I’ve enjoyed all the posts on the rights and wrongs of British and German car manufacturers, in particular the historical content mentioning the Ford Zodiac MK3 and Triumph 2000 as I own an example of each. My Triumph is an early MK2 but there is no difference mechanically to the MK1 that first came out in 1963 and was far superior to anything made in Germany at the time in my humble opinion, the independent rear suspension was and still is brilliant and very advanced for the time.
I’ve owned a fair few German cars in my time and still do, but I don’t think they are anything special and they have issues like any other vehicle, but German manufacturers have always marketed their products well and have built up an image which buyers seem to go for.
bigstraight6:
I’ve owned a fair few German cars in my time and still do, but I don’t think they are anything special and they have issues like any other vehicle, but German manufacturers have always marketed their products well and have built up an image which buyers seem to go for.
To be fair there was also plenty of government instigated political Brit bad German good propaganda which was obviously intended to inflame the widespread ignorant public view in that regard.With making us a subservient EU vassal state being the obvious end game.At the time of the the 1960’s the Germans were way behind us with products like the Jaguar S TYPE and Triumph and Rover 2000 and Ford Zodiac and Vauxhall Cresta and Cortina in the lower sector all at a price which the Germans couldn’t get close to for the equivalent spec.Arguably BMC also being deliberately taken out by having fwd junk forced on them as part of the same agenda as that which eventually saw the Triumph 2000/2.5 saloon range axed instead of just dropping the Rover V8 in it.Leaving just the Jaguar XJ to carry on the fight which no surprise then became a victim of the same pro German anti Brit propaganda exercise.Then we get Tories pretending to support Brexit and Brit nationalism while at the same time spouting the same old Brit bashing pro German rhetoric which they’ve been brainwashed with since Heath took us into it.
CF’s answer
Let’s say 20 minutes extra work per day x 5 days = 100 minutes per week x 47 weeks = 78 hours extra work per year.In return for 5 extra days = 42.5 hours off ?.Great deal …for the boss. 
I think this answer is why we lost our manufacturing industry. Harvey
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A something for nothing culture among the employers and Brit workers,generally,not being prepared to be shafted.Combined with a geopolitical agenda which was always about keeping Germany top dog in Europe.Absolutely.
Which probably shows why the Cons are so keen on the EU while ‘Labour’ is obviously happy to sacrifice the Brit working class to create its bigger agenda of an EUSSR.
On that note you seem to have selectively missed the bit about a supposed ‘militant’ Brit union selling out our morning and afternoon breaks.Obviously already making a better product for less wages and investment than our German competitors not being enough.
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You think a bit deeper than i do CF, not sure thats healthy.
The work force aproached the company with “what can we do” to get another “paid” weeks holiday each year, If you aproach a second hand car dealer looking for a car, is your main concern how much he is going to make, or whats the best for you.
Sorry, but its that attitude that has crippled our country and made us unprofitable.
In the huge factory i mentioned there are “rest areas” for the workforce to eat and rest etc, with flowers, piped music and even huge trees in pots to make it a nice area, food is brought to these “rest stationes” at given times.
Unions are good thing but way out of controle and slowley instilled into working men the attitude you unfortunatley show in your thread. Harvey
HRS:
CF’s answer
Let’s say 20 minutes extra work per day x 5 days = 100 minutes per week x 47 weeks = 78 hours extra work per year.In return for 5 extra days = 42.5 hours off ?.Great deal …for the boss.
I think this answer is why we lost our manufacturing industry. Harvey
A something for nothing culture among the employers and Brit workers,generally,not being prepared to be shafted.Combined with a geopolitical agenda which was always about keeping Germany top dog in Europe.Absolutely.
Which probably shows why the Cons are so keen on the EU while ‘Labour’ is obviously happy to sacrifice the Brit working class to create its bigger agenda of an EUSSR.
On that note you seem to have selectively missed the bit about a supposed ‘militant’ Brit union selling out our morning and afternoon breaks.Obviously already making a better product for less wages and investment than our German competitors not being enough.
[/quote]
You think a bit deeper than i do CF, not sure thats healthy.
