Ever been stopped by VOSA with passengers?

repton · 14 February 2013 19:22

limeyphil:

SYE-1:
This is not true , most company’s don’t allow passengers as there insurance only covers employees …

They say that, But have you checked the policy?

Their vehicle insurance will cover passengers, I’m almost certain it has to by law. I’m pretty sure most of the companies who say “you can’t carry passengers because we’re not insured” are either telling lies or are referring to their Goods In Transit insurance which may be invalidated if they allow passengers who are not employees.

Paul

daf95xf · 14 February 2013 19:29

robinhood_1984:
Incedentally…what is the position of carrying passengers while carrying an ADR load? I belive it used to be that at least one of the vehicle occupants had to be fully certified in the correct categories of ADR. More recently, before moving to Canada in 09 it seemed that ‘all’ occupants of the vehicle had to be ADR qualified. Is that the case? I dont recall if I read about it or just heared about it, but I’d like to know what the actual situation is.

I belive that the passenger has to have a basic awareness of whats being carried…

harry_monk · 14 February 2013 21:36

repton:
Their vehicle insurance will cover passengers, I’m almost certain it has to by law.

It does, all third parties have to be covered by insurance under the Road Traffic Act, there is only one person who is not insured against personal injury etc, and that is the insurer himself.

leedschris · 14 February 2013 22:17

Waco:

Sam Millar:
I pretty much thought that was the case with VOSA although company policy usually dictates no passengers allowed… usual excuse is insurance but thought they would have to remove passenger seat for it to not be covered?

Anyway reason for the thread was I was told “watch you’re not stopped by VOSA, even if gaffer says so” by a fellow worker who seemed a little jealous the misses was with me.

I know of one company that does remove seats lol A certain paint manufacturer of Batley

No, that will be the employees robbing the seats.I know many of them at the paint factory in Birstall.

the_maoster · 15 February 2013 09:00

robinhood_1984:
Incedentally…what is the position of carrying passengers while carrying an ADR load? I belive it used to be that at least one of the vehicle occupants had to be fully certified in the correct categories of ADR. More recently, before moving to Canada in 09 it seemed that ‘all’ occupants of the vehicle had to be ADR qualified. Is that the case? I dont recall if I read about it or just heared about it, but I’d like to know what the actual situation is.

You believe correctly Robinhood, in order to travel (legally) as a passenger in a vehicle under the scope of ADR regs you do in fact have to be certified for any classes carried. Merely having training or knowledge of the products being carried will not cut it I’m afraid.

With a view to passengers in “normal” vehicles, as long as the vehicle is insured then so are they, full stop. You’d never get a private car insurance policy that didn’t cover passengers, so why should commercial insurance differ? Imo companies only say no passengers because they don’t really give a ■■■■ about drivers or their private lives, and only care about the goods getting delivered.

I reckon this no passenger malarky is one of the main reasons we are getting less and less young blood into the job, nobody seems to go out with their Dads anymore, hence have little interest in the job.

fatboy_slimslow · 15 February 2013 09:14

SYE-1:

robinhood_1984:

Dafman:
This is not true , most company’s don’t allow passengers as there insurance only covers employees …

BS, you watch too much television! MMTM! Rdc waiting room bs!

jessicas_dad · 15 February 2013 11:20

Saaamon:

jessicas dad:
Nothing but I would ask anyone with me to bring their license as well.

Why?

It was something I read on here about the police abroad will question about double manning.

If they have a hgv why isnt there card in the slot even if its your mate away for a jolly.

the_maoster · 15 February 2013 11:29

jessicas dad:

Saaamon:

jessicas dad:
Nothing but I would ask anyone with me to bring their license as well.

Why?

It was something I read on here about the police abroad will question about double manning.

If they have a hgv why isnt there card in the slot even if its your mate away for a jolly.

I kind of see your point JD, but I’d imagine that most cases of taking a passenger would involve one of your kids or wife/gf out for a jolly. In which case why would they need to take their licence (if indeed they held one)?

When I’m driving my car I certainly don’t insist on my gf carrying her licence just in case plod pull us over.

Of course if it was genuinely a double manning job then naturally (when abroad) it’d be sensible for the passenger to carry their licence.

jessicas_dad · 15 February 2013 17:49

you see my way off thinking was taking one of my mates for a jolly, taking the wife no thanks.

toby1234abc · 15 February 2013 17:53

JD i have heard that too, that the two drivers must have a truck licence and the last 28 days of tacho records when stopped abroad.

wheel_nut · 15 February 2013 19:19

SYE-1:

robinhood_1984:

Dafman:
Just make sure you are insured for passengers.

I was under the impression that you are always insured for passengers, which is the problem. Anyone in that vehicle is covered by the insurance and can then claim against it/the company in the event of an accident, which is why the company may not want passengers in their trucks, not because they arent insured, but because they are.

