The company I work for is a former ERF operator and as far as the owner is concerned it was the ■■■■■■■ engine that was the main selling point for ERF. We have some MANs…suffice it to say that we will definitely not be having anymore.
kr79:
■■■■■■■ and cat pulling out of the loose engine market at euro 4 was the final nail in the coffin
I forgot to mention the other massive damaging factor of EU membership.Which was all about opening our market up to Euro imports while at the same time removing whatever chance we might have had to fight back. 
gingerfold:
No, they could not have continued. It’s all about economies of scale in production these days, and Foden and ERF did not have that. The trend has been to vertically integrated manufacturing which most operators prefer with all major components made or designed in-house. Good luck to those who are still running ERFs and Fodens and for keeping the flag flying, but you are a minority. Even 20 years ago when I worked for Turners it was hard work finding drivers who would drive an ERF when the alternatives in the fleet were Volvo, Scania, and DAF.
Going by the ERF European topic what was needed was to progress more along the lines of that product rather than the B series in a protected domestic market that didn’t give drivers/cutomers a choice.In that regard the choice of ■■■■■■■ and Fuller or nothing and a decent all metal cab in a protected domestic market probably would have seen them still in business today or at least more chance of it.
Gazsa401
How right you are about “Badge Snobbery”. To me the job ,money and conditions come first , what truck you drive comes after.
If you get a Scania or Volvo that could be the “icing on the cake” but some people like plain cakes so would be equally happy with an ERF or Foden. Also with the cost premium of Scania’s and Volvo’s compared to ERF’s and Fodens ( at the time when they were producing as individuals ) it may make the job a bit more secure if a bit less finance is being paid out.
IMO ERF and Foden wouldn’t have lasted much longer than they did and I say that as an ERF devotee, to me a very good truck maker which, unfortunately for the British haulage industry was just a bit too late trying to catch up with the continentals.
They were too much of the style of this is what we make ,this is what you will have, and left it too long before listening to what the operators wanted. But when the penny finally dropped they produced some ■■■■ good trucks equal to the foreigners and in many respects better, but due to many things and I believe finance ( or lack of it ) was one of them possibly delivery times another ,the market had drifted across the water.
I have been to ERF’s at Sandbach and seen the production line, whilst it was fascinating to observe you could see it was very limited. I have also been to Volvo’s factories and seen their production lines, I’m afraid it was chalk and cheese.
ERF would have needed tens of millions to get facilities to equal the continentals and IMO the market isn’t big enough for that sort of expenditure when others are there and up and running.
I would love to see an up to date ERF or non Paccar Foden come on the market, but I think it is just a pipe dream.
Now if the families had got together again who knows what that would have resulted in.
Cheers Bassman
John West:
windrush:
dieseldog999:
looks like this has instantly turned into an oldtimers best of british debate now… classic truckshows,rolling your own ■■■■,5 gallon drums for seats,and drinking pints of scruddoks original real ale with lumps in it…ooooh the good old days…was the original q not,could they have continued?Not really, not from me anyway. I said that Foden as they were originally would have struggled but later, under Paccar, I think they could have held their own. Price would have a lot to do with it though, I assume the Continental trucks were more competetive on price as they were massed produced and not built to order? ERF were just assemblers virtually from day one so I can’t see any reason why they couldn’t have continued either, if the price and specc was right. Presumably they both failed because they couldn’t make them for a competetive price?
Pete.
There is of course another factor - state help or control.
Our car industry died. Then, with Japanese help, prospered to the point where the UK makes more than France (despite french claims that ‘the UK doesn’t make anything any more’).
Would our truck industry have survived with ‘state’ help?
Par example: Renault?
