I’m very pleased the lorry has been acquired by reputable preservers. I hope they are the ones responsible for the 5MW which I have drooled over elsewhere in this forum. 
The trimmer, in his search for seat cover material, may stumbke across this lol:
[zb]
anorak:
I’m very pleased the lorry has been acquired by reputable preservers. I hope they are the ones responsible for the 5MW which I have drooled over elsewhere in this forum.The trimmer, in his search for seat cover material, may stumbke across this lol:
colinwallace1:
ERF-NGC-European:
One of my contacts in Holland has just sent me these pics of the R Collin unit, taken while it was still in France. He was sent them by someone else who found them on FB. Cheers, Robert
210
Looks great Robert, like its just emerged from a time capsule.
Must have had a good operator, to be so straight.
Hope it’s not a collector that locks things away, never to be seen again.
Would be very interesting to see the stages of the restoration posted on here.
Cheers. Colin.
Hello Colin! Yes, I share your hopes that we get to see the unit either as work progresses or at least when the restoration is complete. Robert
DEANB:
Nice Ken Beresford pic !
That’s a great picture, Dean; with nice context too. I’m pretty certain that’s JDF 132N, which is the NGC Beresford owned (rather than the subbie GEH 513N, which had breather pipes up the back of the cab). Good find.
Cheers, Robert
A very well-respected ERF man recently shared with me his calculations re RT versus RTO gearboxes in NGCs, as follows:
‘As a datum point, we’ll take a an engine speed of 1800 RPM.
With an RT ‘box, this obviously gives a prop shaft speed of 1800 RPM in top gear.
With 10.00R20 tyres, and an axle ratio of 4.64:1, this gives a road speed of 47.3 MPH.
Substitute the 12.00R20 tyres of the NGC, and the road speed increases to 50.8 MPH.
Substitute the RTO ‘box, together with the 12.00R20 tyres, and the road speed increases to 58.4 MPH.
If we revert to a datum road speed of 50.8 MPH, with the RT ‘box the engine speed (as above) is 1800. With the RTO ‘box, it reduces to 1566 RPM.
In my opinion an RTO ‘box in an NGC would be over-geared for the torque characteristics of the 335 ‘small cam’ 855 series engine.
A ‘big cam’ 855 had very different torque properties, and would possibly suit an RTO gearbox better with the NGC’s axle/wheel size combination.’
And as we know, there were only two NGCs with the big-cam 14-litre ■■■■■■■■■ one of which was the last to be despatched in Dec ’77.
Robert
You are in the woods. It is becoming dark. You cannot see, hear or even smell the bear, but you know he will come, for legendary reasons if nothing else.
Robert, Re the De Meulemeester ERF according to the company website it had a 350 bhp fitted.
Intrestingly they also operated a Bedford TM with a 320 bhp Detroit motor.
ERF-NGC-European:
A very well-respected ERF man recently shared with me his calculations re RT versus RTO gearboxes in NGCs, as follows:‘As a datum point, we’ll take a an engine speed of 1800 RPM.
With an RT ‘box, this obviously gives a prop shaft speed of 1800 RPM in top gear.
With 10.00R20 tyres, and an axle ratio of 4.64:1, this gives a road speed of 47.3 MPH.
Substitute the 12.00R20 tyres of the NGC, and the road speed increases to 50.8 MPH.
Substitute the RTO ‘box, together with the 12.00R20 tyres, and the road speed increases to 58.4 MPH.
If we revert to a datum road speed of 50.8 MPH, with the RT ‘box the engine speed (as above) is 1800. With the RTO ‘box, it reduces to 1566 RPM.
In my opinion an RTO ‘box in an NGC would be over-geared for the torque characteristics of the 335 ‘small cam’ 855 series engine.
A ‘big cam’ 855 had very different torque properties, and would possibly suit an RTO gearbox better with the NGC’s axle/wheel size combination.’And as we know, there were only two NGCs with the big-cam 14-litre ■■■■■■■■■ one of which was the last to be despatched in Dec ’77.
Robert
Peak torque 930 lb/ft 1,500 rpm.Also 90 kmh motorway max ?.
