Expenses for nights on Agency work

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

dinosteveus1:
I have Friends who are Self Employed (with a Ltd Company) but work for the Agency, doing the same job as me. They invoice the Agency and get more than me.
I’m still learning, so hopefully, this work is a ‘stop gap’ sorta thing until I’ve learnt a bit more and I find the ‘right’ job for me. Otherwise I’d consider going Self Employed and start my own Company.

As for paying BAR2, if we use this payment company we get an extra quid an hour. I didn’t have enough ‘expenses’ when I first started and I was well out of pocket after paying their fees etc so I went onto PAYE, wow, that was even worse. Now I have to travel a long way to get to the Job my Agency has for me and this helps big time with my expenses. I’m happy with the wage, but I feel there must be more that can be claimed for that nobody knows about, or very few.

I think they are called ‘Umbrella Companies’, these Payment companies. The last ‘one’ I used was called Ducas/Maxipay.

this is what i am,i’m self employed as LTD company.i claim 40p per mile for going to work & back & £5 per day for meal allowance.i pay it to myself in my expenses at then end of month
i set myself up as a ltd company as the umbrella companies were taking the ■■■■ with the fees they charged.
i invoice agency every week & am paid week after no problems.been doing it since june last year.i work for a couple of agencies but also have a couple of firms i work direct for so get a few quid more from them

22

jrl driver:

dinosteveus1:
I have Friends who are Self Employed (with a Ltd Company) but work for the Agency, doing the same job as me. They invoice the Agency and get more than me.
I’m still learning, so hopefully, this work is a ‘stop gap’ sorta thing until I’ve learnt a bit more and I find the ‘right’ job for me. Otherwise I’d consider going Self Employed and start my own Company.

As for paying BAR2, if we use this payment company we get an extra quid an hour. I didn’t have enough ‘expenses’ when I first started and I was well out of pocket after paying their fees etc so I went onto PAYE, wow, that was even worse. Now I have to travel a long way to get to the Job my Agency has for me and this helps big time with my expenses. I’m happy with the wage, but I feel there must be more that can be claimed for that nobody knows about, or very few.

I think they are called ‘Umbrella Companies’, these Payment companies. The last ‘one’ I used was called Ducas/Maxipay.

this is what i am,i’m self employed as LTD company.i claim 40p per mile for going to work & back & £5 per day for meal allowance.i pay it to myself in my expenses at then end of month
i set myself up as a ltd company as the umbrella companies were taking the ■■■■ with the fees they charged.
i invoice agency every week & am paid week after no problems.been doing it since june last year.i work for a couple of agencies but also have a couple of firms i work direct for so get a few quid more from them

This is what some of my friends are doing.
Can you not claim £5 per night for unsociable hours or something like that?

23

no,cos if your working nights your getting paid a night rate anyway or you should be!!
you can still claim a tax free meal allowance of up to £10 with a receipt or £5 without,i just book a £5 for every shift i work,this way i can reduce my weekly wage & pay less tax & ins & also less employers n.i. on my gross wages.this month so far i’ve done £250 in expenses & that’s all tax free at the end of the month.i just pay myself a £300 a week wage then my expenses,if need more money i just declare a dividend & pay it myself tax free :smiley:

24

jrl driver:
no,cos if your working nights your getting paid a night rate anyway or you should be!!
you can still claim a tax free meal allowance of up to £10 with a receipt or £5 without,i just book a £5 for every shift i work,this way i can reduce my weekly wage & pay less tax & ins & also less employers n.i. on my gross wages.this month so far i’ve done £250 in expenses & that’s all tax free at the end of the month.i just pay myself a £300 a week wage then my expenses,if need more money i just declare a dividend & pay it myself tax free :smiley:

Crap, that explains it :angry: :angry: Thanks. ‘They’ said a fiver U/S hours and a fiver for meals, but I’ve only been getting a fiver after checking loads of expense and pay slips.

25

I was talking to a bloke from an umbrella company recently and he told me you could claim more meal allowance if you start before 06:00, can’t remember how much more though.