John
your right enough with that logic,if the government bailed them out,it would only have been because it would have cost them less than paying out dole money to them,but no matter who owned who,it was still british trucks, built in Britain with british workmanship,which was always abysmall compared to everyone else,hence good riddance etc…just my opinion though,each to their own again,but thank Christ Volvo and scania came into Britain around the same time as the japs came in with cars,otherwise we would all still be driving morris marinas and maxis 
Hiya…whats this abysmall workforce
3300John:
Hiya…whats this abysmall workforce thing diesel dog…theres no finer workmanship than in the 60,70,80,in british industry
there s plenty of people will back me up. anything you wanted making could be made in GT Britain. whats happend since i don,t know
but don,t say iy was the workers. when i worked at Jennings on the wood and sheet metal side anything you asked for could be made.
in the trim shop seats was covered and horsebox interiors was fitted out like you never saw…everything hand made.
i ve worked at Stanlow refinery since 2004 the stories of what machine workers have made is increadabel all foreigners of course .
my first foreman was a panel beater after he retired he became a silversmith. these a write up about him on the ERF MW site i put
on last year his work is up there with the best. abysmall does not apply to many craftsmen. you mention Volvo, the cab quality on a F88
is disgusting. F88s that have stood under cover have rotted away…Volvo F88 Brakes just forget the subject not even in the same class as
ERF and Foden…please don t blame the British craftsman most of them had their hands tied. when Jennings closed down 2 workers
retired from the trim shop the 3 others walked straight into Rolls Royce at Crewe making seats. these men was making seats for ERF trucks
before been employed at Rolls Royce.i say if ERF could have come up with a good 250 bhp engine and a sleeper cab with a good heater
in the early 70,s and moved with he times they would have run the race with Volvo. operators just wanted to stay in the dark ages wanting
Gardner engines it was a night mare trying to sell ■■■■■■■ engines and Fuller gearboxes. change was coming and operators didn t want it.
Volvo was a cheap import with no credit to its name. but soon become a threat to British trucks.
John
british workmanship for the truck or car industry was garbage in build quality compared to everything else,apart from thet,then unions and workers themselves sealed their own fate.volvo and scania with the others at their back just breezed in and when there was an option for better trucks,more and more took it,with every one being a nail in the coffin for the vehicle industry in Britain. basic and crudely built scrap compared to the foriegners,hence down the pan for Britain.if they were good quality and a conciencious workforce,then Britain would still have a motor industry. land rover and mini being the exception,but every design part that they use is antiquated,or a electronig bag of crap…minis still use the head problem engine they’ve always used…ldv vans used the vm Italian diesel enging that was the most unreliable overheated engine since they stuck it into a rangerover in 1985…if you look at an older range rover or disco then its morris marina door handles,montego window buttons,mirror switches etc…they always had a logic consisting of…were going to make a new car,we have 10 million old switches in stock,lets make a car based on that switch. any older rr or lr would have door gaps you could stick your fingers in.i had a garage /car sales for years,and with the warranty companies,then if it was a british 4x4 then the warranty costs double to that of a shogun /landcruiser etc,for the simple reason that british built vehicles were badly built to standards that were unacceptable by any other manufacturer i.e.the japs.like trucks,rr and lr have their following,but the build quality is terrible,similar to the attitude of the average factory worker here… you know the story when you drive into gettipped,and the forkies disappear,and your waiting ages,british logic,how little can I do and how unhelpfull a jobsworth can I be for as much wages as possible…then bleat when my company goes down the pan.
3300John:
Hiya…whats this abysmall workforce thing diesel dog…theres no finer workmanship than in the 60,70,80,in british industry
there s plenty of people will back me up. anything you wanted making could be made in GT Britain. whats happend since i don,t know
but don,t say iy was the workers. when i worked at Jennings on the wood and sheet metal side anything you asked for could be made.
in the trim shop seats was covered and horsebox interiors was fitted out like you never saw…everything hand made.
i ve worked at Stanlow refinery since 2004 the stories of what machine workers have made is increadabel all foreigners of course .
my first foreman was a panel beater after he retired he became a silversmith. these a write up about him on the ERF MW site i put
on last year his work is up there with the best. abysmall does not apply to many craftsmen. you mention Volvo, the cab quality on a F88
is disgusting. F88s that have stood under cover have rotted away…Volvo F88 Brakes just forget the subject not even in the same class as
ERF and Foden…please don t blame the British craftsman most of them had their hands tied. when Jennings closed down 2 workers
retired from the trim shop the 3 others walked straight into Rolls Royce at Crewe making seats. these men was making seats for ERF trucks
before been employed at Rolls Royce.i say if ERF could have come up with a good 250 bhp engine and a sleeper cab with a good heater
in the early 70,s and moved with he times they would have run the race with Volvo. operators just wanted to stay in the dark ages wanting
Gardner engines it was a night mare trying to sell ■■■■■■■ engines and Fuller gearboxes. change was coming and operators didn t want it.
