Oh the conspiracy theories
And the less evidence there is, that’s because of the strong call to silence by those involved, hence the easier to believe it.
Less proof equals more proof!
Any handle to make it yours but it is and allways will be = “THEORIES”
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
Carryfast:
fodenway:
…and the Government still won’t allow a public inquiry into Orgreave and the injustices committed then and afterwards. On a related note, a former workmate of mine had been a miner at Frickley Colliery at the time, and was on flying picket at Ollerton pit when a familiar voice told him to get out and go home before things turned nasty. It was his brother, in Police uniform (no insignia or numbers) - but his brother was at the time a serving soldier. They have never spoken to each other since.It’s either naivety in the extreme ( or biased turning a blind eye ) to think that Thatcher wasn’t using the army dressed in coppers’ uniforms to break the 1984 miners’ strike.
Just as my Grandfather had told my Father how the 1926 General Strike,which he was part of,was ended.‘Middle class volunteers’ yeah right.Scabs supported by military intimidation they mean.
Oh the conspiracy theories [emoji38] [emoji38]
And the less evidence there is, that’s because of the strong call to silence by those involved, hence the easier to believe it.
Less proof equals more proof!The military were involved to some extent, they were put on stand by to guard power stations, ■■■■■■ hauliers and if needed then drive the trucks.
The only infiltration was undercover coppers in NUM meetings, and in the close knit meetings that planned the flying pickets, how else could Selby have been so organised by the police, already aware of drop off points and exit routes, they created bottle necks by using horses, that wasn’t by chance it was planned.
There were several miners who had been given a kicking having been suspected of passing info.
Grumpy Dad,
You never did explain about how Polish union miners, and a Polish communist Government, would have workers ready to fly in and break the strike, in support of Thatcher, did you?
Polish miners were already working in the U.K. and had been for several years, the pit my dad worked at was already approaching a 50/50 workforce at the time of the strike.
I’m sure Carryfast will be along shortly to contradict everything and replace it with the federalist socialism crap, he is the fount of knowledge.
Grumpy Dad:
Polish miners were already working in the U.K. and had been for several years, the pit my dad worked at was already approaching a 50/50 workforce at the time of the strike.I’m sure Carryfast will be along shortly to contradict everything and replace it with the federalist socialism crap, he is the fount of knowledge.
I’ve no idea what the national heritage was of your Dad’s colleagues.
I know that has little to do with why the then Polish Gov would support Thatcher against Scargill?
Grumpy Dad:
Carryfast:
It’s either naivety in the extreme ( or biased turning a blind eye ) to think that Thatcher wasn’t using the army dressed in coppers’ uniforms to break the 1984 miners’ strike.The military were involved to some extent, they were put on stand by to guard power stations, ■■■■■■ hauliers and if needed then drive the trucks.
The only infiltration was undercover coppers in NUM meetings
Using military dressed as coppers,to use force,to defeat pickets,isn’t really the same thing as infiltration to gather intelligence.So why the difference between using the army to break potential picketing of ‘power stations’ as opposed to steel coking plants ?.You know like Orgreave.While it’s obvious that dressing up the army as coppers would be/was less politically controversial and damaging to both government and forces,than having soldiers in military uniform attacking civilians by the standards of the mid 1980’s.
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
I’m sure Carryfast will be along shortly to contradict everything and replace it with the federalist socialism crap, he is the fount of knowledge.I’ve no idea what the national heritage was of your Dad’s colleagues.
I know that has little to do with why the then Polish Gov would support Thatcher against Scargill?
Thatcher having received support from both the Soviet and Polish Communist regimes to break the 1984 miners’ strike,sometimes opposed by their own work forces in blacking export movements of coal in that regard,is a fact.
The relevant bit being that all this happened on the EU’s watch with Thatcher being a committed Europhile and it was all so very different in 1972. 
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
Polish miners were already working in the U.K. and had been for several years, the pit my dad worked at was already approaching a 50/50 workforce at the time of the strike.I’m sure Carryfast will be along shortly to contradict everything and replace it with the federalist socialism crap, he is the fount of knowledge.