26

tachograph:
I was talking to a bloke from an umbrella company recently and he told me you could claim more meal allowance if you start before 06:00, can’t remember how much more though.

yeah,i’ve seen different rates banded about,£5 for a breakfast when your away from work for up to 8 hours,then after 8 hours you can get £10 but then you claim for an evening meal as your away from home or normal place of work you can claim up to £15 i think,but there’s all sorts of times & other stuf that hmrc put in,i just claim £5 a shift,it’s easier,your not going to get hassle of the tax man for it & it’s easy to do & keep a check on.if i have to get something from services or truck stop that costs more than £5 then i keep receipt & claim that amount for that day :smiley:

i got a uniform,hi viz jackets,work boots,stationary etc all put through business when i started up,cost me nothing in effect.
when my books go to accountant then he can do the rest about saving me money as i run business from home so get a bit knocked off gas & leccy etc :wink:

27

I was told that you don’t have to keep recites for actual meals but recites for shopping will do, so if you go to the supermarket and do a weeks shop you can use the recite to claim meal allowances for the week.

Have to say though that the person who told me that didn’t come across as very convincing even though she was supposed to be an expert on the subject :unamused:

28

Conor:

pierrot 14:

dinosteveus1:
What expenses can you claim if you are an Agency Driver on nights?
At present I claim Petrol money, Unsociable money (£5 P/N) and if I need to buy anything work related I put that down.
Anything else I’m missing? :unamused:

Didn’t think you could,?

Well you can definitely claim mileage under HMRC rules whether on agency as self employed or PAYE as you don’t have a fixed place of work. Been trying to tell some of you lot that fact for years when you’re all banging on about only being able to do it through NOVA etc or as self employed.

how much can you claim? i work for an agency but only work at one company is that the same as a agency driver who works at diffent firms

29

mac12:
how much can you claim? i work for an agency but only work at one company is that the same as a agency driver who works at diffent firms

Not sure ‘how much you can claim’ but I travel around 140 miles to work :wink: , I put down 38p per mile, Fiver meal money per night shift and a fiver a week for washing my work clothes.
I work mostly for one Company, sometimes two but not very often.
My last ‘expenses’ was just over £200. Not sure how this works :blush: but it does. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

30

fill in section 2 for travelling expenses on business mileage if
you used your own car, van, motorcycle or cycle for work (but
include expenses of using a company vehicle in section 4).
Business mileage is the number of miles you have travelled
while actually doing your work or spent travelling to a
temporary workplace. You cannot get tax relief for travel
between home and a permanent workplace as business
miles, unless you have a special agreement with us.

just got this of tax wesite form p87,reading though it agency drivers are not going to a permanent workplace so should be able to claim 40p per mile

31

mac12:
just got this of tax wesite form p87,reading though it agency drivers are not going to a permanent workplace so should be able to claim 40p per mile

Think it’s 38p per mile without receipt and 40p with. :unamused:

32

Can I put a new twist to the discussion ? The agency I work for pay us travel expenses, the amount relates to how far the client is from where we live. £6 for local ones and £15 for those outside the area. Now this payment goes down on our pay slips as “travel” and doesn’t get taxed. The agency says that its a way to get us tax-free money.
2 questions, is the agency scamming me? Can I still claim mileage from HMRC?

33

pierrot 14:
Can I put a new twist to the discussion ? The agency I work for pay us travel expenses, the amount relates to how far the client is from where we live. £6 for local ones and £15 for those outside the area. Now this payment goes down on our pay slips as “travel” and doesn’t get taxed. The agency says that its a way to get us tax-free money.
2 questions, is the agency scamming me? Can I still claim mileage from HMRC?

How can you claim from HMRC when you live in France?
If you live in the UK, would 40p per mile cover how far you travel to get to work?

34

pierrot 14:
Can I put a new twist to the discussion ? The agency I work for pay us travel expenses, the amount relates to how far the client is from where we live. £6 for local ones and £15 for those outside the area. Now this payment goes down on our pay slips as “travel” and doesn’t get taxed. The agency says that its a way to get us tax-free money.
2 questions, is the agency scamming me? Can I still claim mileage from HMRC?

P87 states you can claim a maximum of 40ppm (pence per mile) for the 1st 10k miles. LESS any travelling expenses paid to you by the agency. So if they are paying you 38ppm you are only entitled to claim the balance of 2ppm.
Despite the bad taste they leave in my mouth every time I mention them, NOVA do have a comprehensive list (pdf) on their website of what you can claim for, you may have to filter out the dross that relates to NOVA, but you should be able to pick out the relivant points