Volvo was a cheap import with no credit to its name. but soon become a threat to British trucks.
John
^ This.
It gets tiring seeing yet more bs obviously from the point of view of those who’d never stepped inside a typical 1970’s production operation let alone worked in one amongst other ignorant biased bs which is trying to make the case that an F88 was a better wagon than the ERF European. 
At the time in question we’re talking about the same generation that had recently out engineered the Germans to defeat passing on their skills to the next generation.The difference then being that they weren’t mugs they wanted change to want went before in the form of decent wages and terms and conditions.Meanwhile the government wanted to take ( and finally succeeded in taking ) us backwards.
As for the Scandinavians it would have been interesting to have seen what they could have turned out ‘if’ they’ have been in the same situation as us in not only having to pay the debts incurred in fighting two world wars but also effectively having to pay for the Axis’ post war recovery programme.Bearing in mind that we’re talking about that difference between the ERF European v the F88 at the time in question for example.
As for Austin Morris ( or ERF ) it is no more fair to blame British workers for the retrograde type of zb boxes ( such as the 1100,Maxi etc etc v the Westminster or the B series v the European ) which their guvnors and designers were forced into making by the economic circumstances,which our government created.Than it is to blame German ones for the difference between the Opel Vectra v the old Senator or Omega.
While the fact that the Japs can do cheap and nasty and slave labour terms and conditions better than anyone else in the world is beyond doubt but totally irrelevant and obviously just part of the diversionary tactics used by those who are trying to shift a lot of the blame from where it belongs in the form of the ignorant,backward thinking, disloyal domestic market customer base.
3300John:
Hiya…whats this abysmall workforce thing diesel dog…theres no finer workmanship than in the 60,70,80,in british industry
there s plenty of people will back me up. anything you wanted making could be made in GT Britain. whats happend since i don,t know
but don,t say iy was the workers. when i worked at Jennings on the wood and sheet metal side anything you asked for could be made.
in the trim shop seats was covered and horsebox interiors was fitted out like you never saw…everything hand made.
i ve worked at Stanlow refinery since 2004 the stories of what machine workers have made is increadabel all foreigners of course .
my first foreman was a panel beater after he retired he became a silversmith. these a write up about him on the ERF MW site i put
on last year his work is up there with the best. abysmall does not apply to many craftsmen. you mention Volvo, the cab quality on a F88
is disgusting. F88s that have stood under cover have rotted away…Volvo F88 Brakes just forget the subject not even in the same class as
ERF and Foden…please don t blame the British craftsman most of them had their hands tied. when Jennings closed down 2 workers
retired from the trim shop the 3 others walked straight into Rolls Royce at Crewe making seats. these men was making seats for ERF trucks
before been employed at Rolls Royce.i say if ERF could have come up with a good 250 bhp engine and a sleeper cab with a good heater
in the early 70,s and moved with he times they would have run the race with Volvo. operators just wanted to stay in the dark ages wanting
Gardner engines it was a night mare trying to sell ■■■■■■■ engines and Fuller gearboxes. change was coming and operators didn t want it.
Volvo was a cheap import with no credit to its name. but soon become a threat to British trucks.
John
Here’s a sign of bad British workmanship
We ran a batch of late B “series” ERFs I think 12 in total all Gardner powered they gave us tremendous service nearly all were kept for 10 years plus
All were double trunked some triple trunked 6 days a week 24 hours a day
Then after 5 years they were transferred on to our roaming fleet after been converted into sleepers
Coupled to this ERF is a 1967 33ft Crane Frehauf trailer which again we had half a dozen converted in the early 80s from a flat beds to a box trailers and used on a Raleigh bicycle contract we had theses trailers again bad British workmanship were finally disposed of in 2006 after our depot closed down
dieseldog999:
3300John:
Hiya…whats this abysmall workforce thing diesel dog…theres no finer workmanship than in the 60,70,80,in british industry
there s plenty of people will back me up. anything you wanted making could be made in GT Britain. whats happend since i don,t know
but don,t say iy was the workers. when i worked at Jennings on the wood and sheet metal side anything you asked for could be made.
in the trim shop seats was covered and horsebox interiors was fitted out like you never saw…everything hand made.