I’ve no idea what the national heritage was of your Dad’s colleagues.
I know that has little to do with why the then Polish Gov would support Thatcher against Scargill?
I don’t exactly know the politics behind why they were there, wether it was through post war resettlement, relaxed immigration, but they were there, working in mines across Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Yorkshire and the North East.
In the 70’s while Labour closed mines it actually created an employment void in the industry, Labour pushed for extra housing in the mining villages and towns as a form of regeneration of areas which offered employment in the industry, although nepotism was rife throughout, closures proved family loyalty was a much stronger bond, and younger miners who worked beside older less employable family members turned down relocation offers. My dad ( not a miner at the time ) along with many others took up these employment opportunities and moved families for the work.
Scargill didn’t see foreign labour as a gain to the industry, it was taking jobs away from British workers, it was seen as another nail in the coffin, along with the pay and ironically conditions something he raised concerns about after the Lofthouse disaster.
Scargill wasn’t flavour of the month with the Labour Party either, Kinnock saw him as a problem and disliked his approach the increased militancy was not what Labour wanted, but the NUM had gone off on a tangent to Labour.
Due to several years of mediocre action by the miners under Labour, the threats of walk outs and an increased level of militancy Thatcher was advised to prepare for possible strike action by stockpiling at the power stations, this stockpiling would see any strike action out, although the majority of coal produced in the U.K. was for industrial and domestic, the remainder was exported and we imported from across Europe and from Poland. ( Why import and export, because coal is a fossil fuel and has different types, each type has different burning properties. )
The post war agreement with Poland was repayment for the aircraft , weapons, ammunition, vehicles and equipment as well as food and clothing, we supplied to them during WW2, the RAF had 16 Polish squadrons with pilots flying various aircraft Hurricanes and Spitfires during the Battle of Britain as well as Lancaster, Wellington and Halifax bombers some of the missions included D-Day ( a visit to the Polish war cemetery outside Cean is quite interesting ) this agreement was to be repaid back in coal, a commodity we post war needed for obvious restructuring of industries, without coal we couldn’t heat the steelworks etc, the Tories increased the agreed quota, imports from Europe was also increased, a deal with France for example was struck by an agreement to supply them with electricity through a cross channel cable.
Carryfast:
Grumpy Dad:
Carryfast:
It’s either naivety in the extreme ( or biased turning a blind eye ) to think that Thatcher wasn’t using the army dressed in coppers’ uniforms to break the 1984 miners’ strike.The military were involved to some extent, they were put on stand by to guard power stations, ■■■■■■ hauliers and if needed then drive the trucks.
The only infiltration was undercover coppers in NUM meetings
Using military dressed as coppers,to use force,to defeat pickets,isn’t really the same thing as infiltration to gather intelligence.So why the difference between using the army to break potential picketing of ‘power stations’ as opposed to steel coking plants ?.You know like Orgreave.While it’s obvious that dressing up the army as coppers would be/was less politically controversial and damaging to both government and forces,than having soldiers in military uniform attacking civilians by the standards of the mid 1980’s.
I remember miners dropping concrete off bridges onto lorries that had crossed the picket lines
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
Polish miners were already working in the U.K. and had been for several years, the pit my dad worked at was already approaching a 50/50 workforce at the time of the strike.I’m sure Carryfast will be along shortly to contradict everything and replace it with the federalist socialism crap, he is the fount of knowledge.
I’ve no idea what the national heritage was of your Dad’s colleagues.
I know that has little to do with why the then Polish Gov would support Thatcher against Scargill?I don’t exactly know the politics behind why they were there, wether it was through post war resettlement, relaxed immigration, but they were there, working in mines across Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Yorkshire and the North East.
In the 70’s while Labour closed mines it actually created an employment void in the industry, Labour pushed for extra housing in the mining villages and towns as a form of regeneration of areas which offered employment in the industry, although nepotism was rife throughout, closures proved family loyalty was a much stronger bond, and younger miners who worked beside older less employable family members turned down relocation offers. My dad ( not a miner at the time ) along with many others took up these employment opportunities and moved families for the work.