The work force aproached the company with “what can we do” to get another “paid” weeks holiday each year, If you aproach a second hand car dealer looking for a car, is your main concern how much he is going to make, or whats the best for you.
Sorry, but its that attitude that has crippled our country and made us unprofitable.
In the huge factory i mentioned there are “rest areas” for the workforce to eat and rest etc, with flowers, piped music and even huge trees in pots to make it a nice area, food is brought to these “rest stationes” at given times.
Unions are good thing but way out of controle and slowley instilled into working men the attitude you unfortunatley show in your thread. Harvey
[/quote]
If I see a sticker price on the car for 2 grand I don’t then offer the dealer 3 grand to help his profit margin however he dresses up the extra price.In this case if the workers have to put in more unpaid hours per year than the 1 week paid holiday pays them that ain’t another week paid holiday.Just like when workers were told that they’d have to do more work to get a pay rise.Or drive a coach and horses through demarcation lines in which different trades are supposed to be paid according to their trade.That ain’t a pay rise.What this discussion does clearly show is the typical Tory Thatcherite nation of shopkeepers thinking,in that only the shop keeper has the right to make a profit,not the workers who make the stuff which the shop keeper sells.‘That’s’ why this country is going to hell in a hand cart.
On that note I can’t go into a shop and say that I’ll give them 10% more on the price if they put 20% more in the bag.Nor can I tell a plumbing business that I want them to re wire the house for the same hourly rate and during the same time that they’ve quoted to fix the water pipes.So why do you think that’s ok in the case of ripping off employed workers.The fact is if it’s supposed to be capitalism then everyone has the right to make a profit and get paid for the specific job they are there to do both businessmen/self employed and employed workers alike.In this case ‘paid’ holidays meaning exactly that not pay the guvnor back for them and then some.If there’s one thing the remainers are right about a Tory Brexit will be no better than a Tory EU or UK.
HRS:
Now for something compleatley different. Harvey
Yes and the stupid Tory voting Brits answer to that is to throw Batten and TR under the bus and replace them with zb BoJo and Farage.
On that note it’s what she doesn’t say,regarding what they’ll do with ‘infidel’ women,that is the obviously sinister bit.
HRS:
Now for something compleatley different. Harvey
Fake News is nothing different or new mate.
That is a meme, an image, from FaceBook. It’s been around for months.
Show us a link to a Twitter account held by the lady herself, if you can?
Carryfast:
HRS:
Now for something compleatley different. HarveyYes and the stupid Tory voting Brits answer to that is to throw Batten and TR under the bus and replace them with zb BoJo and Farage.
On that note it’s what she doesn’t say,regarding what they’ll do with ‘infidel’ women,that is the obviously sinister bit.
CF, do yourself a favour, stop digging. The hole you’re in is deep enough.
Franglais:
HRS:
Now for something compleatley different. HarveyFake News is nothing different or new mate.
That is a meme, an image, from FaceBook. It’s been around for months.
Show us a link to a Twitter account held by the lady herself, if you can?
That’s the truly scary thing about the internet Franglais. Instant quotes, instant images . . . instant judgement.
No judge, no jury, no fair trial . . . just instant judgement by whoever stumbles upon said images/memes.
The internet is a wonderful thing, a truly wonderful thing. I can talk to someone in Australia or California (for free) in real time, via my keyboard. Try doing that 30 years ago when your main mode of communication was the telephone or the Royal Mail.
Unfortunately, utter emotional messes also have access to the internet (no names . . . but on that note . . ).
We live in dynamic times. Things are changing so fast. Memes are . . . well . . . memorable, they stick in the mind and are recalled when necessary to prove a point. Instant judgement, instant response, instant condemnation.
Quite sad really, but it is what it is.
Carryfast:
HRS:
Now for something compleatley different. HarveyYes and the stupid Tory voting Brits answer to that is to throw Batten and TR under the bus and replace them with zb BoJo and Farage.
On that note it’s what she doesn’t say,regarding what they’ll do with ‘infidel’ women,that is the obviously sinister bit.