i ve worked at Stanlow refinery since 2004 the stories of what machine workers have made is increadabel all foreigners of course .
my first foreman was a panel beater after he retired he became a silversmith. these a write up about him on the ERF MW site i put
on last year his work is up there with the best. abysmall does not apply to many craftsmen. you mention Volvo, the cab quality on a F88
is disgusting. F88s that have stood under cover have rotted away…Volvo F88 Brakes just forget the subject not even in the same class as
ERF and Foden…please don t blame the British craftsman most of them had their hands tied. when Jennings closed down 2 workers
retired from the trim shop the 3 others walked straight into Rolls Royce at Crewe making seats. these men was making seats for ERF trucks
before been employed at Rolls Royce.i say if ERF could have come up with a good 250 bhp engine and a sleeper cab with a good heater
in the early 70,s and moved with he times they would have run the race with Volvo. operators just wanted to stay in the dark ages wanting
Gardner engines it was a night mare trying to sell ■■■■■■■ engines and Fuller gearboxes. change was coming and operators didn t want it.
Volvo was a cheap import with no credit to its name. but soon become a threat to British trucks.
Johnbritish workmanship for the truck or car industry was garbage in build quality compared to everything else,apart from thet,then unions and workers themselves sealed their own fate.volvo and scania with the others at their back just breezed in and when there was an option for better trucks,more and more took it,with every one being a nail in the coffin for the vehicle industry in Britain. basic and crudely built scrap compared to the foriegners,hence down the pan for Britain.if they were good quality and a conciencious workforce,then Britain would still have a motor industry. land rover and mini being the exception,but every design part that they use is antiquated,or a electronig bag of crap…minis still use the head problem engine they’ve always used…ldv vans used the vm Italian diesel enging that was the most unreliable overheated engine since they stuck it into a rangerover in 1985…if you look at an older range rover or disco then its morris marina door handles,montego window buttons,mirror switches etc…they always had a logic consisting of…were going to make a new car,we have 10 million old switches in stock,lets make a car based on that switch. any older rr or lr would have door gaps you could stick your fingers in.i had a garage /car sales for years,and with the warranty companies,then if it was a british 4x4 then the warranty costs double to that of a shogun /landcruiser etc,for the simple reason that british built vehicles were badly built to standards that were unacceptable by any other manufacturer i.e.the japs.like trucks,rr and lr have their following,but the build quality is terrible,similar to the attitude of the average factory worker here… you know the story when you drive into gettipped,and the forkies disappear,and your waiting ages,british logic,how little can I do and how unhelpfull a jobsworth can I be for as much wages as possible…then bleat when my company goes down the pan.
dieseldog999 when the first Japanese motors first came on sale they were so bad that they made the Austin /Morris 1100s and Marina’s look like world beaters the bodies used to rot far more than any British built car of the time but they did eventually get it correct and they are now as good as anything else.
cheers Johnnie
If any of you ever get the chance to visit the DAF assembley plant at Leyland it is well worth going. There you will see an up-to-the-minute world class facility manned by British workers that produce between 60 and 70 trucks a day on a site that is only a fraction of the size of all the old Leyland Motors plants. Granted, nothing is manufactured there, every component is brought in from other plants either in the UK or Europe, but it is how all the major vehicle makers operate these days. IIRC the workforce is about 400, compared with the old Leyland days of 6,000 workers (at Leyland) for about 80 chassis a day at its peak.
gingerfold:
If any of you ever get the chance to visit the DAF assembley plant at Leyland it is well worth going. There you will see an up-to-the-minute world class facility manned by British workers that produce between 60 and 70 trucks a day on a site that is only a fraction of the size of all the old Leyland Motors plants. Granted, nothing is manufactured there, every component is brought in from other plants either in the UK or Europe, but it is how all the major vehicle makers operate these days. IIRC the workforce is about 400, compared with the old Leyland days of 6,000 workers (at Leyland) for about 80 chassis a day at its peak.