WHICH EXPENSES MAY BE ALLOWABLE?
TAX-DEDUCTIBLE EXPENSES GUIDELINES FROM NOVA
CONTRACTING LTD
Reducing your tax liability
As an employee under an umbrella arrangement working on numerous
temporary assignments, you are entitled to reduce your Tax Liability by
claiming back expenses that you have to pay in connection with your
work. HM Revenue & Customs states that expenses claimed must be
incurred wholly, exclusively and necessarily in the performance of your
duties as an employee of Nova Contracting Ltd. Tax laws are very strict in
defining which expenses may be claimed. The total of your expenses will
be shown on your form P11D. We send this to the Revenue at the end of
each tax year. If the Revenue chose to review your individual case and
ruled that some of the expenses you have been paid should be treated as
taxable, you would have extra tax to pay.
The following guidelines are to help you identify the various expenses you
can claim in relation to carrying out your duties for each temporary
assignment.
Remember that if HMRC were to check your claim, you would need to be
able to justify the business nature of the expenses you have claimed.
WHAT CAN YOU CLAIM FOR?
1) Travel
Travelling expenses associated with work including travel by car, ferry,
bus, tube, and train. Receipts are required for all expenses incurred,
including VAT receipts for petrol/diesel even when you are claiming
mileage allowance. The start point and destination and reason for the
journey, dates of travel and car details must be completed on each form.
These details help justify the business reason for the journey if the
Revenue challenge you on it. The start and end of the journey should be
specific enough for the Revenue to check the mileage using eg Multimap.
Postcodes are ideal.
IMPORTANT
single assignment the Revenue would probably not regard your worksite
as temporary, and therefore no travel expenses would be allowable.
You would be in the same position as people who have permanent jobs
and who have to pay for their own home to work travel.
For the first 10,000 business miles travelled, the allowance will be
paid at 40p and the remaining business mileage will be paid at 25p
per mile. Parking costs will also be covered if supported by an
original receipt.
*** AS PROOF OF OWNERSHIP OF YOUR VEHICLE, IF YOU HAVE
NOT ALREADY SUPPLIED IT, WE REQUIRE BY RETURN, A COPY OF
YOUR VEHICLE REGISTRATION DOCUMENT (V5) FOR ANY CLAIM,
(THIS ENABLES US TO VALIDATE OWNERSHIP TO THE INLAND
REVENUE IF APPROACHED). ***
NB. NO MILEAGE CLAIMS CAN BE PROCESSED WITHOUT THIS
If you travel with other Nova contractors in your vehicle, you can claim for
an additional 5p per mile for each additional person. However, it must be
a Nova contractor and the details of their name and Nova reference
number MUST be entered onto the claim form under the section titled
“Travel Details”.
2) Meal allowance
If you work more than 5 miles away from your permanent address or
temporary workplace, you are entitled to claim for meals taken during the
course of your working day on the following basis
· If you are away for less than 10 hours, you can claim only for lunch
at a rate of £5.
· If you are away for more than 10 hours, then you can claim for
lunch and either breakfast at £5, or an evening meal for £5 as
appropriate
· If you are staying away over night, you can claim for all three
meals at the £5 per meal.
NB: If you spend more than £5 and have a receipt, then you may claim
the full amount spent. Please note that the Revenue carry out ‘employer
compliance reviews’ in which they check such evidence.
Please note that if your accommodation receipt covers a meal too (for
example bed and breakfast), then you cannot claim a further £5 for that
meal.
3) Daily Allowance
You can claim a 24 hours allowance for incidental expenses when you
have to stay away from your permanent address. This is paid at £5.00 per
night away for stays in the UK and £10.00 per night for stays abroad and
in Ireland. If you are staying with relatives or friends, you can still claim
this 24 hours allowance.
V1 29/6/09
4) Accommodation
If you are staying away from your permanent address, a receipt (ideally
on headed paper) must clearly show the proprietor’s name, address and
telephone number. They should preferably be VAT Registered and provide
a VAT receipt. If your stay in the accommodation is for three months or
more, we may need to ask you for proof of your permanent home address
to show that this one is only temporary. You can claim a daily allowance
when staying in accommodation (See 3 above). If you are staying with
relatives or friends, you can claim accommodation expenses, as long as
you are able to provide a valid receipt. As a form of receipt, you will need
to provide the name, address and telephone number of the person you
have stayed with, along with the amount paid.
5) Tools and Clothing
Tools may be claimed for, but must be of an industrial nature and solely
for use during your work. A VAT Invoice/Receipt must be supplied,
showing items purchased and the shop or supplier. Clothing covers safety
or specialised items such as fluorescent jackets, protective overalls and
steel toe-cap boots.
You can claim for cleaning and laundering of protective clothing. This will
be paid at the rate of £2.20 per overall. A maximum of 2 items per day for
each day worked is claimable.
6) Telephone
You can only claim for business calls. Highlight them on your itemised bill
and submit the original bill with the expense claim form. Rental of a
landline and purchase of a mobile phone are not covered, nor are “pay as
you go” vouchers.
7) Professional Fees/Course Fees
You can claim for courses, books or medical tests relating to your
occupation, as well as membership of professional bodies. You must
submit supporting documents or invoices with each claim.