DEANB:
Robert, Re the De Meulemeester ERF according to the company website it had a 350 bhp fitted.2
0
Intrestingly they also operated a Bedford TM with a 320 bhp Detroit motor.
1
Yes, ‘ERF-Continental’ did post this picture a few months ago on here with a description of the trailer. But I think the information about the engine is incorrect, as John Simmons Heavy Haulage acquired it for spares (for GEH 314N) and it had an NTC 335 with a 13-speed Fuller 'box (probably a conversion kit). Cheers, Robert
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
A very well-respected ERF man recently shared with me his calculations re RT versus RTO gearboxes in NGCs, as follows:‘As a datum point, we’ll take a an engine speed of 1800 RPM.
With an RT ‘box, this obviously gives a prop shaft speed of 1800 RPM in top gear.
With 10.00R20 tyres, and an axle ratio of 4.64:1, this gives a road speed of 47.3 MPH.
Substitute the 12.00R20 tyres of the NGC, and the road speed increases to 50.8 MPH.
Substitute the RTO ‘box, together with the 12.00R20 tyres, and the road speed increases to 58.4 MPH.
If we revert to a datum road speed of 50.8 MPH, with the RT ‘box the engine speed (as above) is 1800. With the RTO ‘box, it reduces to 1566 RPM.
In my opinion an RTO ‘box in an NGC would be over-geared for the torque characteristics of the 335 ‘small cam’ 855 series engine.
A ‘big cam’ 855 had very different torque properties, and would possibly suit an RTO gearbox better with the NGC’s axle/wheel size combination.’And as we know, there were only two NGCs with the big-cam 14-litre ■■■■■■■■■ one of which was the last to be despatched in Dec ’77.
Robert
Peak torque 930 lb/ft 1,500 rpm.Also 90 kmh motorway max ?.
Most of the Continent then was 80kph apart from Holland. Robert
[zb]
anorak:
You are in the woods. It is becoming dark. You cannot see, hear or even smell the bear, but you know he will come, for legendary reasons if nothing else.
I like to live dangerously 
Robert
DEANB:
Robert, Re the De Meulemeester ERF according to the company website it had a 350 bhp fitted.2
0
Intrestingly they also operated a Bedford TM with a 320 bhp Detroit motor.
1
In the LOWLANDS it was very common to buy directly from an exhibition, hence Amsterdam and Brussels exhibitions with new chassis.
I can only speak for Van Steenbergen, Gruwez and De Meulemeester that they all bought quite some chassis (ERF as well as WHITE in all cases)
directly (after some wining and dining from CDB after the exhibition. Probably the same with the quite unusual BEDFORD 6x4 for De Meulemeester.
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
A very well-respected ERF man recently shared with me his calculations re RT versus RTO gearboxes in NGCs, as follows:‘As a datum point, we’ll take a an engine speed of 1800 RPM.
With an RT ‘box, this obviously gives a prop shaft speed of 1800 RPM in top gear.
With 10.00R20 tyres, and an axle ratio of 4.64:1, this gives a road speed of 47.3 MPH.
Substitute the 12.00R20 tyres of the NGC, and the road speed increases to 50.8 MPH.
Substitute the RTO ‘box, together with the 12.00R20 tyres, and the road speed increases to 58.4 MPH.
If we revert to a datum road speed of 50.8 MPH, with the RT ‘box the engine speed (as above) is 1800. With the RTO ‘box, it reduces to 1566 RPM.
In my opinion an RTO ‘box in an NGC would be over-geared for the torque characteristics of the 335 ‘small cam’ 855 series engine.
A ‘big cam’ 855 had very different torque properties, and would possibly suit an RTO gearbox better with the NGC’s axle/wheel size combination.’And as we know, there were only two NGCs with the big-cam 14-litre ■■■■■■■■■ one of which was the last to be despatched in Dec ’77.
Robert
Peak torque 930 lb/ft 1,500 rpm.Also 90 kmh motorway max ?.
Most of the Continent then was 80kph apart from Holland. Robert
That seems fair enough Robert.‘But’ either way around 1,500 rpm at max running speed sounds perfect for the small cam ?.
Although by previous comments,relating to using the engine governor to limit road speeds to the required Euro level ? I thought we were dealing with a lot lower gearing than 1,800 rpm at 50 mph regardless. 