The result being ‘assembly’ operation like ERF and in house ones like Leyland,that employed more domestic workers in the domestic economy producing a much higher proportion of the componentry used,being sold out to what we’ve got now in the form of British jobs for Dutch/German etc etc workers making outsourced components.While our own population gets sent to ‘university’ to learn non subjects to fund their own unemployment in the form of student loans which they will probably never pay back.All done on the basis that British workers supposedly aren’t good enough.When the fact is the country has been sold out by its own government on the basis of the foreign aid scam which was the post war european rebuilding programme of which EU membership was/is an essential part.Then the government has the nerve to call that ‘progress’.
gazsa401:
We ran a batch of late B “series” ERFs I think 12 in total all Gardner powered they gave us tremendous service nearly all were kept for 10 years plus
All were double trunked some triple trunked 6 days a week 24 hours a day
Then after 5 years they were transferred on to our roaming fleet after been converted into sleepers
Coupled to this ERF is a 1967 33ft Crane Frehauf trailer which again we had half a dozen converted in the early 80s from a flat beds to a box trailers and used on a Raleigh bicycle contract we had theses trailers again bad British workmanship were finally disposed of in 2006 after our depot closed down
Ironically it was the idea of the arguable retrograde move from the formula contained in the European,to the combination of SP cab and keeping the Gardner engine option and that being seen as ‘progress’,in the face of competition like the F10/12,that helped to create that unjustified blaming of the ‘workers’ .While arguably starting ERF on the downward slope from the clear advantage which the European had over the F88.
sammyopisite:
dieseldog999:
3300John:
Hiya…whats this abysmall workforce thing diesel dog…theres no finer workmanship than in the 60,70,80,in british industry
there s plenty of people will back me up. anything you wanted making could be made in GT Britain. whats happend since i don,t know
but don,t say iy was the workers. when i worked at Jennings on the wood and sheet metal side anything you asked for could be made.
in the trim shop seats was covered and horsebox interiors was fitted out like you never saw…everything hand made.
i ve worked at Stanlow refinery since 2004 the stories of what machine workers have made is increadabel all foreigners of course .
my first foreman was a panel beater after he retired he became a silversmith. these a write up about him on the ERF MW site i put
on last year his work is up there with the best. abysmall does not apply to many craftsmen. you mention Volvo, the cab quality on a F88
is disgusting. F88s that have stood under cover have rotted away…Volvo F88 Brakes just forget the subject not even in the same class as
ERF and Foden…please don t blame the British craftsman most of them had their hands tied. when Jennings closed down 2 workers
retired from the trim shop the 3 others walked straight into Rolls Royce at Crewe making seats. these men was making seats for ERF trucks
before been employed at Rolls Royce.i say if ERF could have come up with a good 250 bhp engine and a sleeper cab with a good heater
in the early 70,s and moved with he times they would have run the race with Volvo. operators just wanted to stay in the dark ages wanting
Gardner engines it was a night mare trying to sell ■■■■■■■ engines and Fuller gearboxes. change was coming and operators didn t want it.
Volvo was a cheap import with no credit to its name. but soon become a threat to British trucks.
Johnbritish workmanship for the truck or car industry was garbage in build quality compared to everything else,apart from thet,then unions and workers themselves sealed their own fate.volvo and scania with the others at their back just breezed in and when there was an option for better trucks,more and more took it,with every one being a nail in the coffin for the vehicle industry in Britain. basic and crudely built scrap compared to the foriegners,hence down the pan for Britain.if they were good quality and a conciencious workforce,then Britain would still have a motor industry. land rover and mini being the exception,but every design part that they use is antiquated,or a electronig bag of crap…minis still use the head problem engine they’ve always used…ldv vans used the vm Italian diesel enging that was the most unreliable overheated engine since they stuck it into a rangerover in 1985…if you look at an older range rover or disco then its morris marina door handles,montego window buttons,mirror switches etc…they always had a logic consisting of…were going to make a new car,we have 10 million old switches in stock,lets make a car based on that switch. any older rr or lr would have door gaps you could stick your fingers in.i had a garage /car sales for years,and with the warranty companies,then if it was a british 4x4 then the warranty costs double to that of a shogun /landcruiser etc,for the simple reason that british built vehicles were badly built to standards that were unacceptable by any other manufacturer i.e.the japs.like trucks,rr and lr have their following,but the build quality is terrible,similar to the attitude of the average factory worker here… you know the story when you drive into gettipped,and the forkies disappear,and your waiting ages,british logic,how little can I do and how unhelpfull a jobsworth can I be for as much wages as possible…then bleat when my company goes down the pan.
