My take on it from a democratic point of view is that England should be allowed to leave the EU but not the rest of Britain without their consensus
Scotland, Wales, Ireland & Cornwall should stay in the EU as they are historically better looked after by the Democratic Elected reps of Europe rather than the Anglo Saxon (Invader) Westminster Elite - The English are confident they can be the best in the World - let them do it if that is what they want & why not.
Just don’t take all the rest of us with you - we are your friends - in spite of your superiority complex & the redistribution of our council tax to the Home Counties
You just might be on to a good idea there, Whispering, the four of you remaining so that you can benefit from lots of EU grants - after all, you’ve not much to contribute to the EU financially, and I don’t suppose truckloads of Cornish Pasties, cream teas, leeks and Haggis would suffice for Mr. Juncker and his friends. They might like the Whisky though !
Spardo:
Cue CF, who will now say that I am advocating an end to elections. For the record, no, I am not, in fact quite the opposite, I am advocating that in the current system (which I think is seriously flawed, but that is another matter) you vote for the representatives you want, and if you don’t like the way it turns out, you change your mind and vote differently in 5 year’s time.
You’ve already admitted that,like the traitors in the UK ‘parliament’,you’re a committed EU Federalist.Which in this case by definition means that your definition of a so called ‘vote’ means a European majority deciding the fate of the self appointed,illegal,not even declared,de Jure EU Federal Superstate,not a British majority.All because you and those like you think that the majority European vote will act as a force multiplier regarding decisions which you think that you won’t get based on a solely UK National mandate.Which leaves an obvious question as a Federalist,who by definition doesn’t recognise the sovereignty of this country,only that of the EU over it,it’s obvious that you could never agree to our secession from the EU anyway without an EU majority in the EU parliament approving every detail of it.Make no mistake this is an argument that’s all about national self determination and sovereignty and allegiance to which flag.With your allegiance being clear in that regard just like any other brainwashed Federalist down the centuries.From Roman legionary to JNA storm trooper.That all ended well for them.
whisperingsmith:
Scotland, Wales, Ireland & Cornwall should stay in the EU as they are historically better looked after by the Democratic Elected reps of Europe rather than the Anglo Saxon (Invader)
Oh wait it all got so much better for the Scots and Irish and Cornish when England was defeated and wiped out by the Franco Norman invaders and French Plantagenet successors.So going by that lesson of history and your own logic be careful what you wish for.
Don’t like the result of the referendum? then hold another one before the result of the first one is fully implemented, when it appears you might get your way on the rather dubious presumption that sufficient voters have changed their mind.
Don’t like the result so expect that your wishes as above will happen? but then tell those who do like the original result that they will have to wait five years for an election if they don’t like the outcome of your referendum.
That’s heads I win, tails you lose. That’s your democracy is it? Oh forgive me for a second I forgot, that is the whole basis of the current remain argument.
Take this second referendum argument to its logical conclusion and we have a case for having a referendum or four on whether we like a government’s latest budget or not.
You are getting as bad as CF, twisting words or reading words that aren’t there. When did I ever say I wanted a 2nd referendum to leave or not? Never. Because I don’t think it is the way to go. How could I when I didn’t even support the holding of the 1st one? Which also answers your mistaken view that I should support one every 5 years.
Britain is a Parliamentary democracy, unlike Switzerland which has strict rules and checks and balances to avoid the kind of mess that Britain is in now. The resounding slogan of the Brexit camp was ‘take back control’. Yet the moment that Parliament finally does begin to do just that, you cry foul. Did you really think that the control you called for was rule by rabble rousers in the streets? No, of course not, that is what Parliament is meant to do.
And btw Whisperingsmith, do not muddy the waters by branding the English all in the same bracket. Many of them voted remain, while Wales and, yes, Cornwall, voted leave.
Oh, and why is it that of all the flags you display, not one of them is English, or Irish come to that?