Scargill didn’t see foreign labour as a gain to the industry, it was taking jobs away from British workers, it was seen as another nail in the coffin, along with the pay and ironically conditions something he raised concerns about after the Lofthouse disaster.
Scargill wasn’t flavour of the month with the Labour Party either, Kinnock saw him as a problem and disliked his approach the increased militancy was not what Labour wanted, but the NUM had gone off on a tangent to Labour.
Due to several years of mediocre action by the miners under Labour, the threats of walk outs and an increased level of militancy Thatcher was advised to prepare for possible strike action by stockpiling at the power stations, this stockpiling would see any strike action out, although the majority of coal produced in the U.K. was for industrial and domestic, the remainder was exported and we imported from across Europe and from Poland. ( Why import and export, because coal is a fossil fuel and has different types, each type has different burning properties. )
The post war agreement with Poland was repayment for the aircraft , weapons, ammunition, vehicles and equipment as well as food and clothing, we supplied to them during WW2, the RAF had 16 Polish squadrons with pilots flying various aircraft Hurricanes and Spitfires during the Battle of Britain as well as Lancaster, Wellington and Halifax bombers some of the missions included D-Day ( a visit to the Polish war cemetery outside Cean is quite interesting ) this agreement was to be repaid back in coal, a commodity we post war needed for obvious restructuring of industries, without coal we couldn’t heat the steelworks etc, the Tories increased the agreed quota, imports from Europe was also increased, a deal with France for example was struck by an agreement to supply them with electricity through a cross channel cable.
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
Polish miners were already working in the U.K. and had been for several years, the pit my dad worked at was already approaching a 50/50 workforce at the time of the strike.I’m sure Carryfast will be along shortly to contradict everything and replace it with the federalist socialism crap, he is the fount of knowledge.
I’ve no idea what the national heritage was of your Dad’s colleagues.
I know that has little to do with why the then Polish Gov would support Thatcher against Scargill?I don’t exactly know the politics behind why they were there, wether it was through post war resettlement, relaxed immigration, but they were there, working in mines across Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Yorkshire and the North East.
In the 70’s while Labour closed mines it actually created an employment void in the industry, Labour pushed for extra housing in the mining villages and towns as a form of regeneration of areas which offered employment in the industry, although nepotism was rife throughout, closures proved family loyalty was a much stronger bond, and younger miners who worked beside older less employable family members turned down relocation offers. My dad ( not a miner at the time ) along with many others took up these employment opportunities and moved families for the work.
Scargill didn’t see foreign labour as a gain to the industry, it was taking jobs away from British workers, it was seen as another nail in the coffin, along with the pay and ironically conditions something he raised concerns about after the Lofthouse disaster.
Scargill wasn’t flavour of the month with the Labour Party either, Kinnock saw him as a problem and disliked his approach the increased militancy was not what Labour wanted, but the NUM had gone off on a tangent to Labour.
Due to several years of mediocre action by the miners under Labour, the threats of walk outs and an increased level of militancy Thatcher was advised to prepare for possible strike action by stockpiling at the power stations, this stockpiling would see any strike action out, although the majority of coal produced in the U.K. was for industrial and domestic, the remainder was exported and we imported from across Europe and from Poland. ( Why import and export, because coal is a fossil fuel and has different types, each type has different burning properties. )
The post war agreement with Poland was repayment for the aircraft , weapons, ammunition, vehicles and equipment as well as food and clothing, we supplied to them during WW2, the RAF had 16 Polish squadrons with pilots flying various aircraft Hurricanes and Spitfires during the Battle of Britain as well as Lancaster, Wellington and Halifax bombers some of the missions included D-Day ( a visit to the Polish war cemetery outside Cean is quite interesting ) this agreement was to be repaid back in coal, a commodity we post war needed for obvious restructuring of industries, without coal we couldn’t heat the steelworks etc, the Tories increased the agreed quota, imports from Europe was also increased, a deal with France for example was struck by an agreement to supply them with electricity through a cross channel cable.