…“Its what she doesnt say…that is sinister”…
“All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.
It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.”
Tell a big enough lie, and someone will believe it. “Nah, no-one could possibly make that up”. “No-one would have the brass neck to say that, if it weren`t true”.
Even when it is shown to be a lie, someone will still say “No smoke without fire”, and “They wouldnt deny it, if it wasnt true”.
Once a seed is planted, no matter how weak that seed is, those with manure for brains will find it grows well enough.
Franglais:
Once a seed is planted, no matter how weak that seed is, those with manure for brains will find it grows well enough.
Blimey Franglais, very deep indeed but I got the drift, and the last line says it all. 
Spardo:
Franglais:
Once a seed is planted, no matter how weak that seed is, those with manure for brains will find it grows well enough.Blimey Franglais, very deep indeed but I got the drift, and the last line says it all.
What I posted within “quotes” obviously isnt my own work. It seems to make sense and the technique of using big lies seemed to work very well for the original author. I see the truth of the method, but certainly do NOT agree with the lies told by him, or the use to which the method was used. Seems to be still in use recently. Putin denying there were Russian troops in the Ukraine, in spite of reports and photos. Trump saying there were bigger crowds at his inauguration, than at Obamas.
Johnson saying £350 million, then later saying it was even more.
The original author? Who described that technique that is being used today? He wasn`t the first to employ that method, but did coin the term “Big Lie” or in the original “große Lüge”. Frightening.
Franglais:
Once a seed is planted, no matter how weak that seed is, those with manure for brains will find it grows well enough.
Zb for brains in this case being those who want to go on appeasing savage Saudi and Iranian backed radical Islam and its respective Sharia run regimes.
Yet more double standards and laughable hypocrisy by those going on about the supposedly superior standards of the EU.While at the same time being apologists for a medieval backward murderous ideology that is dedicated to the destruction of the civilised world.Before you bother controlled opposition Farage and Trump are also part of that problem not the solution.
Franglais:
Putin denying there were Russian troops in the Ukraine, in spite of reports and photos.
It would have been so much better if Putin had said yes we are there to defend the local ethnic Russian East Ukraine majority and if you want a war bring it on right here and right now.You know it’s what happens when you invite a large foreign ethnic population into a country and it goes for self determination along predictable ethnic lines.As Michael Collins knew only too well.
EU means peace in Europe yeah right it’s one of the biggest lies.Along with burying FCO 30/1048 and telling us that the EU is a Confederation of Sovereign states and a trade deficit is actually a surplus and we aren’t a net contributor to the EU budget at the expense of imposing austerity at home.It’s clear enough who the real liars are here in typical Federalist style.
Carryfast:
It’s clear enough who the real liars are here
Carryfast:
EU means peace in Europe yeah right it’s one of the biggest lies
Franglais:
Carryfast:
It’s clear enough who the real liars are hereCarryfast:
EU means peace in Europe yeah right it’s one of the biggest lies
Picking a fight with Russia with propaganda saying we come in peace and to liberate East Ukraine from Russian control.German imperialism repeating itself along Ribbentrop lines now helped by the French poodle switching sides.
Carryfast:
EU means peace in Europe yeah right it’s one of the biggest lies
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Well it has since 1945…
kmills:
Carryfast:
EU means peace in Europe yeah right it’s one of the biggest lies
Well it has since 1945…
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I think some members reckon that’s about fifteen years of peace then…
Franglais:
kmills:
Carryfast:
EU means peace in Europe yeah right it’s one of the biggest liesWell it has since 1945…
I think some members reckon that’s about fifteen years of peace then…
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You’ve obviously selectively missed the point that it isn’t EU Federalism that has kept the peace in Europe.By implication you’re actually saying that German Federalism will kick off again unless we submit to its rule as part of a 4th Reich and the Yugoslav war of Federal aggression never happened.
As for Ukraine.Feel free to ‘liberate’ Crimea and Eastern Ukraine from ethnic Russian influence any time as that’s obviously your EU end game when it isn’t doing what the JNA and the German Wehrmacht tried and failed to do in Europe previously.Peace bs.