Spardo:
You are getting as bad as CF, twisting words or reading words that aren’t there. When did I ever say I wanted a 2nd referendum to leave or not? Never. Because I don’t think it is the way to go. How could I when I didn’t even support the holding of the 1st one? Which also answers your mistaken view that I should support one every 5 years.
Britain is a Parliamentary democracy, unlike Switzerland which has strict rules and checks and balances to avoid the kind of mess that Britain is in now. The resounding slogan of the Brexit camp was ‘take back control’. Yet the moment that Parliament finally does begin to do just that, you cry foul. Did you really think that the control you called for was rule by rabble rousers in the streets? No, of course not, that is what Parliament is meant to do.
And btw Whisperingsmith, do not muddy the waters by branding the English all in the same bracket. Many of them voted remain, while Wales and, yes, Cornwall, voted leave.
Oh, and why is it that of all the flags you display, not one of them is English, or Irish come to that?
Ironically I don’t actually agree that handing over the country’s government and democratic accountability to a foreign power,in the form of being a vassal state of the self appointed illegal country of the EU,is a matter for referendum ‘or’ parliamentary vote.
So exactly which part of ‘take back control’ ( from the EU Federal government ),as opposed to keeping us shackled to EU laws,has been implemented and the government intend to implement ?.IE can I import a vehicle from the US or Australia now for registration here without it being subject to EU imposed type approval and tariffs and can we now ditch the common fisheries rules ?.If not why not as a non EU member state.
> Spardo: > And btw Whisperingsmith, do not muddy the waters by branding the English all in the same bracket. Many of them voted remain, while Wales and, yes, Cornwall, voted leave. > > Oh, and why is it that of all the flags you display, not one of them is English, or Irish come to that?
Bit of fun really Spardo - but The English do have a split personality when it comes to England/Britain, and with the hijacking of the English Flag by the far right, I think a lot of more moderate English (most of England I Think) feel more comfortable with the Union Flag
Hiya…i voted out and not changed my mind…i think some things have been twisted round to scare us in the uk…i remember about 20 years ago
the people in parliament wanted industry out of the uk and more holiday and leisure activities (what about the fffffin weather we don’t have in the UK)
but thats them in westminster know nowt…what i think now is if we don’t leave the EU they’ll know we’re tied to them and taxes they take of us will
spiral out of control…i think we have to leave now right or wrong… just my thoughts
whisperingsmith: > Spardo: > And btw Whisperingsmith, do not muddy the waters by branding the English all in the same bracket. Many of them voted remain, while Wales and, yes, Cornwall, voted leave. > > Oh, and why is it that of all the flags you display, not one of them is English, or Irish come to that?
Bit of fun really Spardo - but The English do have a split personality when it comes to England/Britain, and with the hijacking of the English Flag by the far right, I think a lot of more moderate English (most of England I Think) feel more comfortable with the Union Flag
Not in recent years, I have 2 little flags here, the English and the French, got to search for a Euro one just to complete the set.
But I wouldn’t object to a Welsh one (surely the best flag in the world) and a Cornish one, my immediate ancestry was Welsh (both grandfathers) and the gene pool was added to by the Dunstans of Cornwall as they completed their traverse via Devon from the continent.
Just in case anyone is interested - Parliament will begin a debate on petitions both for and against Brexit tomorrow afternoon from 4:30pm. Watch on parliamentlive.tv/Commons. Should be interesting.
If after everything we have learned about Brexit the majority still want to leave - why do the Brexiteers fear a Peoples Vote - surely if won with a clear majority this would show that they were right all along ■■
whisperingsmith:
If after everything we have learned about Brexit the majority still want to leave - why do the Brexiteers fear a Peoples Vote - surely if won with a clear majority this would show that they were right all along ■■
The main reason is we have had a vote in our so called democratic country and ever since the result was announced the remainers have tried to sabotage the outcome of that vote. Should there be another vote it would destroy any morsel of credibility the government had in the first place. When I voted on my slip was remain or leave plain and simple, no mention of a deal because the vote never went the way the powers thought it would go, why cant we just leave and get on with things under WTO rules and watch us fly, it may be a bit of a rough take off but when we get up and going nothing will stop us.