Quite a few surprises there to me!.
The only thing not a surprise was the lack of support to the idea of Polish miners being ready to fly over and break the strike…
The 1961 electricity link being into France paying the UK war reparations??
.
The UK supplied the Poles with material when? Before Sept 39?
After the ■■■■ occupation? When the Russians took over?
Who agreed in a debt paid back in coal Stalin?
Were those Polish pilots flying Spitfires and Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain expected to pay for them?
.
Was the UK only on rations because we were sending food and clothing to ■■■■ occupied Europe?
.
That there was a resident East European community in the coalfields is easily credible.
That the UK has a relaxed attitude to East Euro immigration during the Cold War is contentious. That there was a significant flow across the Iron Curtain will take some explaining.
.
That the Polish Gov was selling coal on the open market, and that the UK Gov was buying it is known…
But the rest of it?
ramone:
I remember miners dropping concrete off bridges onto lorries that had crossed the picket lines
More like a false flag fit up on the basis of the question who gains from this and Thatcher already having form in that regard.Having kicked off a needless war in the South Atlantic resulting in the equally needless deaths of loads of people on both sides,arguably just to gain a political advantage.Again for the benefit of Franglais all well into the EU’s watch and Thatcher being a committed Europhile campaigner.
Having said that don’t be surprised if forcing people into desperation results in desperation driven stupidity.
Grumpy Dad:
Scargill didn’t see foreign labour as a gain to the industry, it was taking jobs away from British workers, it was seen as another nail in the coffin, along with the pay and ironically conditions something he raised concerns about after the Lofthouse disaster.
Scargill wasn’t flavour of the month with the Labour Party either,
So yet more evidence that Scargill was/is a Nationalist who ‘wrongly’ thought/thinks he was/is a Socialist.Bearing in mind that to a Socialist there is no such thing as ‘foreign’ workers only a supranational collective of the working class proletariate without National borders.Oh wait.
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
Polish miners were already working in the U.K. and had been for several years, the pit my dad worked at was already approaching a 50/50 workforce at the time of the strike.I’m sure Carryfast will be along shortly to contradict everything and replace it with the federalist socialism crap, he is the fount of knowledge.
I’ve no idea what the national heritage was of your Dad’s colleagues.
I know that has little to do with why the then Polish Gov would support Thatcher against Scargill?I don’t exactly know the politics behind why they were there, wether it was through post war resettlement, relaxed immigration, but they were there, working in mines across Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Yorkshire and the North East.
In the 70’s while Labour closed mines it actually created an employment void in the industry, Labour pushed for extra housing in the mining villages and towns as a form of regeneration of areas which offered employment in the industry, although nepotism was rife throughout, closures proved family loyalty was a much stronger bond, and younger miners who worked beside older less employable family members turned down relocation offers. My dad ( not a miner at the time ) along with many others took up these employment opportunities and moved families for the work.
Scargill didn’t see foreign labour as a gain to the industry, it was taking jobs away from British workers, it was seen as another nail in the coffin, along with the pay and ironically conditions something he raised concerns about after the Lofthouse disaster.
Scargill wasn’t flavour of the month with the Labour Party either, Kinnock saw him as a problem and disliked his approach the increased militancy was not what Labour wanted, but the NUM had gone off on a tangent to Labour.
