wrong way up their one way street. That is something that I value more than security.

73

busteredwards:
The muppet known as Conor (why does your post sound like he may have a second username??) was shouting about having big balls, then it turns out he’s on a tenner an hour at a place where the regulars rake in £41k/year.

That company is an anomoly and doesn’t make their money from transport. £10hr in East Yorkshire is a couple of quid an hour more than most hauliers are paying on PAYE

At our place, agency drivers aren’t there all year round, they’re picked up at Xmas & dropped again in January & they’re not on more £££’s than us.

At where I am they’re there all year round. I’ve already been told I’m back on 4th January. Same with things like Stobart Tesco contracts. The only time I’ve not had work in the last 2 years on agency since starting driving again is when I’ve wanted time off.

74

calsdad:
The use of the word security keeps making me laugh.

Does anybody actually think it means anything. The only real reason for the life of a company coming to an end is that it makes losses and goes bust. At which point you get nothing and don’t have a job … City Link …

The only other security is having work daily to go to. So effectively having some sort of guarantee on your weekly/monthly/annual wage. That is what this debate boils down to. Some need that security … some don’t.

If being in the don’t camp makes me a filthy limper that is responsible for all vehicle damage, that cant find his way home so be it.

For me the best bit of being agency scum is going to different companies and listening to the various employed drivers moaning about every single aspect of their jobs. I always have the option to tell them to stick the job/run/company the wrong way up their one way street. That is something that I value more than security.

No job today is secure, I can’t argue with that.
I personally thought on two seperate occasions that I had a job for life, one lasting 10yrs outbased at home by a Colchester firm, the boss retired, one outbased by a Belgium co where I was made redundant.

My present job, a local branch of a South based co for 6 yrs.
I know it could also go ■■■■ up tomorrow (although unlikely) but surely you can not argue that you as an agency driver have anything like the same element of security (whether you condider it important or not) as me.
I aint trying to start a contest, just stating facts, saying it as it is.

Me personally, it would do my head in going to different firms every day on different motors, doing different work.
I prefer having my own allocated truck as a tramper, and if it’s a quid less so be it.
I aint saying I’m incapable of doing that type of varied work :unamused: it aint exactly difficult when you are an exp driver ffs.(although some agency men on here try make out they are doing something difficult :smiley: ) but if it suits you mate that’s all that matters.

75

Robroy, sometimes when i get in a hangin unit i know what you mean. Nothing worse than sitting in a filthy cab that stinks of stale ■■■■. It’s about the only thing that does get me down.

I’m lucky to live in an area where there is a lot of transport so within a 25 mile drive I get plenty of options for most of the year. I did research this before i spent my £3k.

This will sound big headed but not meant to. When i go somewhere i normally get offered a job. Latest is the new sponsors on the right where i have been for the xmas money. I just cant bring myself to commit to the drudgery of being on a rota doing the same work week in week out. I have turned down 3 jobs this year and 4 last year. It’s just not for me. coping with the lack of security for the last two years has meant i have only had to work around 40 weeks to hit my earnings target. The time off may not always be when i want but for me the extra 7 weeks over an employed position is valuable.

If my situation changes and i have to take a full time job for security, it will definitely be for a company that assigns me a unit. Spending a day in other peoples filth is without doubt the worst bit of being agency scum.

76

robroy:

Truckbling:
The reason agencies have all the power nowadays is because drivers, as per usual have no balls. They are simply grateful of the work the agency offer and dare not upset the agency for fear of not getting any work that week because Doris has taken offence at your refusal to do the [zb] job she offered you.

You can keep working if you are of the right mindset and skillset. I, along with a couple of others have been frequenting the same company for five years solid now without break much to the full time drivers dislike but hey ho, I don’t give a flying one about them.
I’m not going to go down the defending [zb] route again but needless to say it can be a successful route should you know how to do it and I’m certainly not going to tell you how or offer any tips because it always inadvertently comes back to bite me on the arse.

Agree with you (that’s a first :smiley: ) on first paragraph. That was my point about agencies having too much power, many drivers are [zb] scared of them.

You say you don’t give a flying one about the other drivers on the firm full time. Yeh I see your point, but you may find they are the same about you, most full timers realise the problems caused to them lies with the agency not the agency drivers.
I hate agencies for what they have done to the job, but I have not got the slightest problem with their drivers :bulb:

As for biting you on the arse in the past, …it’s hardly surprising mate when you came on here a few weeks ago telling us you are…
quote; …“On a grand a week for doing nothing and lying in your bed all day” :open_mouth: Now that is bound to raise a few questions (that you never answered)

I aint tech minded enough to post a link but sure someone will be, see ‘‘Veteran drivers who cant reverse’’ thread.

As I said before it’s what suits the individual driver, we are all in the same boat, just in it to make a living, but in all different ways.

As requested by Robroy, a link to the page Veteran drivers who can't reverse - THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE) - Trucknet UK

77

Don’t forget the agency will cancel you during their quiet periods and then give your booking to someone else, just to keep everyone “happy.” :unamused:

78

Only been cancelled once in 5 years and that was by the company (since been taken over by DX) at the last minute and I still got paid. Can honestly say I haven’t had a quiet spell but then from late April to mid September it’s been more a case of ‘let me know when you’re available’ and filling in last minute stuff if I can, so I don’t know if there’s a lull during those months.

79

robroy:
Agree with you (that’s a first :smiley: ) on first paragraph. That was my point about agencies having too much power, many drivers are [zb] scared of them.

You say you don’t give a flying one about the other drivers on the firm full time. Yeh I see your point, but you may find they are the same about you, most full timers realise the problems caused to them lies with the agency not the agency drivers.
I hate agencies for what they have done to the job, but I have not got the slightest problem with their drivers :bulb:

As for biting you on the arse in the past, …it’s hardly surprising mate when you came on here a few weeks ago telling us you are…
quote; …“On a grand a week for doing nothing and lying in your bed all day” :open_mouth: Now that is bound to raise a few questions (that you never answered)

I aint tech minded enough to post a link but sure someone will be, see ‘‘Veteran drivers who cant reverse’’ thread.

As I said before it’s what suits the individual driver, we are all in the same boat, just in it to make a living, but in all different ways.

I’m not going to respond on the other thread because like all cliques, they have gone into overdrive on that thread simply because they do not believe me.
When you look at what I actually do during my shift then compared to many other drivers, I do what most would class as “■■■■ all”.
Being self employed, I set my own rate, which is a lot higher than the average for this industry so for others to throw such abuse when they are not in position of any facts clearly demonstrates why most drivers are classed as a little lacking in the intelligence department. All they know how to do is throw insults at anything they do not believe or can’t accept.

As for being bitten on the arse, this was in reference to revealing information to full time drivers or trying to help other agency drivers out along the way. All you end up with is a knife in the back so I’ve learned its better to reveal nothing to anybody. On here is different because nobody knows me.