We all know you don’t like leaving so best find a nice deep old tin mine and get down in the bottom and come out in five years time to see how we have done, only joking really as I want a result so lets get on with it, Buzzer.
Oh, and why is it that of all the flags you display, not one of them is English, or Irish come to that?
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Bit of fun really Spardo - but The English do have a split personality when it comes to England/Britain, and with the hijacking of the English Flag by the far right, I think a lot of more moderate English (most of England I Think) feel more comfortable with the Union Flag
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Staying with the fun line, I did notice the cartoon included the French, with the background colour, bravo !!! Harvey
whisperingsmith:
If after everything we have learned about Brexit the majority still want to leave - why do the Brexiteers fear a Peoples Vote - surely if won with a clear majority this would show that they were right all along ■■
Leave did win with a ‘clear’ majority.Just as remain would have been claiming if they’d have won with 52%.Bearing in mind that there was no minimum majority placed in the referendum Act and if it was on what legal precedent would such a condition be based on.Bearing in mind that we don’t place such a condition of parliamentary elections so why in the case of referenda.
Why would you view another referendum as a so called ‘people’s vote’ but not the 2016 one.Bearing in mind that if the excuse is supposed lies and voting age limit then lies don’t get much worse than the ‘common market’ pretext of the 1975 referendum.Nor heard any attempts by anyone to declare the 1975 referendum result void because of the same voting age limit which is just based on the accepted age limit for parliamentary elections anyway.
Do you intend your so called ‘people’s vote’ to be binding on the government this time unlike the 2016 version.If so why the inconsistency between the basis of the two referenda.
If it’s not binding on the government then what’s the point of either of them.
Notwithstanding all the above on what legal basis does anyone have the right to vote the Nation’s sovereignty out of existence and into a vassal state of the EU.Let alone when the EU is nothing more than an illegal undeclared De Jure,let alone internationally recognised de Facto,Federal European Superstate.On that note there is no such country as the stinking EU under its equally stinking invalid flag and hopefully never will be.In which case your people’s vote is a vote for exactly WHAT and on exactly WHAT legal basis firstly under our own national constitution which doesn’t allow sovereignty to be delegated to a foreign power.Or under international law in which the EU is nothing more than an illegal invalid entity swaggering around on the world stage under an equally false flag as the non country of the EU.
One has to laugh doesn’t one?..well, it’s either that or ■■■■■ ones wrists.
On a BBC programme this morning, it was suggested that when ( or the way things seem to be shaping up in my view, if ) the UK tears itself free from the European Union, then Britain may be in danger of running out of toilet roll, seeing as how the raw material is imported from the continent…I wonder…to what lengths will they actually go to try to scare 17 + million voters into changing their minds?.. for ****'s sake!.. sweet baby Jesus asleep in a manger, give me ******* strength.
Well I personally can’t see a problem here, after all, there must be a mountain of unused referendum ballot papers stored in a warehouse somewhere that we could use, and let’s be honest here, it’s becoming increasingly evident that this is the purpose for which they would have been better employed.
It’s just a pity that sitting on the fence isn’t an Olympic event…, if it were, then this country would sweep the board, taking gold, silver and bronze…I kid you not.
As for myself, well just colour me disillusioned. And with regard to any future ballots, well as far as I’m concerned, the right honourable members can just go and ■■■■ themselves right honourably off.
Eddie Heaton:
One has to laugh doesn’t one?..well, it’s either that or ■■■■■ ones wrists.
On a BBC programme this morning, it was suggested that when ( or the way things seem to be shaping up in my view, if ) the UK tears itself free from the European Union, then Britain may be in danger of running out of toilet roll, seeing as how the raw material is imported from the continent…I wonder…what lengths will they actually go to try to scare 17 + million voters into changing their minds for ****'s sake!.. sweet baby Jesus asleep in a manger, give me ******* strength.