dieseldog999 when the first Japanese motors first came on sale they were so bad that they made the Austin /Morris 1100s and Marina’s look like world beaters the bodies used to rot far more than any British built car of the time but they did eventually get it correct and they are now as good as anything else.
cheers Johnnie
in your dreams johnnie boy…
my memories or rusty scrap would be montegos,maxis and everything inbetween from bl…the japs are not now as good as everything else…they are everything else along with the rest of European car manufacturers,so apart from r and l rover,the uk vehicle industry is justifyably dead and buried…
Carryfast:
gazsa401:
We ran a batch of late B “series” ERFs I think 12 in total all Gardner powered they gave us tremendous service nearly all were kept for 10 years plus
All were double trunked some triple trunked 6 days a week 24 hours a day
Then after 5 years they were transferred on to our roaming fleet after been converted into sleepers
Coupled to this ERF is a 1967 33ft Crane Frehauf trailer which again we had half a dozen converted in the early 80s from a flat beds to a box trailers and used on a Raleigh bicycle contract we had theses trailers again bad British workmanship were finally disposed of in 2006 after our depot closed downIronically it was the idea of the arguable retrograde move from the formula contained in the European,to the combination of SP cab and keeping the Gardner engine option and that being seen as ‘progress’,in the face of competition like the F10/12,that helped to create that unjustified blaming of the ‘workers’ .While arguably starting ERF on the downward slope from the clear advantage which the European had over the F88.
Again Carryfast it’s down to each other’s preference and I’ve posted comments on other threads regarding operators choice of lorries
Stirlands who I worked for chose a tried and tested method which stood us well we operated lorries which were reliable economical and had very little downtime
We had many dealers trying to get their foot in the door but when our fleet engineer quoted the mileage we were doing most ran a mile
In the late 90s early 00s we did operate some Volvo FM 12s and FH 12s unfortunately after 2 years of 24hr 6 days a week operation the FM 12s were worn out and disposed of and after only 200ks one of the FH12s shoved a con rod through the block and Volvo wouldn’t pay anything towards the cost of a replacement engine due to the high mileage that was done in such a short space of time after that we changed to DAFs
gazsa401:
Carryfast:
gazsa401:
We ran a batch of late B “series” ERFs I think 12 in total all Gardner powered they gave us tremendous service nearly all were kept for 10 years plus
All were double trunked some triple trunked 6 days a week 24 hours a day
Then after 5 years they were transferred on to our roaming fleet after been converted into sleepers
Coupled to this ERF is a 1967 33ft Crane Frehauf trailer which again we had half a dozen converted in the early 80s from a flat beds to a box trailers and used on a Raleigh bicycle contract we had theses trailers again bad British workmanship were finally disposed of in 2006 after our depot closed downIronically it was the idea of the arguable retrograde move from the formula contained in the European,to the combination of SP cab and keeping the Gardner engine option and that being seen as ‘progress’,in the face of competition like the F10/12,that helped to create that unjustified blaming of the ‘workers’ .While arguably starting ERF on the downward slope from the clear advantage which the European had over the F88.
Again Carryfast it’s down to each other’s preference and I’ve posted comments on other threads regarding operators choice of lorries
Stirlands who I worked for chose a tried and tested method which stood us well we operated lorries which were reliable economical and had very little downtime
We had many dealers trying to get their foot in the door but when our fleet engineer quoted the mileage we were doing most ran a mile
In the late 90s early 00s we did operate some Volvo FM 12s and FH 12s unfortunately after 2 years of 24hr 6 days a week operation the FM 12s were worn out and disposed of and after only 200ks one of the FH12s shoved a con rod through the block and Volvo wouldn’t pay anything towards the cost of a replacement engine due to the high mileage that was done in such a short space of time after that we changed to DAFs
Secondly I came off a FM12 back onto a EC12 and I thought the cab layout and space was far superior to the Volvo so ironically the EC cab was the last of the SP design which again in my own opinion Volvo had took a giant step backwards from the F10/12 design in creating the FM cab
dieseldog999:
my memories or rusty scrap would be montegos,maxis and everything inbetween from bl…the japs are not now as good as everything else…they are everything else along with the rest of European car manufacturers,so apart from r and l rover,the uk vehicle industry is justifyably dead and buried…
Your ‘memories’ seem more like a selective example of the worst case scenarios of the direction which Austin Morris division went along.As opposed to better days before the cheap third rate zb boxes wether home produced or Jap crap imports.Meanwhile British v Jap in the real world 
being that selective reference is obviously allowed.
youtube.com/watch?v=ExTrCblwAhs
youtube.com/watch?v=D8GcAxj_oNI
youtube.com/watch?v=hVi_MgOg4jo
Classic Jap crap. 