35

dinosteveus1:

pierrot 14:
Can I put a new twist to the discussion ? The agency I work for pay us travel expenses, the amount relates to how far the client is from where we live. £6 for local ones and £15 for those outside the area. Now this payment goes down on our pay slips as “travel” and doesn’t get taxed. The agency says that its a way to get us tax-free money.
2 questions, is the agency scamming me? Can I still claim mileage from HMRC?

How can you claim from HMRC when you live in France?
If you live in the UK, would 40p per mile cover how far you travel to get to work?

My house is in France but I work 2 weeks in every month in the UK, staying at my sisters or nephews, I would only be claiming from there, not here in Normandy, Don’t think HMRC will pay my ferry cost.
I pay UK tax and NI so would presume I am entitled.

36

Can someone put this lot in layman’s terms for thickos like me please?

From what’s been said in this topic;

Because I’m an agency driver, I have no fixed place of employment and am therefore eligable for 38-40 pence per mile (can’t fathom if I need recipts or not), a fiver per meal (under certain curcumstances) and expenses relating to my work - I presume that’s workwear, gloves, any p.p.e, pens, paper, diaries, possibly even a replacement digi-card if I need one.

Not too sure about work related courses, is that for self employed/plc etc or can I still get that as an agency driver on paye?

If it can be back-dated, could I use my timesheets (which detail who I worked for and when) and say “that’s the last six month’s worth for brakes at grantham which is 30miles from home - pay up!” or do you get a kind “bugger orff” without a reciept?

How do I apply for these expenses, including where to get the forms?

37

darkseeker:
Because I’m an agency driver, I have no fixed place of employment and am therefore eligable for 38-40 pence per mile (can’t fathom if I need recipts or not), a fiver per meal (under certain curcumstances) and expenses relating to my work - I presume that’s workwear, gloves, any p.p.e, pens, paper, diaries, possibly even a replacement digi-card if I need one.

you can claim a maximum of 40ppm for the 1st 10k miles, less any travel monies your paid by the agency. you cant as a PAYE agency driver claim for pens, paper, diaries etc. As for claiming the cost of digi card & medicals, I suspect you cant claim those

darkseeker:
Not too sure about work related courses, is that for self employed/plc etc or can I still get that as an agency driver on paye?

As PAYE you can`t claim for those, and you have to stand the cost.
With the P87 you get to claim roughly 2/3rds of “expenses” what a S/E or Ltd Co driver can

darkseeker:
If it can be back-dated, could I use my timesheets (which detail who I worked for and when) and say “that’s the last six month’s worth for brakes at grantham which is 30miles from home - pay up!” or do you get a kind “bugger orff” without a reciept??

you could probably use the timesheets, but if you have time, set up a simple mileage spreadsheet and put the info on there. you can then print of the spreadsheet and send that to HMRC
If your unable to format a simple spreadsheet PM me a email addy and Ill send you 1. It can be a PITA to keep updating, but youll eventually get the hang of it

darkseeker:
How do I apply for these expenses, including where to get the forms?

Google “Tax form P87” or click the link HERE
its probably the 1st thing that comes up, download the pdf file, print it off.
Read the guidance notes, it selfexplanetry(sp?).
Fill it in and send it off to the taxman. you can only claim 2010-2011 after the end of the current tax year. however other years can be claimed at any point, so long as your able to provide supporting evidence
Fill 1 form in per agency that youve worked for, and youll need the employers tax office reference number thats on the top of P45, or P60 (end of year tax form) that your agency eventually sends you

38

just been talking to tax office,spoke to 2 people one said yes one no,so they are going to ring back.It seems if you are not self employed and go to diffent companys you can claim mileage at 40p,if you stay at 1 company like me you are classed as permanent which is why they don’t no what to say,if im permanent i should no when im working but i don’t and only done 10 days this year,so will tell you when they tell me.

39

mac12
If you travel from home to work site “A” owned by employer “A”
But are actually employed & paid by (an agency) employer “B” (whos office is in the next town) to work on employer "A"s site as an agency driver doing work for employer “A” then you can claim travel money via P87.
However if your on the payroll of employer “A” and only work for them, and your not paid by (an agency) employer “B” then you can`t claim

40

tax office has just called me and said i cannot claim mileage while working for agency,think i may send form p87 in anyway and see what happens