This is not true , most company’s don’t allow passengers as there insurance only covers employees …

No vehicle is allowed to travel on the road without a minimum of 3rd party insurance, a passenger would be a third party along with a low bridge, a gate post or another driver in a car.

wheel_nut · 15 February 2013 19:24

jessicas dad:

Saaamon:

jessicas dad:
Nothing but I would ask anyone with me to bring their license as well.

Why?

It was something I read on here about the police abroad will question about double manning.

If they have a hgv why isnt there card in the slot even if its your mate away for a jolly.

There was a bloke in Spain got fined â‚¬7001 or something for not having a card in slot 2. It wouldn’t happen here unless he was also an employee.

wheel_nut · 15 February 2013 19:38

the maoster:

robinhood_1984:
Incedentally…what is the position of carrying passengers while carrying an ADR load? I belive it used to be that at least one of the vehicle occupants had to be fully certified in the correct categories of ADR. More recently, before moving to Canada in 09 it seemed that ‘all’ occupants of the vehicle had to be ADR qualified. Is that the case? I dont recall if I read about it or just heared about it, but I’d like to know what the actual situation is.

You believe correctly Robinhood, in order to travel (legally) as a passenger in a vehicle under the scope of ADR regs you do in fact have to be certified for any classes carried. Merely having training or knowledge of the products being carried will not cut it I’m afraid.

With a view to passengers in “normal” vehicles, as long as the vehicle is insured then so are they, full stop. You’d never get a private car insurance policy that didn’t cover passengers, so why should commercial insurance differ? Imo companies only say no passengers because they don’t really give a ■■■■ about drivers or their private lives, and only care about the goods getting delivered.

I reckon this no passenger malarky is one of the main reasons we are getting less and less young blood into the job, nobody seems to go out with their Dads anymore, hence have little interest in the job.

ADR 8.3.1 categorically states “No Passengers”

However ADR 8.2. allows employees of the transport operator or consignor provided they have had some training in their role, also a shipping agent could be carried.

toby1234abc · 16 February 2013 11:47

Wheelnut i can believe that, sounds about right, maybe in the Basque area for the 7001 euro fine, not sure why they add the one euro, they got me for 2301 euros.
I collected a machine from Algecericas, it moved about on the flat bed trailer, so i had to pay for a crane to come out in the Burgos area.
Went through the tolls before you get to the border, got me there, had to wait a week for a permit to transit Basque from Vitoria, as the load had moved again, making it a wide load.
Shame the weather was grey and cloudy as the bus to San Sebastion was handy for the beach there.

dieseldave · 16 February 2013 23:51

the maoster:

robinhood_1984:
Incedentally…what is the position of carrying passengers while carrying an ADR load? I belive it used to be that at least one of the vehicle occupants had to be fully certified in the correct categories of ADR. More recently, before moving to Canada in 09 it seemed that ‘all’ occupants of the vehicle had to be ADR qualified. Is that the case? I dont recall if I read about it or just heared about it, but I’d like to know what the actual situation is.

You believe correctly Robinhood, in order to travel (legally) as a passenger in a vehicle under the scope of ADR regs you do in fact have to be certified for any classes carried. Merely having training or knowledge of the products being carried will not cut it I’m afraid.

Sorry chaps, but this is a very common rumour and so I’m afraid to say that it’s completely incorrect.

If a person isn’t going to drive an “in-scope” load, then they don’t need an ADR certificate.
If a person is to be a passenger on board a vehicle that is carrying an “in-scope” load, then they will need exactly what you’ve called “training or knowledge of the products” carried.

ADR has this to say on the subject of passengers:

8.3.1 Passengers
Apart from members of the vehicle crew, no passengers may be carried in transport units carrying dangerous goods.

The vehicle is owned by the “carrier,” (the boss) and he gets to say who is or isn’t a member of the vehicle crew.

It’s the driver who needs an ADR certificate in order to drive an “in-scope” load:

8.2.1 Drivers of vehicles carrying dangerous goods shall hold a certificate issued by the competent authority stating that they have participated in a training course and passed an examination
on the particular requirements that have to be met during carriage of dangerous goods.

The above quote means a ‘proper’ ADR certificate.

However, if a passenger is carried as a member of the vehicle crew, that person will need:

8.2.3 Training of persons other than the drivers holding a certificate in accordance with 8.2.1, involved in the carriage of dangerous goods by road
Persons whose duties concern the carriage of dangerous goods by road shall have received training in the requirements governing the carriage of such goods appropriate to their responsibilities and duties… etc etc.

The training must be documented:

1.3.3 Documentation
Records of training received according to this Chapter shall be kept by the employer and made available to the employee or competent authority, upon request.

As for how long this has been the case, the above has been the position for more than 10 years.

The person who invented this rumour won’t be able to find any quotes from ADR to back it up.