Due to several years of mediocre action by the miners under Labour, the threats of walk outs and an increased level of militancy Thatcher was advised to prepare for possible strike action by stockpiling at the power stations, this stockpiling would see any strike action out, although the majority of coal produced in the U.K. was for industrial and domestic, the remainder was exported and we imported from across Europe and from Poland. ( Why import and export, because coal is a fossil fuel and has different types, each type has different burning properties. )
The post war agreement with Poland was repayment for the aircraft , weapons, ammunition, vehicles and equipment as well as food and clothing, we supplied to them during WW2, the RAF had 16 Polish squadrons with pilots flying various aircraft Hurricanes and Spitfires during the Battle of Britain as well as Lancaster, Wellington and Halifax bombers some of the missions included D-Day ( a visit to the Polish war cemetery outside Cean is quite interesting ) this agreement was to be repaid back in coal, a commodity we post war needed for obvious restructuring of industries, without coal we couldn’t heat the steelworks etc, the Tories increased the agreed quota, imports from Europe was also increased, a deal with France for example was struck by an agreement to supply them with electricity through a cross channel cable.Grumpy Dad:
Franglais:
Grumpy Dad:
Polish miners were already working in the U.K. and had been for several years, the pit my dad worked at was already approaching a 50/50 workforce at the time of the strike.I’m sure Carryfast will be along shortly to contradict everything and replace it with the federalist socialism crap, he is the fount of knowledge.
I’ve no idea what the national heritage was of your Dad’s colleagues.
I know that has little to do with why the then Polish Gov would support Thatcher against Scargill?I don’t exactly know the politics behind why they were there, wether it was through post war resettlement, relaxed immigration, but they were there, working in mines across Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Yorkshire and the North East.
In the 70’s while Labour closed mines it actually created an employment void in the industry, Labour pushed for extra housing in the mining villages and towns as a form of regeneration of areas which offered employment in the industry, although nepotism was rife throughout, closures proved family loyalty was a much stronger bond, and younger miners who worked beside older less employable family members turned down relocation offers. My dad ( not a miner at the time ) along with many others took up these employment opportunities and moved families for the work.
Scargill didn’t see foreign labour as a gain to the industry, it was taking jobs away from British workers, it was seen as another nail in the coffin, along with the pay and ironically conditions something he raised concerns about after the Lofthouse disaster.
Scargill wasn’t flavour of the month with the Labour Party either, Kinnock saw him as a problem and disliked his approach the increased militancy was not what Labour wanted, but the NUM had gone off on a tangent to Labour.
Due to several years of mediocre action by the miners under Labour, the threats of walk outs and an increased level of militancy Thatcher was advised to prepare for possible strike action by stockpiling at the power stations, this stockpiling would see any strike action out, although the majority of coal produced in the U.K. was for industrial and domestic, the remainder was exported and we imported from across Europe and from Poland. ( Why import and export, because coal is a fossil fuel and has different types, each type has different burning properties. )
The post war agreement with Poland was repayment for the aircraft , weapons, ammunition, vehicles and equipment as well as food and clothing, we supplied to them during WW2, the RAF had 16 Polish squadrons with pilots flying various aircraft Hurricanes and Spitfires during the Battle of Britain as well as Lancaster, Wellington and Halifax bombers some of the missions included D-Day ( a visit to the Polish war cemetery outside Cean is quite interesting ) this agreement was to be repaid back in coal, a commodity we post war needed for obvious restructuring of industries, without coal we couldn’t heat the steelworks etc, the Tories increased the agreed quota, imports from Europe was also increased, a deal with France for example was struck by an agreement to supply them with electricity through a cross channel cable.Quite a few surprises there to me!.
The only thing not a surprise was the lack of support to the idea of Polish miners being ready to fly over and break the strike…
The 1961 electricity link being into France paying the UK war reparations??
.
The UK supplied the Poles with material when? Before Sept 39?
After the ■■■■ occupation? When the Russians took over?
Who agreed in a debt paid back in coal Stalin?
Were those Polish pilots flying Spitfires and Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain expected to pay for them?
.
Was the UK only on rations because we were sending food and clothing to ■■■■ occupied Europe?
.
That there was a resident East European community in the coalfields is easily credible.
That the UK has a relaxed attitude to East Euro immigration during the Cold War is contentious. That there was a significant flow across the Iron Curtain will take some explaining.
.
That the Polish Gov was selling coal on the open market, and that the UK Gov was buying it is known…
But the rest of it?
nicholasjones.org.uk/article … ers-strike
I can see the French selling the UK electricity, as they still do. I can see the Poles selling Thatcher coal. I see UK miners having holidays beyond the Iron Curtain. And later Thatcher backing Polish miners against their Government.