Hiya i was talking Craftsmen…
Evening all,
Keeps popping up like the elusive Loch Ness Monster does it not? Could they? Would they? what if?..
The demise of the UK lorry manufacturing business…who was, (is), to blame?
Operators with "luddite attitudes?..and no cash because there were just too many of them chasing too little work, (thank you Barbara Castle, and her ill thought out reforms to the licencing system)!!!
Poor quality workmanship? If so, why? For our indigenous labour force was the equal of any other…and believe me, I have worked alongside some of the “others”!!
Poor quality design…but our manufacturers engineered and designed for the largest market in the World…the United Kingdom. And any analysis of “cutting edge” engineering, and design of automotive products world wide will find some, (significant), UK input, either personal, or corporate.
Poor quality Management…depends totally where you look…trying to run an underfunded, short credit line operation, well you cannot help but make compromise decisions, and long term planning is impossible. …But then you have the “big” business in manufacturing…and with size comes the industrial “cancer” of “middle management”…Fiefdoms protected by copious buerocratic means…But that also applies, (and sometimes in greater form), in all of the major European manufacturers…to this very day!!!
So what was the fundamental problem??
Joining a big club, (the European Union), that we , (Politicians, Industrialists), had regarded as second string to our own market, and former Empire.
Politically failing to legislate to harmonise our regulations to come into line with the E U.
Failing to enforce existing legislation regarding vehicle dimensions in regard to imported vehicles,…A major failing, and a tactic used to great effect by our European “partners”, to obstruct the sale of UK manufactured vehicles in overseas markets…Protectionism personified!!!Had it been done, the rise of tractor sales from Volvo, Scania, Fiat, and DAF, would have been severely restricted…they would have had to manufacture a model for the UK , not subsidise their standard EU models.
Subsidise…surely not?..Can you remember the prices of spares for certain Scandanavian lorries…cheap to buy the lorry,…try relining some brakes…how about a clutch…or mechanical bits…My old friend, the supremely knowledgable John Dickson Simpson wrote a superbly analytical piece on this very subject for the Institute of Road Transport Engineers magazine…
But hey ho, you could get a “foreigner”, on immediate delivery…of course you could…just look at the market sales figures for France, Sweden, Holland, Italy, in the late 60s, and 70s…there were fields full of product, with no where to go!!! Britain, (the Virgin), opened her doors to unrestricted imports…the rest is history…
New dealers sprang up, ready to do business, and, so vital in any mature market where the ratio between investment and return is so very low…they gave high service levels, (irrespective of the quality of the product), they supported the purchaser…and that naturally led to increased sales, and market penetration.
Politicians, legislators, Industry organisations, Trade Unions, Bankers, all threw their two pennys worth into the mix…and our industry sank…and apart from us within the industry did anyone care…OF COURSE NOT!
Lorries are not like the emotive world of the motor car…public enemy number one…Now whose fault is that■■?
Cheerio for now.
Carryfast:
dieseldog999:
my memories or rusty scrap would be montegos,maxis and everything inbetween from bl…the japs are not now as good as everything else…they are everything else along with the rest of European car manufacturers,so apart from r and l rover,the uk vehicle industry is justifyably dead and buried…Your ‘memories’ seem more like a selective example of the worst case scenarios of the direction which Austin Morris division went along.As opposed to better days before the cheap third rate zb boxes wether home produced or Jap crap imports.Meanwhile British v Jap in the real world
youtube.com/watch?v=ExTrCblwAhs
youtube.com/watch?v=D8GcAxj_oNI
youtube.com/watch?v=hVi_MgOg4jo
Classic Jap crap.
each to their own,at the end of the day every other manufacturer is still doing their bit,and bl for various reasons including the truck industry is down the pan… 