ERF-NGC-European:
[zb]
anorak:
You are in the woods. It is becoming dark. You cannot see, hear or even smell the bear, but you know he will come, for legendary reasons if nothing else.I like to live dangerously
I think it’s good fun trying to see where we might have improved on the original designers’ ideas.It’s an ethos that I must have got firstly from my liking for modified/modifying cars before I ever drove a truck.Ironically the first thing I did with the Jag was chuck out the 2.88 final drive and replace it with a 3.07 and a 5 speed overdrive box.The fact that its also manual and not 3 speed auto is a bonus.
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
A very well-respected ERF man recently shared with me his calculations re RT versus RTO gearboxes in NGCs, as follows:‘As a datum point, we’ll take a an engine speed of 1800 RPM.
With an RT ‘box, this obviously gives a prop shaft speed of 1800 RPM in top gear.
With 10.00R20 tyres, and an axle ratio of 4.64:1, this gives a road speed of 47.3 MPH.
Substitute the 12.00R20 tyres of the NGC, and the road speed increases to 50.8 MPH.
Substitute the RTO ‘box, together with the 12.00R20 tyres, and the road speed increases to 58.4 MPH.
If we revert to a datum road speed of 50.8 MPH, with the RT ‘box the engine speed (as above) is 1800. With the RTO ‘box, it reduces to 1566 RPM.
In my opinion an RTO ‘box in an NGC would be over-geared for the torque characteristics of the 335 ‘small cam’ 855 series engine.
A ‘big cam’ 855 had very different torque properties, and would possibly suit an RTO gearbox better with the NGC’s axle/wheel size combination.’And as we know, there were only two NGCs with the big-cam 14-litre ■■■■■■■■■ one of which was the last to be despatched in Dec ’77.
Robert
Peak torque 930 lb/ft 1,500 rpm.Also 90 kmh motorway max ?.
Most of the Continent then was 80kph apart from Holland. Robert
That seems fair enough Robert.‘But’ either way around 1,500 rpm at max running speed sounds perfect for the small cam ?.
Although by previous comments,relating to using the engine governor to limit road speeds to the required Euro level ? I thought we were dealing with a lot lower gearing than 1,800 rpm at 50 mph regardless.
If IIRC I think we had narrowed the discussion to final drive ratios CF, given that all this pre-dated modern speed limitation; and that engine governance has more to do with engine speed than road speed. We are discussing pretty narrow margins here and from a lorry designed nearly 50 years ago. Still, as you say, it’s fun to tinker 
! Glad bears still like honey . Robert
ERF-Continental:
By the time this genuine NGC has been restored there will be an English drivers’ handbook in the glove compartment!
By the way…the Collin-family still is active in wood-products!
What kind of driver’s handbook had the UK-useres of the NGC in their glove-compartiment?
ERF-Continental:
ERF-Continental:
By the time this genuine NGC has been restored there will be an English drivers’ handbook in the glove compartment!By the way…the Collin-family still is active in wood-products!
What kind of driver’s handbook had the UK-useres of the NGC in their glove-compartiment?
You may be chasing chimera! What kind of driver’s handbook? Absolutely none! The NGC was never intended for use by UK operators. My 3rd book describes the reasons why in some detail. Two years into production, ERF did reluctantly sell NGCs on the domestic market but by then their eyes were on the future with the B-series, which was already on the domestic market and a forthcoming LHD European version was already being conceived - have you forgotten?! Robert
Perhaps you’ve been frightened by the bear(s) but now serious…quite some documents on the NGC WERE in English
and translated for local operators by the relevant importer/dealer as per the documents for Van Steenbergen/Thibaut.
It’s not a silly assumption as also foreign drivers need to get used to this beast…mind 335hp, LHD etc
ERF-Continental:
Perhaps you’ve been frightened by the bear(s) but now serious…quite some documents on the NGC WERE in English
and translated for local operators by the relevant importer/dealer as per the documents for Van Steenbergen/Thibaut.It’s not a silly assumption as also foreign drivers need to get used to this beast…mind 335hp, LHD etc
Well, I hope you’re right! The old adage, ‘Seeing is believing’ has applied to this thread too many times for me to drop my doubts though. Robert