I can’t see a Polish war debt, nor Polish migration (or any other East Bloc) in the 80’s, and nowt about Polish miners on standby to break the strike.
Feel free to point out what I’ve missed?
Franglais:
I can see the French selling the UK electricity, as they still do. I can see the Poles selling Thatcher coal. I see UK miners having holidays beyond the Iron Curtain. And later Thatcher backing Polish miners against their Government.
I can’t see a Polish war debt, nor Polish migration (or any other East Bloc) in the 80’s, and nowt about Polish miners on standby to break the strike.
Feel free to point out what I’ve missed?
Perhaps you should wait for the federalist socialism reply that is no doubt in bound.
It’s what you wish to believe, for an anti Tory believing they wouldn’t undermine the miners you’re quite convincing.
BTW your words not mine 
And the less evidence there is, that’s because of the strong call to silence by those involved, hence the easier to believe it.
Less proof equals more proof!
[ I remember miners dropping concrete off bridges onto lorries that had crossed the picket lines.]
I must have missed that one, as the only incident that I’m aware of that involved dropping a concrete block onto a moving vehicle was the one that occurred in South Wales during the miners’ strike, resulting in the death of a taxi driver, who was in the process of taking a strike breaking miner to his place of work.
The two perpetrators were initially given life sentences for murder, which, following appeal, were reduced to a term of imprisonment of eight years each for manslaughter, of which half of the term was subsequently served.
This incident didn’t do the striking miners any favours, as it created a wave of revulsion among the general public, many of whom, including myself, had previously been sympathetic to the miners’ cause. I’m also of the understanding that it’s generally accepted that the incident shortened the strike markedly.
As I previously stated, I have no recollection of hearing of any similar incidents, however, if any did actually occur, I would be interested to learn of the specific details.
Eddie Heaton:
[ I remember miners dropping concrete off bridges onto lorries that had crossed the picket lines.]I must have missed that one, as the only incident that I’m aware of that involved dropping a concrete block onto a moving vehicle was the one that occurred in South Wales during the miners’ strike, resulting in the death of a taxi driver, who was in the process of taking a strike breaking miner to his place of work.
The two perpetrators were initially given life sentences for murder, which, following appeal, were reduced to a term of imprisonment of eight years each for manslaughter, of which half of the term was subsequently served.
This incident didn’t do the striking miners any favours, as it created a wave of revulsion among the general public, many of whom, including myself, had previously been sympathetic to the miners’ cause. I’m also of the understanding that it’s generally accepted that the incident shortened the strike markedly.
As I previously stated, I have no recollection of hearing of any similar incidents, however, if any did actually occur, I would be interested to learn of the specific details.
I remember that, it was a concrete post if I remember correctly, he was one of 5 killed during the strike, the first at Ollerton initial speculation was that a copper had hit him across the head with his truncheon and he collapsed in the crowd, but it was later revealed he was hit by a brick thrown at the police by a striking miner and collapsed later in the day.
Eddie Heaton:
0You can argue from now until bunnock about which one of these pension chasing career nobheads would make the best prime minister, when what this country really needs, isn’t another Tory, Labour, or Liberal prime minister, it’s a [zb] revolution.
Be very careful about what you post Eddie. If anyone from the thought police reads this, you could be in for a visit from the Old Bill. An ex military man from our area is in the Daily Mail today after posting a very similar thought on ‘Social Media.’ I presume that means Facebook. How much easier to probe deeply into a man in his late sixties wondering about the state of the country than going out into a city centre to investigate the possibility of a serious knife crime?
Now we’re both on the Black List. (Are you even allowed to say that any more?)
John.
If the thought police ever read this thread John, I would imagine one or two of us on here might well end up doing porridge, myself, Buzzer, and your mate from Kendal included.
Who knows?, the three of us might wind up sharing a cell with Carryfast. 
…let’s just hope that they don’t take our shoelaces away from us eh?.. 
Without committing an offence by repeating it, what was said?
And does it matter he was ex-military? Are there different rules for ex-soldiers regarding freedom of speech?
